The Word of God According to Paul

Lutheran021342 · Apr 16, 2012

How do we interpret the New Testament after the Gospels knowing that a majority of it was written by one man and is interspersed with personal dialogue to individuals, makes references to non-included letters, and contains long sections of personal opinion? For example, 1 Corinthians.

DaRev · Apr 16, 2012

Lutheran021342 said:
How do we interpret the New Testament after the Gospels knowing that a majority of it was written by one man and is interspersed with personal dialogue to individuals, makes references to non-included letters, and contains long sections of personal opinion? For example, 1 Corinthians.

Scripture interprets Scripture.

2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness."

The "personal opinion" you speak of is God's personal opinion.

Lutheran021342 · Apr 20, 2012

I am curious then. Paul gives strongly worded advice on things I am pretty sure most Christians do not follow. For example, in first Corinthians an entire chapter is devoted to marriage and most of that is why we should not marry, but remain celibate in God. Obviously if a majority of Christians practiced that, then we would not be here. While he acknowledges some parts of his writing as God given, he does state his own personal opinion several times in his letters. However, he is the only one whose personal opinion we hear. We never hear of Peter's opinion on marriage or Simon's opinion on how the church should interact.

filosofer · Apr 20, 2012

Lutheran021342 said:
I am curious then. Paul gives strongly worded advice on things I am pretty sure most Christians do not follow. For example, in first Corinthians an entire chapter is devoted to marriage and most of that is why we should not marry, but remain celibate in God. Obviously if a majority of Christians practiced that, then we would not be here. While he acknowledges some parts of his writing as God given, he does state his own personal opinion several times in his letters. However, he is the only one whose personal opinion we hear. We never hear of Peter's opinion on marriage or Simon's opinion on how the church should interact.

Actually the other authors do give opinions but they dont state it that way; that is, Peters use of imperatives in 1 Peter 3:1-7 is parallel to what Paul writes about marriage. Also, note the difference in audiences. 1 & 2 Peter and 1 John are written to the church in the broadest sense. Pauls letters are written to specific congregations or individuals. Style would be different.

Also, keep in mind that the issue is whether the letter is apostolic, never whether an author expresses an opinion.

Stephan2050 · Apr 28, 2012

2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness."

He was talking about the Old Testament.

Every letter Paul wrote (that we can find) is included in the NT. Was Paul allowed his personal opinions? I believe every time Paul wrote a letter he was inspired by God, but for you to say God was writing, like the ten commandments, baffles me. I believe Paul would disagree with you. Had Paul stated, "and God told me...", then we would be on the same page for that section.

DaRev · Apr 29, 2012

Stephan2050 said:
2 Timothy 3:16 "All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness."

He was talking about the Old Testament.

Every letter Paul wrote (that we can find) is included in the NT. Was Paul allowed his personal opinions? I believe every time Paul wrote a letter he was inspired by God, but for you to say God was writing, like the ten commandments, baffles me. I believe Paul would disagree with you. Had Paul stated, "and God told me...", then we would be on the same page for that section.

I believe in the Divine inspiration of the Scriptures, both Testaments. Thus, when Paul is specifically referring to the OT, God is by Divine inspiration including all Scriptures, including what Paul is writing.

Shane R · Apr 29, 2012

Much of the NT is an exhaustive exposition of the OT, told in real-time or close to it. This ability to relate the two stories to their one theme is something of a lost art in modern American preaching.

One of the values of the writings of the ancient fathers is their extensive use of OT texts and the way they mingled old and new in a logical and consistent manner. It's an approach to theology that is mind-blowing and nearly incomprehensible to the typical American Christian.

filosofer · Apr 29, 2012

A critical text about the status of New Testament writings, where Pauls writings are put on the same level as the Old Testament.

and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. (2 Peter 3:15-16)

Aibrean · Apr 30, 2012

Lutheran021342 said:
most of that is why we should not marry, but remain celibate in God.

Um...no. It's more of, being celibate isn't a bad thing, but it's not for everyone ("But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another.").

swinkler · May 19, 2012

DaRev said:
I believe in the Divine inspiration of the Scriptures, both Testaments. Thus, when Paul is specifically referring to the OT, God is by Divine inspiration including all Scriptures, including what Paul is writing.

You missed his point. You can believe whatever you want, but the Bible does not say that Paul was referring to his own letters as being "God written". You have decided to believe this, but it is not in scripture.

alexnbethmom · May 19, 2012

swinkler said:
You missed his point. You can believe whatever you want, but the Bible does not say that Paul was referring to his own letters as being "God written". You have decided to believe this, but it is not in scripture.

just curious - which seminary did you go to?

DaRev · May 19, 2012

swinkler said:
You missed his point. You can believe whatever you want, but the Bible does not say that Paul was referring to his own letters as being "God written". You have decided to believe this, but it is not in scripture.

Do you believe in the Trinity, because that isn't mentioned in Scripture either.

Besides, who decides what is Scripture and what isn't? It is the Holy Spirit who guides and leads us to all truth. The Church, through the guidance of the Holy Spirit, determined the canon of the Holy Scriptures. The canon includes Paul's letters. Their very inclusion determines that they are the very word of God.

swinkler · Jun 2, 2012

alexnbethmom said:
just curious - which seminary did you go to?

As luther would say, "why do you ask"?

swinkler · Jun 2, 2012

Read what you just wrote. Yes I believe in the canon, Holy Spirit and the Trinity but this is completely beside the point that Paul understood that he was writing Gods dictated words is in the Bible.

DaRev · Jun 2, 2012

swinkler said:
Read what you just wrote. Yes I believe in the canon, Holy Spirit and the Trinity but this is completely beside the point that Paul understood that he was writing Gods dictated words is in the Bible.

He didn't need to understand. His letters included in the NT canon are God's word, whether he knew it or not. God's word does not at all depend on whether or not Paul knew, understood, or otherwise.

twin.spin · Jun 3, 2012

swinkler said:
Read what you just wrote. Yes I believe in the canon, Holy Spirit and the Trinity but this is completely beside the point that Paul understood that he was writing Gods dictated words is in the Bible.

I would say that Revelation was written by John knowing that he was writing Gods dictated words but I don't know of any OT writer who acknowledged that he was writing God's dictated words at the time.
Because Jesus acknowledges their writings as scripture and so does Peter 2 Peter 1:21 one would tend to conclude that like DaRev said is that God's word does not at all depend on whether or not Paul knew, understood, or otherwise. (or any other OT writer... I might add).

For me, I think there is a very clear danger when a person entertains that some of the NT could be less than God's Word for whatever reason.

PreachersWife2004 · Jun 3, 2012

swinkler said:
You missed his point. You can believe whatever you want, but the Bible does not say that Paul was referring to his own letters as being "God written". You have decided to believe this, but it is not in scripture.

Sure, Paul may not have referred to his letters as being from God, but the bible itself does.

The question has been raised...if you only believe that parts of the bible are God-breathed, how do you pick and choose which parts those might be?

I'd be willing to bet that you are ELCA, no?

bach90 · Jun 3, 2012

swinkler said:
Read what you just wrote. Yes I believe in the canon, Holy Spirit and the Trinity but this is completely beside the point that Paul understood that he was writing Gods dictated words is in the Bible.

I think Paul would have been surprised that his letters were translated into a language called English and spread throughout the world. Paul was apocalyptic in his thinking (1 Thess, his first letter) and it's only in 2 Tim (which I think was written by Paul) when he begins to be concerned about how the Church is going to function when he is gone. Paul did however view his teaching as being authoritative, see the first chapters of Galatians and Romans when he rebukes those who tried to change what he had taught. Paul wrote some letters that aren't in the Canon, and some books were read that aren't in the Canon today (Shepherd of Hermas and the Didache) Luther himself addressed some of the problems, for example, how Jude clearly relies on 2 Peter.

Ultimately, we're delving into matters we can't possibly know. Scripture is the only evidence we have.

filosofer · Jun 3, 2012

One point indirectly about Pauls understanding of what he spoke and wrote:

For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe. (1 Thessalonians 2:13 NAS)

Notice that Paul understood that what he was preaching/teaching the Thessalonian Christians was in fact the Word of God.

swinkler · Jun 15, 2012

filosofer said:
One point indirectly about Pauls understanding of what he spoke and wrote:

For this reason we also constantly thank God that when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you accepted it not as the word of men, but for what it really is, the word of God, which also performs its work in you who believe. (1 Thessalonians 2:13 NAS)

Notice that Paul understood that what he was preaching/teaching the Thessalonian Christians was in fact the Word of God.

Good Scripture. I till do not believe Paul knew he was writing the Bible. I do believe he was on a mission from God.

The Word of God According to Paul

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Senior Veteran

Stephan2050

Guest

Well-Known Member

Priest

Senior Veteran

Honest. Maybe too Honest.

Newbie

Lutheran Chick

Well-Known Member

Newbie

Newbie

Well-Known Member

Trust the LORD and not on your own understanding

by his wounds we are healed

Evangelical Catholic

Senior Veteran

Newbie

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency