The Word Hell

ChristianMuse · Jul 18, 2005

New_Wineskin said:
Well , I disagree that Hell has a major part of the gospel . That would only create people who want salvation from hell and not a relationship with the Lord .

Hell is a major part of the gospel. It is not however the major part of the gospel. A well rounded gospel covers all the basics so that a person's salvation has a good foundation of knowledge upon which to grow. Other major parts of the gospel are Jesus is Saviour and Jesus is Lord. There are many other fundamental principles as well listed in Hebrews.

Jim Woodell · Jul 18, 2005

ChristianMuse said:
Hell is a major part of the gospel. It is not however the major part of the gospel. A well rounded gospel covers all the basics so that a person's salvation has a good foundation of knowledge upon which to grow. Other major parts of the gospel are Jesus is Saviour and Jesus is Lord. There are many other fundamental principles as well listed in Hebrews.

What is the gospel? 1 Cor. 15:1-9. The gospel (good news) is that Christ has died for our sins according to the scriptures, that he was buried and raised again on the third day according to the scriptures. Rom 6:23b, "...the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Hell is what God has redeemed us from through the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus. Hell is not, in any way, a part of the gospel. Many times the Bible and it's overall teaching is confused with the gospel.

The Bible clearly teaches that "The wages of sin is death..." (Rom. 6:23) This death is "hell" that was prepared for the devil and his angels (Matt. 25:41). We all sin and short of God's calling (Rom. 3:23), therefore we all need to be saved. Christ (the sacrifice of himself) is the only source of salvation (John 14:6;Acts 4:12).

Christ never sinned, but he died (Heb. 4:15; 2 Cor. 5:21), therefore he paid a debt he DID NOT OWE. Since I am a sinner, I owe a debt that I CANNOT PAY. Since Christ paid a debt he did not owe, and I owe a debt I cannot pay, the GOOD NEWS is that IF I will accept the debt Christ paid HE will cancel my debt. 1 - 1 = 0

It is also GOOD NEWS that I don't have to rely on or trust in myself for my salvation. God invites us to place all of our burdens on him (1 Pet. 5:6-7).

holo · Jul 18, 2005

The gospel tells of life abundantly, and we tend to talk about hell abundantly.

God > man.

Sketcher · Jul 18, 2005

ChristianMuse said:
Hell is a major part of the gospel. It is not however the major part of the gospel. A well rounded gospel covers all the basics so that a person's salvation has a good foundation of knowledge upon which to grow. Other major parts of the gospel are Jesus is Saviour and Jesus is Lord. There are many other fundamental principles as well listed in Hebrews.

Exactly. So many people toss around the title of Savior - but what are we saved from?

holo · Jul 18, 2005

twistedsketch said:
Exactly. So many people toss around the title of Savior - but what are we saved from?

And what are we saved to?

Sketcher · Jul 18, 2005

But to be saved TO something we need to be saved FROM something. I'm all about telling people about God and heaven just as much as I am about fire and brimstone. You need both for a true and complete Gospel message.

Edouard · Jul 18, 2005

Question: Ever try telling a non-christian that they are going to Hell?
Response: ?

Most likely they will not listen to anything you have to say!

Question: Ever ty telling a non-christian that Jesus died for them?

Response: not sure, but i guarantee you will open the door for conversation!

Evangelism is about building relationships with our community outside of the Church. If our goal is to preach the gospel of hell i really think God would be upset, right now within the church on a technical point the discussion of whether Hell exists yet or not is up for debate.. however there is no debate that it will be an everlasting place of torment.

When you try to make new friends, do you say hey your ugly?
No instead you try and be nice and do something nice for them!

I hope my point is understood and not miscontrsued. Keep in mind Paul says that an infant Christian needs milk to thrive!

Your Brother in Christ David
May we all praise and worship our Lord Jesus Christ!

New_Wineskin · Jul 18, 2005

ChristianMuse said:
Hell is a major part of the gospel.

Ok . Like I said , I disagree with that . But , that's ok .

holo · Jul 18, 2005

People are supposed to see that we are God's children. If you want to be all "biblical", be biblical in taking seriously the part that says people will know we are children of God because we love one another.

Love conquers everything, especially doctrine and intellect.

Entertaining_Angels · Jul 18, 2005

I think it's an important reminder for us. Like the previous poster said, if you tell somebody who is an unbeliever they're going to hell, they'll just look at you crosseyed. Our sermon on Sunday involved discussing hell and it really got me thinking about some unsaved folks I know and what would happen if they died tomorrow. I think it gets us off our complacent little rear ends and is a bit motivating.

I just think because so much of that is discussed in the Bible, maybe there's something to it and we ought to be studying it.

Faith In God · Jul 18, 2005

Edouard said:
Question: Ever try telling a non-christian that they are going to Hell?
Response: ?

Most likely they will not listen to anything you have to say!

Question: Ever ty telling a non-christian that Jesus died for them?

Response: not sure, but i guarantee you will open the door for conversation!

Evangelism is about building relationships with our community outside of the Church. If our goal is to preach the gospel of hell i really think God would be upset, right now within the church on a technical point the discussion of whether Hell exists yet or not is up for debate.. however there is no debate that it will be an everlasting place of torment.

When you try to make new friends, do you say hey your ugly?
No instead you try and be nice and do something nice for them!

I hope my point is understood and not miscontrsued. Keep in mind Paul says that an infant Christian needs milk to thrive!

Your Brother in Christ David
May we all praise and worship our Lord Jesus Christ!

Hellfire preaching does damage to the gospel, but to start off by preaching the cure for a disease the person doesn't think he has is to play a "wicked part" in their damnation, as Charles Spurgeon once said. Don't preach Christ crucified to someone who doesn't understand why He was crucified (for his sins, and he must know what sin is before he can repent of it). To do otherwise is to make a false convert thinking he will be saved when his heart is not repentant toward God (and, if nothing changes, will result in that soul being lost).

Asaph · Jul 18, 2005

holo said:
People are supposed to see that we are God's children. If you want to be all "biblical", be biblical in taking seriously the part that says people will know we are children of God because we love one another.

Love conquers everything, especially doctrine and intellect.

Amen. The Gospel has not even one thing to do with hell, not one. The word itself means the "Good Message". The good message of what? The good message that God so Loves us that He Himself has provided a way for us to be with Him in Love forever. It doesn't have anything even remotely negative about it.

That's what the law is for. It is a tutor to bring us to Christ, but once there, we are not supposed to be under the "tutor" anymore.

It is this man-made notion that we are supposed to be mixing the tutor with the Gospel that prevents us from showing the Love of God to the world by our love of one another.

Love, and let the Law do it's own work. People will demand that you give them the Good News.

Asaph

iglesia · Jul 18, 2005

butxifxnot said:
Hellfire preaching does damage to the gospel, but to start off by preaching the cure for a disease the person doesn't think he has is to play a "wicked part" in their damnation, as Charles Spurgeon once said. Don't preach Christ crucified to someone who doesn't understand why He was crucified (for his sins, and he must know what sin is before he can repent of it). To do otherwise is to make a false convert thinking he will be saved when his heart is not repentant toward God (and, if nothing changes, will result in that soul being lost).

I don't think it is necessarily accurate to say that the non-believer does not understand the disease, especially for the person who, for one reason or another makes the decision to step foot in a church. Before I came to Christ I did not need anyone to tell me about Hell; I was already there and I'm sure I knew as much about it as any Christian out there. The last thing I needed in a message was to be told that God is going to punish you and eternally torment you for your sins. What I needed was to be told that I could be redeemed by humbling myself before God and accepting the gift of His grace.

This is what I needed and I am grateful there are churches that provided it. If, at first, I had gone to a church that felt the need to preach on Hell, I would have continued to live as I was. There may be some people for whom that message is necessary; I'm not one to judge that. But I certainly cannot criticize churches that choose not take that approach.

ChristianMuse · Jul 19, 2005

The thread started out by asking why at church meetings that the mention and teaching about hell is seldom, if ever, heard. The mention of evangelistic reach was mentioned by me and refers to the meeting itself, not the work done in the community. In this reference of within the walls of the church I mentioned the teaching of the gospel and that hell was a major part of the message. My basis for this rests on what is milk? Hebrews 5:12-13 and Hebrews 6:1-2

Hebrews 5:12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

Hebrews 6:1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, 2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

Now those who attend a church filled only with mature Christians who are well practiced in the basics of Christianity certainly can go on to perfection. But if they ever open the door for evangelism the basics will have to be covered once again and that includes the teaching on eternal judgment and hell as its consequence.

Lynn73 · Jul 19, 2005

I don't think it's true that the gospel has nothing to do with hell. Isn't that what Jesus came to save us from? Where we'd be going if we rejected Him?

holo · Jul 19, 2005

If we died with him, how MUCH MORE will we LIVE by him?

Asaph · Jul 19, 2005

Lynn73 said:
I don't think it's true that the gospel has nothing to do with hell. Isn't that what Jesus came to save us from? Where we'd be going if we rejected Him?

The Gospel only has to do with where we go because of Him.

Those who have not yet understood their own end, have no need of the "Good News".

The command to preach the "Good News" was originally given to those who already knew what the "bad news" was.

The "tutor" was already clear to all those to whom He spoke the great commision to. It should be understood that spelling the bad news out to them was unecessary, and the bad news was a "given".

Asaph

ChristianMuse · Jul 20, 2005

Asaph said:
The Gospel only has to do with where we go because of Him.

Those who have not yet understood their own end, have no need of the "Good News".

The command to preach the "Good News" was originally given to those who already knew what the "bad news" was.

The "tutor" was already clear to all those to whom He spoke the great commision to. It should be understood that spelling the bad news out to them was unecessary, and the bad news was a "given".

Asaph

If this was truly the case then I would think that the Gospels would be conspicuously absent of any remark about hell, judgment, and eternal punishment. Since it is found in each of the gospels the understanding of hell, etc. must have been necessary. As for those who had the Gospel originally given to them... did they know all this ( hell etc.) before Jesus revealed the truth to them? I doubt it. Even though Jesus picked them that doesn't mean they already had the knowledge. Like the parables Jesus used... he was always having to explain it to the apostles in planner language because too often they didn't understand what Jesus was saying to the crowds. Of course this misunderstanding of what Jesus was saying was in fulfillment of scripture.

Now if you are saying that just before he ascended to heaven, when the great commission was given to the church, that then they understood the gospel... I would agree with you. Yet the gospel is everything that Jesus revealed. That includes teachings and mentioning of hell, etc.

The question I would like to ask is why do some people treat the mentioning of the word hell within the church walls as anathema? If all you did was read directly from the scriptures you would have to mention the word.

Does one gain knowledge by avoiding the topic?

iglesia · Jul 20, 2005

ChristianMuse said:
Does one gain knowledge by avoiding the topic?

I agree that, in order to understand the solution, one first needs to know that there is a problem. Where I disagree is in whether the lost understand the problem in the first place. Hell is eternal separation from God, right? I assume we can agree to that premise. Before I came to Christ, I was quite aware of what it is like to be seprated from God. In fact, I believe that the only thing that I failed to understand about my situation was that I could not escape the hell that my life had become through death. I thank God that He got to me before I tried to escape on my own. What I am getting at here is that I think the lost understand the problem quite well. What they need to hear is the solution.

I don't think that our ministry should avoid the topic of Hell altogether, but the focus, IMO, should be the solution rather than the problem.

ChristianMuse · Jul 21, 2005

iglesia said:
I agree that, in order to understand the solution, one first needs to know that there is a problem. Where I disagree is in whether the lost understand the problem in the first place. Hell is eternal separation from God, right? I assume we can agree to that premise. Before I came to Christ, I was quite aware of what it is like to be seprated from God. In fact, I believe that the only thing that I failed to understand about my situation was that I could not escape the hell that my life had become through death. I thank God that He got to me before I tried to escape on my own. What I am getting at here is that I think the lost understand the problem quite well. What they need to hear is the solution.

I don't think that our ministry should avoid the topic of Hell altogether, but the focus, IMO, should be the solution rather than the problem.

There are may people who have made the statement that they are already in hell because of life circumstances. This is usually spoken by those who do not believe in a literal hell and (more often than not) do not believe in God. They believe that death brings a release from earthly torment and then there is nothing. Some think that upon death all go to heaven. These are not scriptural responses.

You are correct in one aspect of hell, that it is a separation from God. What is missing is that there is a judgment and those found wanting are delivered to the lake of fire. We stand by faith in the revealed word of God. Those who are not of faith are condemned already because they do not believe. If we hold back part of the truth people will believe the first paragraph.

The problem remains... too many churches do not teach adequately about judgment and hell. Some do not mention it at all.

The question remains... Does one gain knowledge by avoiding the topic?

Why is this important... My people are destroyed for a lack of knowledge. Hosea 4:6

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