The Weak Conscience, Fear, and Freedom and it's limits (Romans 14, 1 Cor 8)

[Halbhh]

This sermon below is helpful to discuss Romans chapter 14 (and 1rst Corinthians 8 also is needed), but there is a particular aspect which I didn't hear brought out enough in the sermon, but is so important, and I'll try to state that:

When you read Romans 14 NIV you will see it's the same principle as in 1rst Corinthians chapter 8, generalized in a helpful way that is going to help us realize this is about every kind of thing from a to z where we might need to give up a freedom for the sake of some individual(s) around us.

We might for the sake of someone(s) need to change our behavior just for that person (or group) -- we may have to sacrifice one of our freedoms -- for now, here where we are at, when someone around us doesn't have a good understanding of that part of our freedom in Christ, and that 'weak' person would be "destroyed" by our exercising our freedom based on our better understanding/knowledge (which they have not yet gained understanding about).

Please read 1 Corinthians 8 NIV and Romans 14 NIV.

(see some examples in the 2nd half of post #7)

The sermon: "A weak conscience is more comfortable with rules than freedom"

A very useful/needed message for both those with fear about what other Christians are doing -- is it dangerous?.... -- and also helpful on the other side for those that have freedom in Christ that scares some around them or that they encounter.

Pastor Colin Smith is long familiar to me by occasional listening on the radio as one of the great teachers to help explain epistles applied to our lives, such as here in this key sermon for people from different backgrounds -- such as here at Christian Forums -- via the scriptures about precisely that: Romans 14 and 1rst Corinthians 8.

At the webpage, you click the player at the top of the screen to hear the audio of Pastor Colin's sermon.

Conscience: Christ Changes How You Evaluate
Conscience: Christ Changes How You Evaluate 2, Part 1 | Unlocking the Bible

 

[com7fy8]

"A weak conscience is more comfortable with rules than freedom"

When people want rules this can be because they feel God expects us to follow those rules.

But it can also be so those people can control others.

So, it is not always because of "weak" conscience, maybe.

 

[Halbhh]

When people want rules this can be because they feel God expects us to follow those rules.

But it can also be so those people can control others.

So, it is not always because of "weak" conscience, maybe.

The sermon does good at covering that and other key things (including crucial things), so I think this sermon can help even those that already have many of the pieces, because it will fill in a missing piece and/or put it all together for us, or even just remind us of some key thing we learned once and haven't remembered lately.

But there is a transcript, for those that prefer to read, I just noticed. I'll put it below.

While I like Colin and listening to him, I'd usually prefer a transcript myself for most things, especially if I don't already know it's high quality myself by my direct hearing/seeing.

hold on a minute...
Ok, actually that was another good preacher, Alastair Begg, where I had a transcript for the current sermon. So, for this one above from Smith, you have to listen instead, but Pastor Smith I think is not hard for someone like you to listen to, but let me know if that's not so! I'm willing to spend 20 minutes working to type stuff (with my typos included probably) if you prefer that, for you.

 

[com7fy8]

He seems to say people can want rules so they can know what to expect. This can be a way of trying to make things predictable. And Jesus had His ways of not being predictable and doing so much and so better than what people could hope and expect and demand.

He seems to be saying people have fear of what can go beyond their rules.

But >

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment." (in 1 John 4:18)

But I would say people don't always feel they have rules because of fear. They can be self-righteous and trying to use rules to use other people, to make them predictable, among other things so it is easier to keep track of them and know what to do to manage them.

Then he talks about habitual sin and how a person's conscience can be degraded so the person keeps on in an habitual sin. Such a person's conscience is not alarmed by the sin. But the blood of Jesus can cleanse someone so the person becomes free of the sin.

Also, there can be the person with a conscience which sounds alarm when it shouldn't. I would say this can happen when people have rules that they do not need, so they get worried when others go against those rules.

There can be rules that no longer are needed. He seems to be saying that things are different for us, once we have moved from Satan's kingdom to God's kingdom.

A problem can be for someone who has lived in a chaste way; so when the person gets married, he or she can still have the habit of staying clear of sexual stuff, but the rules have changed

There is the scrupulous one who worries about rules . . . for oneself and for others.

There are items which the Bible is not clear about; and there are things for which rules are clearly written, in God's word. The things not covered by rules can be things we are free to decide about, ourselves . . . not just making up rules that everyone has to go by, where the Bible does not give rules.

But what if people have knowledge, but their knowledge has them going different ways - - where there are no rules?? There would be things which are "matters of conscience" in such cases.

What matters, I see, is how a person reacts to others who do things differently when it is a conscience matter. What matters the most is that I do not look down on others and get nasty and bitter that others aren't going my way. And do not let others use social pressure fear to control me into cooperating with them.

So, fear might not be a reaction to others not having rules, but it can be a tool used by certain people to control others, I see.

And he talks about idols. He seems to say an idol is no more than what an individual makes it to be. Some know this, others don't.

 

[Halbhh]

He seems to say people can want rules so they can know what to expect. This can be a way of trying to make things predictable. And Jesus had His ways of not being predictable and doing so much and so better than what people could hope and expect and demand.

He seems to be saying people have fear of what can go beyond their rules.

But >

"There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment." (in 1 John 4:18)

But I would say people don't always feel they have rules because of fear. They can be self-righteous and trying to use rules to use other people, to make them predictable, among other things so it is easier to keep track of them and know what to do to manage them.

Then he talks about habitual sin and how a person's conscience can be degraded so the person keeps on in an habitual sin. Such a person's conscience is not alarmed by the sin. But the blood of Jesus can cleanse someone so the person becomes free of the sin.

Also, there can be the person with a conscience which sounds alarm when it shouldn't. I would say this can happen when people have rules that they do not need, so they get worried when others go against those rules.

There can be rules that no longer are needed. He seems to be saying that things are different for us, once we have moved from Satan's kingdom to God's kingdom.

A problem can be for someone who has lived in a chaste way; so when the person gets married, he or she can still have the habit of staying clear of sexual stuff, but the rules have changed

There is the scrupulous one who worries about rules . . . for oneself and for others.

There are items which the Bible is not clear about; and there are things for which rules are clearly written, in God's word. The things not covered by rules can be things we are free to decide about, ourselves . . . not just making up rules that everyone has to go by, where the Bible does not give rules.

But what if people have knowledge, but their knowledge has them going different ways - - where there are no rules?? There would be things which are "matters of conscience" in such cases.

What matters, I see, is how a person reacts to others who do things differently when it is a conscience matter. What matters the most is that I do not look down on others and get nasty and bitter that others aren't going my way. And do not let others use social pressure fear to control me into cooperating with them.

So, fear might not be a reaction to others not having rules, but it can be a tool used by certain people to control others, I see.

And he talks about idols. He seems to say an idol is no more than what an individual makes it to be. Some know this, others don't.

That's good summary of many of the things in the sermon, and also I noticed this is 1/2 of a sermon, and the other half will be broadcast tomorrow morning, and become available then for linking.

It did help me also already here in the first half when Smith explained the background to 1 Corinthians 8 ESV to realize that when someone is worried about CCM generally (contemporary Christian music), with the fear it is all bad (instead of some of it not great, but some of it very good as worship music) -- and one person recently actually worried that all CCM would have demonic influence(!) (say for instance even a song like Amazing Grace), exactly like Smith explains was the worry (from weak understanding) pointed out in 1rst Corinthians chapter 8 -- that was a very helpful insight.

We can see that's so relevant here at CF, for us all.

For many sorts of things that come up here. It's just about everyday here at CF that someone is fearful about something they or others are doing or thinking or listening to, etc.

 

[com7fy8]

one person recently actually worried that all CCM would have demonic influence(!) (say for instance even a song like Amazing Grace)

Well, anyone can just use the "d" word to try to throw something out.

But why does the person say something is demonic? The word can get attention, but how about saying what is your real reason and which scriptures you are going by?

I would not call a lot of Christian music demonic, though I might have some issues about it. I would rather offer God's word and what I have learned, and how this effects my evaluation of a song or artist or group or church.

People being popular means nothing, of course; so please don't even start with, oh so-and-so is very highly praised by big churches and loved by a lot of fans.

One thing I consider is how Jesus says > "Freely you have received, freely give." (in Matthew 10:8) And it does seem there is a lot of music which is being sold, not freely given. And in case Jesus really means He does not want us to sell His ministry to God's own children . . . commercializing music can be a way of "selling love". And things of love are not for sale.

And so, I see how God is able to provide for whoever is truly ministering His love.

So, how about your example of "Amazing Grace"? You seem to find that this song would somehow be immune to being a demonic song, and therefore a contemporary way of singing it couldn't possibly be demonic.

But things can be done the wrong way. Plus, something done right can be taken in a wrong way.

So, what might be a problem with "Amazing Grace"?

I see a few possible things to evaluate. For one thing, it starts with things about "I" and "me" and "my" . . . versus "us" and "our" and "we" like in the "Our Father" prayer which Jesus has given to us. I'm not saying individual singing is bad, but we can have a way of making God's blessing mainly about our own selves. So, we need to stay attentive about this.

And what is the main emphasis of "Amazing Grace"?

I am saved and God has gotten me through things. Yes, He has, but there is much more to Christianity than God taking care of me. And then there is the ending of how we will be praising God forever. So, there is this attention to how we will go to Heaven and how great this is.

But I keep hearing people only talking about how they will go to Heaven, nothing about how to become in our character and how to relate in love so we are prepared to be in Heaven. There is plenty of, Yay! God is taking care of me and hallelujah I am sure to go to Heaven - - but even nothing in song or certain preaching, about how to prepare and all that is required so we are prepared.

And a lot of contemporary music seems to be a lot about how God loves me and is good to me, but nothing about how He is correcting us and maturing us to be ready to share eternity with Jesus.

 

[Halbhh]

But why does the person say something is demonic?

I want to let you know I read your whole post, and yes, 'cheap grace' (as Dietrich Bonhoeffer called it) is a real mistake many make. So, we do need to notice the words of any music we recommend and compare them with scripture. It's true that very many songs, even Amazing Grace, could be mis-used to try to support a cheap grace theology someone has.

Just like Ephesians 2:8-9 can be used that way, if one ignores verse 10.

But there's something else -- something important -- I want to draw your attention to, if you are willing.

You may have reasonably stopped listening closely near the end of the sermon during the several minutes about meat offered to idols....

After all, that part begins with a history lesson, and might seem at first not that relevant, or that you already got it, etc.

But that section which starts at about 17:20 and goes about 5 and 1/2 minutes is really part of the heart of the sermon.

You could hear it by clicking on the time slider to about 17:20 or so to start at that point, and then be patient for a couple of minutes with the history about meat offered to idols, because something very important is coming up, something key.

When someone is fearing that all CCM could be demonic, it's exactly like how some people in Paul's time feared meat offered to idols somehow had a demonic influence.

Exactly the same belief, really. And we learn how/why.

Consider the perfect parallel --> pop and rock and other music has often in the last 60 years been used clearly and strongly to urge people to evils.

That music has been used for evil a lot!

Ergo -- therefore, the mind might think, maybe the music itself is key to how the evil works (instead of the words....).....

Notice that? That's exactly like believing demons were in some foods -- that the foods were the avenue, the way, the demons slipped into someone.

So...for someone that remembers the evils in popular music and has weakness in their full understanding (at this moment in their life), they fear that any music that sounds even a little similar in instruments/musical genre could be demonic.

See it now?

More generally this kind of belief isn't a trivial side thing, or just a very few and rare instances. It's common here in other topics and other ways often at CF that this kind of thinking (in many different topics) comes up in discussions.

Dancing is sometimes very evil (true...), even easily so, so....it must be that all dancing is ultimately a path to the influence in time of the devil....

Telling humorous stories or jokes are often used for evil (true...), such as to slander someone....so....maybe any humor/laughter tends towards evil, like a slippery slope.

Dating someone can often be evil in promiscuous sex (true...)....so....one should suspect all who date are planning future evils, if not already doing them.

Maybe my examples are too easy.

Here's a harder one.

Sometimes people take communion without really regarding Christ and His suffering for us (true....)....so.....maybe all non-Catholic type communion is ineffectual or even evil.... (or some will outright suggest those non Catholic styles of communion mean little or nothing, have no power, and so on)

See, this general thing is a very serious problem for Christians in general.

I'm already helped even just with this first insight in this first 1/2 of Smith's sermon, but also will listen tomorrow in case he has more to offer about how to handle it, even though I think I did well recently when faced with this in a recent thread.

 

[Halbhh]

Well, anyone can just use the "d" word to try to throw something out.

But why does the person say something is demonic? The word can get attention, but how about saying what is your real reason and which scriptures you are going by?

I would not call a lot of Christian music demonic, though I might have some issues about it. I would rather offer God's word and what I have learned, and how this effects my evaluation of a song or artist or group or church.

People being popular means nothing, of course; so please don't even start with, oh so-and-so is very highly praised by big churches and loved by a lot of fans.

One thing I consider is how Jesus says > "Freely you have received, freely give." (in Matthew 10:8) And it does seem there is a lot of music which is being sold, not freely given. And in case Jesus really means He does not want us to sell His ministry to God's own children . . . commercializing music can be a way of "selling love". And things of love are not for sale.

And so, I see how God is able to provide for whoever is truly ministering His love.

So, how about your example of "Amazing Grace"? You seem to find that this song would somehow be immune to being a demonic song, and therefore a contemporary way of singing it couldn't possibly be demonic.

But things can be done the wrong way. Plus, something done right can be taken in a wrong way.

So, what might be a problem with "Amazing Grace"?

I see a few possible things to evaluate. For one thing, it starts with things about "I" and "me" and "my" . . . versus "us" and "our" and "we" like in the "Our Father" prayer which Jesus has given to us. I'm not saying individual singing is bad, but we can have a way of making God's blessing mainly about our own selves. So, we need to stay attentive about this.

And what is the main emphasis of "Amazing Grace"?

I am saved and God has gotten me through things. Yes, He has, but there is much more to Christianity than God taking care of me. And then there is the ending of how we will be praising God forever. So, there is this attention to how we will go to Heaven and how great this is.

But I keep hearing people only talking about how they will go to Heaven, nothing about how to become in our character and how to relate in love so we are prepared to be in Heaven. There is plenty of, Yay! God is taking care of me and hallelujah I am sure to go to Heaven - - but even nothing in song or certain preaching, about how to prepare and all that is required so we are prepared.

And a lot of contemporary music seems to be a lot about how God loves me and is good to me, but nothing about how He is correcting us and maturing us to be ready to share eternity with Jesus.

I just added some examples, including a harder one, in my post just above (I tend to edit to add things), and don't want you to miss it if you already read the post, so please look in the last 1/3 of that post again in that case to see that harder example.

 

[Halbhh]

The 2nd half of the sermon is available now:

Conscience: Christ Changes How You Evaluate 2, Part 2 | Unlocking the Bible

 

[Halbhh]

But it can also be so those people can control others.

Pastor Smith spends a few minutes on exactly this, and all related aspects, and from both sides.

It's really helpful to get clear on what is best for both sides here, because even if we get it right sometimes or generally, we might still one day trip up of course in a new situation that isn't as easy/clear to us, and that could sometimes hurt or even at worst case (less often but could happen) destroy someone.

But if we have a clear idea what is best to do, then that will help us, since 'conscience' is as Smith points out is controlled (in significant part) by what one thinks/understands.

 

[Soyeong]

"A weak conscience is more comfortable with rules than freedom"

A very useful/needed message for both those with fear about what other Christians are doing -- is it dangerous?.... -- and also helpful on the other side for those that have freedom in Christ that scares some around them or that they encounter.

Pastor Colin Smith is long familiar to me by occasional listening on the radio as one of the great teachers to help explain epistles applied to our lives, such as here in this key sermon for people from different backgrounds -- such as here at Christian Forums -- via the scriptures about precisely that: Romans 14 and 1rst Corinthians 8.

At the webpage, you click the player at the top of the screen to hear the audio of Pastor Colin's sermon.

Conscience: Christ Changes How You Evaluate
Conscience: Christ Changes How You Evaluate 2, Part 1 | Unlocking the Bible

So then strong consciences are more comfortable with anarchy? The reason why the land of the free is not also the land where there are no laws is because we can use our freedom to do unconscionable things to others, so true freedom is not the freedom to do whatever we want, but rather it is the freedom to do what we ought. The goal of a good legislature is not to create rules that hinder our freedoms, but to to create rules that enhance them, and no one knows better than God how we ought to live, so in regard to His law, we need to be like violins who trust Him to tie down our strings in order to make music. In Titus 2:14, Christ gave himself to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people of his own possession who are zealous for doing good works, so the freedom that we have in Christ is not the freedom from God's law, but the freedom from lawlessness.

The topic of Romans 14 stated in verse 1 is in regard to how to handle disputable matters of opinion. Where God has given a command, human opinion must yield, so whether or not we choose to obey God's law is a matter of obedience to God, but where or not we choose to do something for God has given no command is a disputable matter of opinion, so we should be careful not to mistake something that was only against following man's opinions as being against obeying God's commands. Case in point, in Romans 14:2-3, Paul spoke about those who chose to eat only vegetables and God has not commanded to eat only vegetables, so whether or not someone chooses to do that is a disputable matter of opinion, and what Paul was seeking to quell in this chapter was passing judgement on each other over opinions. Paul was not suggesting that we are free to commit adultery, theft, murder, rape, kidnapping, or disobey any of God's other commands just as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok, but rather that was only said in regard to issues that are disputable matters of opinion, and in that regard we should not violate those with weaker consciences that won't let them do what they would otherwise be permitted to do.

 

[BobRyan]

"A weak conscience is more comfortable with rules than freedom"

possibly -- but that is not the point of 1 Cor 8 or Rom 14.


In 1 Cor 8 the pagans who had no knowledge of God prior to converting to Christianity are "weak" in faith and the Jews are said to be "strong".

"Now concerning food sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes one conceited, but love edifies people. 2 If anyone thinks that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know; 3 but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.

4 Therefore, concerning the eating of food sacrificed to idols, we (Jewish Christians) know that an idol is nothing at all in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us (Jews) there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

7 However, not all people have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, (pagan gentiles newly converted to Christianity) eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled​

 

[Halbhh]

possibly -- but that is not the point of 1 Cor 8 or Rom 14.


In 1 Cor 8 the pagans who had no knowledge of God prior to converting to Christianity are "weak" in faith and the Jews are said to be "strong".

"Now concerning food sacrificed to idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge makes one conceited, but love edifies people. 2 If anyone thinks that he knows anything, he has not yet known as he ought to know; 3 but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.

4 Therefore, concerning the eating of food sacrificed to idols, we (Jewish Christians) know that an idol is nothing at all in the world, and that there is no God but one. 5 For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, 6 yet for us (Jews) there is only one God, the Father, from whom are all things, and we exist for Him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we exist through Him.

7 However, not all people have this knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, (pagan gentiles newly converted to Christianity) eat food as if it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience, being weak, is defiled​

Hi Bob, 1rst Corinthians 8 is a very helpful chapter that helps show how extremely important it is for us to follow the general rule also laid out in Romans chapter 14, which after one has read it very carefully, with great listening, one could then remember after that complete reading in a more simple summary form, only after realizing it's general, not about just a particular example or 3.

When you read Romans 14 NIV you will see it's the same principle as in 1rst Corinthians chapter 8, generalized in a helpful way that is going to help us realize this is about every kind of thing from a to z where our freedom might need to be curtailed (sacrificed) for now, here where we are at, when someone around us doesn't have a good understanding and would be "destroyed" by our exercising our freedom based on our better understanding/knowledge (which they have not yet risen up to).

 

[Halbhh]

So then strong consciences are more comfortable with anarchy?

Why no, that's completely unrelated it seems to me. Anarchy we all would agree isn't great, mere chaos typically, where crime increases....

While we tend to agree I recall, you and I, already about the unconditional requirement for us to follow the "law of Christ" (as said in Galatians) and such, here the topic is related or entirely about really what is in Romans chapter 14. (which indeed we must follow in order to be following the law of Christ!...)

For the sake of clear discussion, could I ask if you have recently read Romans 14 NIV and also 1rst Corinthians 8 fully through in a recent time (last few years) ? (if not, they can be read in just a few minutes) It may be we entirely agree, as I could not find anything in your post that was mistaken. I'm replying only out of some concern about the mysterious first sentence being hard to guess at what you were asking/thinking. Were you thinking I'd make the most simple mistake even a 10 yr old already would not, to imagine Romans 14 would allow us to ignore Christ's commands? Well, of course I would not. (And of course Romans 14 is in reality an application of Matthew 7:12 obviously...) Perhaps though you had some other point in mind?

 

[Halbhh]

Paul was not suggesting that we are free to commit adultery, theft, murder, rape, kidnapping, or disobey any of God's other commands just as long as we are convinced in our own minds that it is ok, but rather that was only said in regard to issues that are disputable matters of opinion, and in that regard we should not violate those with weaker consciences that won't let them do what they would otherwise be permitted to do.

Indeed so, but notably, the more pertinent example in Romans chapter 14 isn't about opinions like what food is ok, of course, but a more pointed issue that even comes up today for some, the Sabbath, which no doubt has occasionally for some due to their weak understandings become a real stumbling block for them about what others are doing.

But the more general value of Romans 14 isn't about how to keep the Sabbath for most of us (not knowing anyone around us confused on that topic), of course, but instead what applies to all of us, every person, in our lives in a more immediate and urgent way... The generalization.

About the commonplace all the time everywhere around us stuff.

 

[BobRyan]

When you read Romans 14 NIV you will see it's the same principle as in 1rst Corinthians chapter 8,

I agree.

But in 1 Cor 8 we get more 'detail' as to why one is considered weak. In 1 Cor 8 we are told that the strong ones are the Jewish Christians with a deep background and history in the Word of God and who knew that there is no such thing as "competing gods" vs the True God because there is only one God in existence.

And the weak ones are the newly converted pagans who are used to the worship of false gods.

In 1 Cor 8 "the rule" that the so-called weak in faith are following - is the one in Acts 15 and in the OT regarding food offered to idols. The NT Christian church said specifically to be sure the gentiles were following that rule. But Paul then overrides it in 1 Cor 8 in the case of Jewish Christians saying that Jewish Christians would not be harmed at all by eating food offered to idols - only that they would need to be careful lest a gentile Christian should see them doing it - and the gentile conscience be wounded because for a gentile newly converted from paganism and the worship of false gods -- this would be serving another god.

So in 1 Cor 8 -- Paul views the gentile Christians as being "weak in the faith" due to their recent pagan life style/worship/beliefs and he regards Jewish Christians as strong in faith since they already had a Bible-based heritage before becoming Christians - in the one true God of the Bible.

 

[BobRyan]

Indeed so, but notably, the more pertinent example in Romans chapter 14 isn't about opinions like what food is ok, of course, but a more pointed issue that even comes up today for some, the Sabbath, which no doubt has occasionally for some due to their weak understandings become a real stumbling block for them about what others are doing.

But the more general value of Romans 14 isn't about how to keep the Sabbath for most of us (not knowing anyone around us confused on that topic), of course, but instead what applies to all of us, every person, in our lives in a more immediate and urgent way... The generalization.

About the commonplace all the time everywhere around us stuff.

Neither 1 Cor 8 nor Rom 14 mention the weekly Sabbath at all. It is not found even once in those two chapters.

first some background for Rom 14 --

In addition to the background we get in 1 Cor 8 -- we have Gal 4.

Gal 4 condemns the observance of even one pagan holy day a follows

Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave, although he is owner of everything, 2 but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. 3 So we too, when we were children, were held in bondage under the elementary principles of the world. 4 But when the fullness of the time came, God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5 so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons and daughters. 6 Because you are sons, God has sent the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying out, “Abba! Father!” 7 Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
8 However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are not gods.​

Gentiles - former pagans - at one time did not know the one true God and were enslaved to those things which are thought to be gods - but in fact are no gods at all. 1 Cor 8 also made this point.

9 But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elementary principles, to which you want to be enslaved all over again? 10 You meticulously observe days and months and seasons and years. 11 I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.​

Gentile converts were reverting back to some pagan practices in their observances of certain pagan days, seasons, months, years.

The point is - Paul does not condone observing every day of the year as a holy day.

=========================

So now Rom 14

Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2 For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4 Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems/observes one day above another; another esteems/observes every day. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.​

Notice a few things in Rom 14 - since it is only referencing the Bible approved annual holy days of Lev 23 it does not condemn any observance of any of them - at all.

1. It does not mention a case where someone esteems/observes no day.
2. It places the one who is strong first, then the case of the weak one - in the case of foods.
3. It might also be doing that in the case of observing Bible approved days of Lev 23.

In any case it cannot be made to affirm what Gal 4 condemned when it comes to the observance of days of the year.​

 

[Halbhh]

Neither 1 Cor 8 nor Rom 14 mention the weekly Sabbath at all.

You may want to read more carefully! (that is, with a more listening attitude)

Also, if it seems to me we, you and I, are only becoming contentious about Romans 14 itself, then we'd have to stop the discussion, per the first verse. (or if you like instead a more clear one: Romans 12:18 If it is possible on your part, live at peace with everyone.)

 

[BobRyan]

You may want to read more carefully! (that is, with a more listening attitude)

Also, if it seems to me we, you and I, are only becoming contentious about Romans 14 itself, then we'd have to stop the discussion, per the first verse. (or if you like instead a more clear one: Romans 12:18 If it is possible on your part, live at peace with everyone.)

I am ok with the Bible details I mentioned above and I am happy to agree that you have free will and can choose as you wish. I just like having the related Bible details for the chapters we discuss posted as part of the thread - so the readers have full disclosure of the details that relate to what we are saying. Each person will choose as they wish of course - and I am just fine with that.

 

[Halbhh]

I am ok with the Bible details I mentioned above and I am happy to agree that you have free will and can choose as you wish. I just like having the related Bible details for the chapters we discuss posted as part of the thread - so the readers have full disclosure of the details that relate to what we are saying. Each person will choose as they wish of course - and I am just fine with that.

Ok, about the Sabbath, we know it's an issue for 1rst century Jews of course, as shows up many times in the New Testament, and perhaps it's from seeing it many other places that I instantly realize what Paul is bringing up including the Sabbath (and perhaps in a delicate way by not using the provocative word Sabbath to the Jewish readers of this epistle, so as to better help them avoid falling back into the same old mental habits or arguing it among themselves...?) , there in verse 5.

Romans 14:5 One person regards a certain day above the others, while someone else considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

being so much alike in wording to other moments about observing special days, most key being the Sabbath, like

Colossians 2:16 Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath.

Now, Paul didn't have to use the Sabbath as a particular example. It's only 1 example, and there are others.

But it's a little helpful to us to see how this general rule of Romans ch 14 isn't about the particular examples that seem small to us today...but about big issues they divided themselves on!

In other words, today, when Christians divide themselves about their issues, such as the age of the Earth, or whether communion is actually the real precise of Christ in the elements, and more -- they are breaking the rule to us in Romans ch 14.