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the virgin army

candle glow

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This is part 2 of a series of studies written by a friend of mine, which deals with the 144k mentioned in Revelation 7. I'm currently having a chat with a friend about celibacy (and the reasons for it) and felt inspired to post this. If anyone is interested in part 1 or part 2 pm me.

For anyone who is interested in the topic of being single for God, I also have some studies called "why are you single", "without guile", "no effeminate person", and "the trouble with trouble".

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With regard to the Virgin Army of 144,000, I would like to make some comments about the concept of literal physical virgins as opposed to spiritual virgins. At the same time that we need to take more seriously the call to be physical virgins, we must be careful to keep it in proper perspective to the spiritual nature of this army.

Remember that what God is most looking for is a "holy" church. Holiness includes far more than sexual chastity. There are some psychologically screwed up guys who hate women because of their own sinfulness. I think Jack the Ripper or some other famous serial killer was supposed to have been like that, always killing prostitutes or women he thought were prostitutes, because he wanted to put the blame on them for his own lust.

As Tolstoy pointed out, when the Bible says, "Who are you that judges another for committing adultery when you yourselves are guilty of murder," it was probably talking about the spirit of the Pharisees who brought the woman caught in adultery to Jesus and wanted to stone her to death. Obviously not many people are guilty of what we traditionally think of as murder; but because Jesus taught that hate was as bad as murder, he was showing that just hating an adulterous person, and feeling self-righteous about it is as bad as murder, and it is worse than the adultery itself. By all means, hate the Jezebel spirit, but don't hate women.

Jesus gave murder a spiritual meaning that is quite different to the traditional understanding we have of it. And he did the same with adultery, which is something that we must take into consideration when trying to understand the principles of the Virgin Army. Read Luke 16:12-19 and you will see that sandwiched in between all this talk about greed is a sudden reference to adultery and divorce. I won't go into other supports for this theory just now, but I believe that what Jesus is talking about here is spiritual adultery, which comes when someone turns from Christ to the Beast, or stops being the Bride and becomes the Harlot, chasing after money instead of trusting God.

Obviously there is a connection between the literal and the spiritual; and so I believe there is a connection between being literal physical virgins and being spiritual virgins. But the spiritual meaning is the most important one to get. Sex is not the root of all evil; whereas the love of money is. It is just that the devil will use sex to sidetrack us when he cannot get to us through greed. The husband does not have to be greedy if he is being controlled sexually by a wife who is greedy.

Ephesians 5:25-27 says that Christ loved the Church and died for it, and he also gave it the truth in his teachings, so "that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish."

Obviously none of us is "holy and without blemish" in our own strength. To become such, we must be "washed". Revelation 14:4-5 says of the 144,000, "These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the first fruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile; for they are without fault before the throne of God." The word I want you to most notice here is that they were redeemed. In other words, they were "bought back" from some fallen state.

Our traditional understanding of virginity is that once you have lost it, you have lost it and you can never get it back. This is not necessarily the case with spiritual things. Let's face it, none of us (not even those of us who are sexual virgins) is "worthy" to be part of the 144,000 because none of us is perfect. But the Lamb can make us worthy in his strength. He can make us "virgins" too, even if we were not virgins before undergoing his regeneration.

Also notice that the verse says that these people were "not defiled by women". Yet the Bible says that "the marriage bed is undefiled". (Hebrews 13:4 ) Someone who has only had sex with his wife is not defiled according to that passage, yet he is "defiled" by no longer being a virgin if we are to take the usual approach to the word virgin in Revelation 14:4 . This is a strong argument for the theory that the virgin army may include married people. I also think that it includes women, as the word "men" is usually used in the Bible in the sense of all people. But that is another topic, which we will not go into at this time.

Jesus told a parable about his second coming, which talked of wise virgins and foolish virgins who were waiting for him to come and for the wedding to begin. This is the feminine equivalent of the Virgin Army. In The Revelation, these virgins are spoken of as one body. They are called the Bride of Christ, or the Church. Revelation 19:7-9 says, "Let us be glad and rejoice and give honour to God, for the marriage of the Lamb is come and his wife has made herself ready. To her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb."

In Revelation 21:2 , John says, "I saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband." In verse 9, he says that an angel says to him, "Come hither and I will show you the Bride, the Lamb's wife." Strangely, what follows is a description of a city. Most of us have come to think of the city as a physical city where we will live and walk. But actually the city only symbolizes the bride, the church, the virgin army... call it what you like. The Revelation talks of twelve tribes and of a city, and in both cases, it gives measurements that are all based on twelves, 144, and thousands.

Before I end this study, I should confess that I am not 100% confident that technical non-virgins (e.g. married people) can be part of the Virgin Army. It is just a theory. However, in Revelation 7:9 there is mention of a second group "which no man could number" whose robes have also been made white in the blood of the Lamb. It could be that this second group includes those who are won over to Jesus by the testimony of the Virgin Army during the Great Tribulation; or it could be all those through the ages who have been faithful to Christ. Or there may, in fact, be two separate groups, one of which does not qualify for the Virgin Army (possibly because they have engaged in sex), but which has also been made holy by the blood of the Lamb.

I just feel that it is important that we understand that no one is exempt from needing the blood of the Lamb. Just being sexually "virgin" does not mean a person does not need the grace of God for areas of sin in their lives.

We all need to repent, be forgiven, and be recreated into new people who are spotless and holy before God. Certainly a message of "holiness" needs to be preached today more than ever, as people are abusing the concept of God's grace more than ever. And sexual immorality is one of the most obvious visible results of the false teaching in the church about God's grace.

So the hard line of the virgin army (and injunctions against divorce and remarriage) will be an important part of returning to the standards that God demands. These teachings are extremely unpopular. But in taking this hard line, let us also be careful that we do not make sexual virginity the only standard by which we delineate between the good guys and the not so good guys. There is a great deal in the teachings of Jesus to suggest that the real delineation has more to do with our attitudes toward love and money.

God bless you all, and stay faithful to the Lamb... whithersoever he goeth!
 

jenjen486

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I am convinced that the Lord is only ever concerned about the condition of our hearts. If we are a pure bride before Him inwardly. The Lord wouldnt allow anyone to be given into marriage if that would somehow make them impure. It is what comes out of a man that makes him impure.
 
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Radagast

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I am convinced that the Lord is only ever concerned about the condition of our hearts. If we are a pure bride before Him inwardly. The Lord wouldnt allow anyone to be given into marriage if that would somehow make them impure. It is what comes out of a man that makes him impure.

Yes, the idea that marriage is "impure" is the heresy of gnosticism.
 
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CounselorForChrist

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I really dislike christians who fight about "The bible says to stay single" or "The bible says to be married!". Both are right to some degree. The bible teachs us to decide what we feel is best. For some being single makes them feel like they have more time for God. For other they feel like being with a spouse makes them have more time with God because you have someone with you always, someone that teaches you, and you them.

Remember, God created marriage. He also created two diffrent sexes. He wouldn't create all this if we were meant to all be single. I personally can't be single, its to hard. When my fiace is with me we feel so blessed that we give to God even more. God is the center of our (soon to be) marriage. We (as the bible says) are bond servants to each other. To the man God saids the mans body is not his own, but his wifes. And to the wife he said the wifes body is not her own, but her husbands.

Marriage while partially is about love, in biblical terms its more about two vessels becoming one, one flesh. This way we can serve together and be even stronger! Again single or married is an option for the pesron to decide.
 
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Avniel

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I am convinced that the Lord is only ever concerned about the condition of our hearts. If we are a pure bride before Him inwardly. The Lord wouldnt allow anyone to be given into marriage if that would somehow make them impure. It is what comes out of a man that makes him impure.

Yes I agree why would God tell people in the bible to marry if they were impure that implies that God creates impure unions which is impossible

Be fruitful and multiply
 
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candle glow

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I really dislike christians who fight about "The bible says to stay single" or "The bible says to be married!".

Hi freaky, long time no see.

Do you see someone fighting about it? :) Although I agree we should not be fighting, I think different people have different understandings of what it means to fight. The same applies to "argue", "debate", "manipulate", and "discuss".

What I'd like to do here is discuss, but if you've started out already assuming that this thread is a fight, then there may not be much point in even trying.

I'll give it a go anyway and see what happens.

Both are right to some degree. The bible teachs us to decide what we feel is best.

I think there are times when God wants us to make decisions based on what we feel is right; it's a good way to exercise our discernment. However, there are also times when God is very clear that he knows what's best for us and he calls the shots.

The issue of staying single for God vs getting married is a bit of both. Jesus made wine at a wedding. Paul made it clear that marriage is not forbidden. However, he also made it clear that staying singe IS the superior option, not because marriage is wrong, but because with marriage comes specific limitations.

Are you familiar with the reasons Paul gave for why he felt it would be better for Christians to stay single?
 
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candle glow

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HI Jen,

I am convinced that the Lord is only ever concerned about the condition of our hearts. If we are a pure bride before Him inwardly. The Lord wouldnt allow anyone to be given into marriage if that would somehow make them impure. It is what comes out of a man that makes him impure.

I don't see that we can make a rule one way or the other about it, since the kind of purity you are talking about really depends on the individual's relationship to God and their motivations.

For example, I am celibate, but I do not teach that people should be celibate. I tell them what Jesus and Paul said about celibacy and that it is the superior option when it comes to serving God, based on the reasons Paul listed.

Whether that person decides to remain celibate or get married is between them and God because only God knows what that person is able to handle.

When Jesus talked about celibacy, he included the little disclaimer "he who is able to receive it, let him receive it". (matthew 19:10-12) That is something that only God and the individual can work out.

However, I think there really are times when a marriage can be impure, based on the reasons for why the individuals get married. I have a friend who wanted to marry a woman. He felt that God was telling him not to marry her, but because he loved her he married her anyway.

A year later she declared that his religious beliefs were too extreme and that she did not want to participate in them anymore. She moved into her own place and he would not divorce her. But, because the church she attended also forbid a woman to divorce her husband (except in the case of adultery) she could not divorce him either.

Over the years they tried to reconcile, but it always came down to him forsaking his beliefs for her and that was something he was not prepared to do. It made him miserable, though.

In that situation, I think one could make a fairly good case that the marriage was "impure" because the guy knew he was disobeying God (for his own personal situation and not marriage in general).

There is no rule which can say all marriage is pure or all marriage is wrong.
 
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CounselorForChrist

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Oh sorry I was saying this thread was a fight. I was just stating I've seen past threads lead to people getting angry and fighting over this. Which is silly. Everyone should agree to disagree and if they want to debat eit then it should be done civily. After all we are all brothers and sisters in Christ. :)

However, he also made it clear that staying singe IS the superior option, not because marriage is wrong, but because with marriage comes specific limitations.
Well yeah. It is the superior option according to him. Which is obvious because it gives you more time to focus on God. But it still also leaves the option of marriage open since its not ruled out.

The only part where it gest confusing is when we are told to go forth and mutiply. I'm am not sure how being is the best option when God at the same times command we mutiply. Of course most people I know who are married do so because they want to mutiply like the bible says, although I am pretty sure that was old testament stuff.

I believe what Paul way saying is we should examine ourselves to see about staying single because its the best way to go. But if we feel we can't stay single, then we should marry. And of course an example is if we have a sexual thoughts then it is better that we marry then live in sin as I believe he also said.

I also think it becomes confusing because alot of people can't determine if they should stay single or not. Its why there are not as many christian singles as they are married ones. And in todays world where sex is a big thing we see, I think it ruins many minds and hence its why we end up marrying.

Admiteddly the bible does talk about being single alot. But at the same time it also talkes about marriage alot. So as stated people just need to examine their lives and determine what the Holy Spirit is telling them to do.
 
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candle glow

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I'm am not sure how being is the best option when God at the same times command we mutiply. Of course most people I know who are married do so because they want to mutiply like the bible says, although I am pretty sure that was old testament stuff.

Yes, you are correct that the teaching about multiplying is an old testament teaching. At the time when that command was given, the world had very few people, but you cannot say that anymore. The world is brimming with people, and Jesus said that now is the time when people should be trying to stay single for God.

It's not a punishment to stay single, or fanatical or even all that special. It's just that the emphasis has shifted.

I believe what Paul way saying is we should examine ourselves to see about staying single because its the best way to go. But if we feel we can't stay single, then we should marry. And of course an example is if we have a sexual thoughts then it is better that we marry then live in sin as I believe he also said.

I mostly agree with your assessment here. I think this phrase, "we can't stay single" is what needs to be examined very carefully. Why can't we stay single?

What are the reasons for staying single and what do we gain from it? Being single for God isn't something that just happens naturally. It takes a lot of discipline and consideration.

When we get worn down and start feeling an emotional hankering for "that special someone" we need take some time out and think about what it is that God wants.

At times I feel that God may actually encourage people to get married, because he can see that the union of two people may create a more effective force for the Kingdom of Heaven than what would occur if the two stayed single.

But those cases should be the exceptions, and not the rule.

I also think it becomes confusing because alot of people can't determine if they should stay single or not. Its why there are not as many christian singles as they are married ones. And in todays world where sex is a big thing we see, I think it ruins many minds and hence its why we end up marrying.

Yeah, a lot of people think they cannot stay single, because they cannot go without sex. But this is only a problem when people teach that masturbation is a sin.

We cannot become asexual through sheer will power, and neither has God asked us to. Masturbation is the release valve for sexual pressure in those who try to stay single for God.

Even those who teach that it is a sin cannot keep up with that kind of standard, simply because their bodies are not made that way.
 
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jenjen486

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Candleglow- Whenever I read your responses to my posts, I'm in agreement with exactly what you are saying, but I always have to clarify. I pray that the Lord gives me the words to make my posts more clear... I meant that just b/c Paul said it is better not to marry, it doesnt mean that someone who does marry, has an impure heart. But, yes, sadly there are many marriages that happen when the two are unequally yoked. As you were saying about your friend, sadly I have seen that happen many times. Mostly a man coming to things in the Lord, and the wife manipulating him into turning from what the truth really is. I hate that it is in our fleshly nature to do such things! A desire i have always had is to have a husband...which can be completely impure if I do it against what the Lord is allowing. But, if I have that burning desire and God has made it clear that I need to be given over into marriage then there is nothing impure about it...as long as I have the heart of only wanting to encourage and build up that man in the faith. So it is not wrong to marry but it is wrong to marry against what the Lord has ordained. I hope that clears things up. i thank you once again for wanting to reason the Word out and not allowing things to slip by that seem to be in error.
 
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candle glow

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Hi Jen,

Struggles will always be there, especially emotional struggles. I think people should give as much effort as they possibly can to staying single, but if that desire can't be controlled, then they should ask God for the best possible match and wait for it.

I've prayed that prayer at times before when I felt particularly tempted, but deep down I feel that God wants me to stay single and I believe he knows what's best for me.

It's very much an individual situation where there really can be no rule which covers everyone. Like I said, I don't teach that people should remain single or get married, but I do teach the benefits of staying single.

Anyway, I gotta go or I'm gon be late!
 
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CounselorForChrist

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I think this phrase, "we can't stay single" is what needs to be examined very carefully. Why can't we stay single?
Oh I just meant (as see below in another answer) that its harder to stay single because or the amount of work required. More so in this world thats getting worse by the minute. Just being a teen and avoiding peer pressure should make a single life really hard to do. BUt those who manage it, more power to them!

At times I feel that God may actually encourage people to get married, because he can see that the union of two people may create a more effective force for the Kingdom of Heaven than what would occur if the two stayed single.
Well yeah. I think he does to, especially as the world around us falls into more sin. Being with someone works well so you can help each other grow and avoid worldly influences. I am getting married soon and while I used to think about thigns like sex when I was younger, now thats the least of my worries. Now I just want to be with a good christian woman that really believe in God, loves him, fears him, prays, goes to church...etc.

Someone that will be one with me, and I with her. Luckily I found her and she happes to be a pastors daughter. And shes filipino! Filipino women are considered the most loyal women to an honest man and they also VERY much love Christ. So I am very happy God gave me her. Matter of fact I really believe we are going to save thousands of life with our testimonies. God is putting it in me that we will be doing som big ministry or missionary work. I have faith in whatever it is we are to do!

Masturbation is the release valve for sexual pressure in those who try to stay single for God.
Exactly. I know myself have to use it to avoid pent up urges. Its probably what kept me a virgin until I was 27.
 
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Ariadne_GR

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Yes, you are correct that the teaching about multiplying is an old testament teaching. At the time when that command was given, the world had very few people, but you cannot say that anymore. The world is brimming with people, and Jesus said that now is the time when people should be trying to stay single for God.

It's not a punishment to stay single, or fanatical or even all that special. It's just that the emphasis has shifted.



I mostly agree with your assessment here. I think this phrase, "we can't stay single" is what needs to be examined very carefully. Why can't we stay single?

What are the reasons for staying single and what do we gain from it? Being single for God isn't something that just happens naturally. It takes a lot of discipline and consideration.

When we get worn down and start feeling an emotional hankering for "that special someone" we need take some time out and think about what it is that God wants.

At times I feel that God may actually encourage people to get married, because he can see that the union of two people may create a more effective force for the Kingdom of Heaven than what would occur if the two stayed single.

But those cases should be the exceptions, and not the rule.



Yeah, a lot of people think they cannot stay single, because they cannot go without sex. But this is only a problem when people teach that masturbation is a sin.

We cannot become asexual through sheer will power, and neither has God asked us to. Masturbation is the release valve for sexual pressure in those who try to stay single for God.

Even those who teach that it is a sin cannot keep up with that kind of standard, simply because their bodies are not made that way.

I really enjoy your comments on this issue. Well said!
 
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candle glow

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I really enjoy your comments on this issue. Well said!

Thanks ariadne. :blush1:

Well yeah. I think he does to, especially as the world around us falls into more sin. Being with someone works well so you can help each other grow and avoid worldly influences. I am getting married soon and while I used to think about thigns like sex when I was younger, now thats the least of my worries. Now I just want to be with a good christian woman that really believe in God, loves him, fears him, prays, goes to church...etc.

I think something people in our shallow social world need to learn is that close relationships don't need to involve sex in order to be close (although I know that some people already understand this lesson).

The only difference between a marriage and a Christian friendship is basically sexual contact and intimacy. Jesus lived communally with his disciples. They forsook materialism and their jobs and shared all they had in common.

They lived together, traveled together, ate together and preached together. Jesus instituted a grievance system where people who offended one another worked through the tension to the point of expulsion from the group for one or the other if the tension could not be resolved.

That is a level of commitment to one another which goes far, far, far beyond most of the shallow social relationships which the world encourages today. Even here on this forum, there is hardly any mechanism for grievances which follows the structure Jesus laid out.

I believe they also shared a level of honesty with one another that far exceeds most institutional church fellowships today. The bible talks about a need to confess our sins to one another. I know from personal experience that we should be VERY, VERY careful about who we confess our sins to, but the basic idea of extremely close fellowship is still there.

In several letters, Paul signs off his epistles with the instruction to greet various people "with a holy kiss". I believe this could very easily be translated to "holy hugs". I believe physical contact between brothers and sisters can be a very important part of fellowship, as long as it remains holy.

Hugs represent an ideal expression of holy contact between brothers and sisters in Christ. It represents a legitimate physical appreciation for one another without sexual implications.

Genuine Christian fellowship can be extremely deep and satisfy all the characteristics of marriage, except sexual intimacy.
 
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Angeldove97

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Please be aware that this thread has been moved from the Christian Advice forum to Deeper Fellowship. Thanks! :wave:
 
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Not defiled with the women, those whose souls are under the altar or to be beheaded for the witness of Jesus, are all pictures of the same thing; as is a lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. These are pictures of spiritual truths that the whole of the Bible speak to. As he assemblies (so to speak ) the book (of life) in you, these come into focus as we begin to see as he sees.

Zep 3:9 For then will I turn to the people a pure language, that they may all call upon the name of the LORD, to serve him with one consent.
 
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motherprayer

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It seems to me this thread is about Spiritual Virginity, not physical virginity.
Thank you, OP. I've been looking for a verse to do my own study on, and Luke 12 was just what I needed!
I know that's kind of off-topic, but I had to share the way God worked through you today!

I enjoyed reading this very much. Bless you!
 
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meadowlark

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It's my understanding that the 144k are literal Jews that have turned to Christ during the time after the rapture of the church and before the tribulation has ended.
Virgins of the Christ are also those betrothed to Him and awaiting the marraige supper. Their 'old husband' has died, leaving them free to remarry.
 
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candle glow

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It seems to me this thread is about Spiritual Virginity, not physical virginity.
Thank you, OP. I've been looking for a verse to do my own study on, and Luke 12 was just what I needed!
I know that's kind of off-topic, but I had to share the way God worked through you today!

I enjoyed reading this very much. Bless you!

Thanks for that, MP. Along those lines, this thread was moved from "Christian Advice" just today (as I was mistaken in putting it in that category) so it's even more timely, eh?

I also agree that it is talking about spiritual virginity. I have some other studies on this topic if you want more research info for your study. Let me know and I'll pm them to you.
 
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