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Exploring Christianity
The value of prayer
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<blockquote data-quote="stevil" data-source="post: 71809807" data-attributes="member: 277368"><p>Yes, it's not quite clear what a prayer is.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>OK, so it's not like asking for a wish to come true.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, agreed. If the god knows everything, you cannot tell the god anything it doesn't already know, even if it is merely an expression of your own feelings towards the god. The god cannot learn anything it doesn't already know, it cannot come into new knowledge. It can never be surprised, never be astonished, never see or hear anything that it didn't already know.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm unclear what is meant by this phrase.</p><p>Are you saying that god is an individual? Or are you saying that god has an existence which is unique to each believer?</p><p></p><p></p><p>Is it really a relationship when the communication is all one way?</p><p>How is this relationship any different to writing to your diary as if your diary was a best friend, or perhaps talking to your teddy bear or talking to an imaginary friend? Kinda like the castaway talking to his coconut friend Wilson.</p><p></p><p></p><p>That's right, we develop relationships with others and if they are merely a granter of wishes then we aren't having much of a relationship with them.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Does god need to have people worship it? I would think a perfect being has no such needs.</p><p>Does the believer need to have something to worship? Something to recognise as an authority, a need to be subservient to something? Does the believer gain value from being in a submissive and subservient position? Does prayer help them to achieve subservience? I suppose prayer helps give the impression of having a personal relationship with god and if performed in a certain way helps the believer think they are honoring it and putting their hand up to say "hey, i'm in your team 100%". Or something like that perhaps???</p><p>It's all about the person doing the worshipping, the god gets nothing out of it and probably doesn't intercede as a result.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Such as a person gains comfort, inspiration, strength from verbalising their situation and thoughts with a good friend, a good listener.</p><p>I think, often people look for permission or approval with regards to taking action or continuing with action. IF they verbalise to a friend and that friend doesn't tell them not to do something (or doesn't show disapproval) then they may feel inner strength or rejuvenation towards their own course of action. Perhaps prayer is somewhat like that. Talking to a great friend, a great listener that doesn't interrupt and doesn't make judgments other than the judgement one already holds on oneself. Prayer could be a way to organise your own thoughts (as you would need to when conveying those to a friend) and once organised, one can hear one's own thoughts in an organised and somewhat logical manner.</p><p></p><p>So the value of prayer could be introspection resulting in personal strength and rejuvenation or perhaps abandonment of a bad idea or being able to break away from mulling something over and over. Perhaps the god, takes the place of a good friend or even a psychiatrist who patiently listens and leads a person to set their own values and make their own decisions after having organised and considered their own thoughts?</p><p></p><p></p><p>If there is an influence favouring a specific demographic. e.g. god favouring Christians getting the job over non Christians, then statistically we would be able to see that Christians are more likely to get the job. This would (somewhat) prove that the Christian god exists and gives Christians an advantage. It would somewhat be hard to prove, because perhaps the employer is Christian and gives favour to Christian candidates, or perhaps in some countries (e.g. India) the Christians go to Christian schools which happen to give better education. So you would need to adjust for other factors.</p><p>But if we could prove a particular god's existence and favour then wouldn't this take away the requirement of "Faith" for the Christian religion? If this is the case then wouldn't the Christian god's intervention be limited to things that aren't measurable, even statistically?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="stevil, post: 71809807, member: 277368"] Yes, it's not quite clear what a prayer is. OK, so it's not like asking for a wish to come true. Yes, agreed. If the god knows everything, you cannot tell the god anything it doesn't already know, even if it is merely an expression of your own feelings towards the god. The god cannot learn anything it doesn't already know, it cannot come into new knowledge. It can never be surprised, never be astonished, never see or hear anything that it didn't already know. I'm unclear what is meant by this phrase. Are you saying that god is an individual? Or are you saying that god has an existence which is unique to each believer? Is it really a relationship when the communication is all one way? How is this relationship any different to writing to your diary as if your diary was a best friend, or perhaps talking to your teddy bear or talking to an imaginary friend? Kinda like the castaway talking to his coconut friend Wilson. That's right, we develop relationships with others and if they are merely a granter of wishes then we aren't having much of a relationship with them. Does god need to have people worship it? I would think a perfect being has no such needs. Does the believer need to have something to worship? Something to recognise as an authority, a need to be subservient to something? Does the believer gain value from being in a submissive and subservient position? Does prayer help them to achieve subservience? I suppose prayer helps give the impression of having a personal relationship with god and if performed in a certain way helps the believer think they are honoring it and putting their hand up to say "hey, i'm in your team 100%". Or something like that perhaps??? It's all about the person doing the worshipping, the god gets nothing out of it and probably doesn't intercede as a result. Such as a person gains comfort, inspiration, strength from verbalising their situation and thoughts with a good friend, a good listener. I think, often people look for permission or approval with regards to taking action or continuing with action. IF they verbalise to a friend and that friend doesn't tell them not to do something (or doesn't show disapproval) then they may feel inner strength or rejuvenation towards their own course of action. Perhaps prayer is somewhat like that. Talking to a great friend, a great listener that doesn't interrupt and doesn't make judgments other than the judgement one already holds on oneself. Prayer could be a way to organise your own thoughts (as you would need to when conveying those to a friend) and once organised, one can hear one's own thoughts in an organised and somewhat logical manner. So the value of prayer could be introspection resulting in personal strength and rejuvenation or perhaps abandonment of a bad idea or being able to break away from mulling something over and over. Perhaps the god, takes the place of a good friend or even a psychiatrist who patiently listens and leads a person to set their own values and make their own decisions after having organised and considered their own thoughts? If there is an influence favouring a specific demographic. e.g. god favouring Christians getting the job over non Christians, then statistically we would be able to see that Christians are more likely to get the job. This would (somewhat) prove that the Christian god exists and gives Christians an advantage. It would somewhat be hard to prove, because perhaps the employer is Christian and gives favour to Christian candidates, or perhaps in some countries (e.g. India) the Christians go to Christian schools which happen to give better education. So you would need to adjust for other factors. But if we could prove a particular god's existence and favour then wouldn't this take away the requirement of "Faith" for the Christian religion? If this is the case then wouldn't the Christian god's intervention be limited to things that aren't measurable, even statistically? [/QUOTE]
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