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The United States a Biblical Government
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<blockquote data-quote="Tolkien R.R.J" data-source="post: 73418332" data-attributes="member: 411644"><p><strong>Objections</strong></p><p></p><p><strong>The United States was not a Theocracy? And What About Separation of church and State</strong></p><p></p><p></p><p><em>"The ecclesiastical establishments of Europe which serve to support tyrannical governments are not the Christian religion but <u>abuses and corruptions of it</u>." </em></p><p><em>-Noah Webster</em></p><p></p><p>Many christian nations during the middle ages were indeed theocracies. But the united states was a <u>biblical</u> government, not a theocracy. The first few centuries of Christianity there was no merger or church and state, not until Emperor Theodosius did the <u>state merge with the church.</u> <u>The state took over the church </u>and controlled the church. With this also came <u>one denomination rule</u> by the state as it forced its population to conform. As early as the 1500's pastors began to preach “separation of church and state.” The state had no biblical right to control the church or interfere with religious expression. In the Bible God separated the state from the church. Moses was in control of the state and Aaron the church. They led the same nation but had separate jurisdictions. King Uzziah was a good ruler in Israel however in 2 Chronicles 26.16 Uzziah steps over into the area of the church as he sought to control both church and state the priest in the temple rightly resisted him.</p><p></p><p><em>18 And they withstood King Uzziah, and said to him, “It is not for you, Uzziah, to burn incense to the Lord, but for the priests, the sons of Aaron, who are consecrated to burn incense. Get out of the sanctuary, for you have trespassed! You shall have no honor from the Lord God.” </em></p><p><em>-2 chronicles 26.18</em></p><p></p><p>However the king did not listen and so <u>God than struck him with leprosy</u> for his actions. A biblical government as well allows other belief systems [Josh 24.15 1 kings 18.21] but itself is built on gods law.</p><p></p><p><em>SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: "We are Christians, not because the law demands it, not to gain exclusive benefits or to avoid legal disabilities, but from<u> choice and education</u>; and in a land thus universally Christian, what is to be expected, what desired, but that we shall pay a due regard to Christianity?"</em></p><p></p><p>The early American settlers such as the pilgrims, the Quakers, the Anabaptist and others, searched for religious freedom from the persecution by the state governments in Europe. Early American pastors preached separation of church and state and <u>avoidance of denomination rule</u> such as European nations had like England with its one denomination church of England that persecuted and made illegal all other denominations. 10,000 Quakers had been imprisoned or killed, 400,000 Huguenots were persecuted in France, 20,000 Lutherans were expelled from Austria and many more.</p><p></p><p>“<em>People today misapply [separation of church and state] .... cut off from its historical meaning and made to communicate ideas contrary to Jefferson and the founders of America...even one of the least orthodox of the founders, Jefferson, mixed religion and civil matters in a way that would produce violent convulsions from modern separatist.”</em></p><p><span style="font-size: 15px"><em>-Stephen McDowell The Bible America's Source of law and Liberty Providence Foundation 2016 </em></span></p><p></p><p>However the biblical view of separation of church and state is far different from the <u>modern ACLU version</u>. The biblical and American view is the state has no right to control the church or to interfere with individuals religious expression public or private.</p><p></p><p>“<em>The separation of church and state does not mean the exclusion of God, righteousness, morality, from the state.”</em></p><p><em>-Quaker leader Will Wood </em></p><p></p><p>“<em>The separation of the church from the state did not mean the severance of the state from God, or of the nation from Christianity.”</em></p><p><em>-Galloway Christianity and the American commonwealth</em></p><p></p><p><em>"The real object of the first amendment...to exclude all rilvary among christian sects, and to prevent any national establishment which should give to a hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government."</em></p><p><em>-Joseph Story 1833 Commentaries on the Constitution of the united States </em></p><p></p><p></p><p>So under the constitution they made sure the state could not interfere with the church or religious expression.</p><p></p><p><em><u>Congress shall make no law</u> respecting an establishment of religion, or <u>prohibiting the free exercise thereof</u>; or <u>abridging</u> the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. </em></p><p></p><p>The limitation is on <u>congress</u> not individuals. The first amendment like all the bill of rights <u>was a limitation on government.</u> The state cannot interfere with religion. It should be pointed out that<u> separation of church and state is found in no founding or legal document</u>. It is found in a Jefferson letter to a baptists church in 1802. In its context shows the proper understanding of separation of church and state.</p><p></p><p><a href="https://wallbuilders.com/letters-danbury-baptists-thomas-jefferson/" target="_blank">Letters Between the Danbury Baptists and Thomas Jefferson - WallBuilders</a></p><p><a href="https://wallbuilders.com/respond-separation-church-state/#FN5" target="_blank">How to Respond to “Separation of Church and State” - WallBuilders</a></p><p></p><p>“<em>It is impossible to build sound constitutional doctrine upon a mistaken understanding of Constitutional history…The establishment clause has been expressly freighted with Jefferson’s misleading metaphor for nearly forty years…There is simply no historical foundation for the proposition that the framers intended to build a wall of separation (between church and state)…The recent court decisions are in no way based on either the language or intent of the framers.”</em></p><p><em>-Associate Justice William Rehnquist U.S. Supreme Court 1985</em></p><p></p><p>Right after the first amendment was ratified George Washington called on America to fast and pray to thank god for what they had just accomplished.</p><p></p><p><strong>President of the United States of America A Proclamation</strong></p><p></p><p>“<em>Whereas</em> <em>it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor...”</em></p><p><a href="http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=3584" target="_blank">Proclamation - Thanksgiving Day - 1789 - WallBuilders</a></p><p></p><p>According to George Washington in his farewell address anyone who tried to separate Christianity from government or school was not a patriot.</p><p></p><p>“<strong>An Establishment of Religion”</strong></p><p></p><p>Was always understood the historical way of <u>no one denomination rule</u>. The US congress in June-sep25 1789 <u>clearly defines the first amendment as there not being a federally established denomination</u> but we were a Christian nation but no one denomination. A 1799 court case Runkel vs Winemiller said by our form of government the <u>Christian religion is the established religio</u>n and <u>all sects and denominations of Christian's are placed on the same ground. </u> When in 1854 people first tried separation of church and state on march 27 the house judiciary committee report said this</p><p></p><p><em>“Had the founding fathers during the revolution a suspicion of any war against Christianity that revolution would have been strangled in its cradle. at the time of the adoption of the Constitution and its amendments the universal sentiments was that <u>Christianity should be encouraged but not any one denomination </u>.. in this age there is no substitute for Christianity .. that was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.”</em></p><p></p><p>2 months later they said this</p><p></p><p><em>“The great Conservative element in our system the thing witch holds our system together is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and their Divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”</em></p><p></p><p>In 1844 a school in Philadelphia said they were going to teach morality but not Christianity. It again went to the supreme court Svidal vs Girard 1844. the supreme Court said to the school</p><p></p><p>“<em>why may not the bible and especially the new testament <u>be read and</u> <u>taught as divine revaluation in school?</u> its general precepts expounded and its glorious principles of morality communicated where can the purist principles of morality be learned so clearly or so perfectly as from the new testament.” </em></p><p></p><p>they ruled Christianity should be taught. Later in 1892 the US supreme court case church of holy trinity vs united states. when <u>a school tried to get Christianity out of its public schoo</u>l the court said </p><p></p><p>“<em>No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation state or national because this is a religious people...<u> this is a Christian nation.”</u></em></p><p> </p><p>They sited 87 court precedents from the founding fathers, acts of state governments, acts of congress etc to prove we were a Christian nation. The court said many more could be quoted but surely 87 was enough.</p><p></p><p>in another case in 1811 People vs Ruggles </p><p></p><p>A man was handing out anti Jesus, anti god, and anti bible papers. He was charged with 3 months in jail and fined $500 dollars <u>for a attack on the country.</u> The judge said an attack on Jesus was a attack on Christianity and <u>an attack on Christianity was a attack on the foundation of the country</u>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tolkien R.R.J, post: 73418332, member: 411644"] [B]Objections[/B] [B]The United States was not a Theocracy? And What About Separation of church and State[/B] [I]"The ecclesiastical establishments of Europe which serve to support tyrannical governments are not the Christian religion but [U]abuses and corruptions of it[/U]." -Noah Webster[/I] Many christian nations during the middle ages were indeed theocracies. But the united states was a [U]biblical[/U] government, not a theocracy. The first few centuries of Christianity there was no merger or church and state, not until Emperor Theodosius did the [U]state merge with the church.[/U] [U]The state took over the church [/U]and controlled the church. With this also came [U]one denomination rule[/U] by the state as it forced its population to conform. As early as the 1500's pastors began to preach “separation of church and state.” The state had no biblical right to control the church or interfere with religious expression. In the Bible God separated the state from the church. Moses was in control of the state and Aaron the church. They led the same nation but had separate jurisdictions. King Uzziah was a good ruler in Israel however in 2 Chronicles 26.16 Uzziah steps over into the area of the church as he sought to control both church and state the priest in the temple rightly resisted him. [I]18 And they withstood King Uzziah, and said to him, “It is not for you, Uzziah, to burn incense to the Lord, but for the priests, the sons of Aaron, who are consecrated to burn incense. Get out of the sanctuary, for you have trespassed! You shall have no honor from the Lord God.” -2 chronicles 26.18[/I] However the king did not listen and so [U]God than struck him with leprosy[/U] for his actions. A biblical government as well allows other belief systems [Josh 24.15 1 kings 18.21] but itself is built on gods law. [I]SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE: "We are Christians, not because the law demands it, not to gain exclusive benefits or to avoid legal disabilities, but from[U] choice and education[/U]; and in a land thus universally Christian, what is to be expected, what desired, but that we shall pay a due regard to Christianity?"[/I] The early American settlers such as the pilgrims, the Quakers, the Anabaptist and others, searched for religious freedom from the persecution by the state governments in Europe. Early American pastors preached separation of church and state and [U]avoidance of denomination rule[/U] such as European nations had like England with its one denomination church of England that persecuted and made illegal all other denominations. 10,000 Quakers had been imprisoned or killed, 400,000 Huguenots were persecuted in France, 20,000 Lutherans were expelled from Austria and many more. “[I]People today misapply [separation of church and state] .... cut off from its historical meaning and made to communicate ideas contrary to Jefferson and the founders of America...even one of the least orthodox of the founders, Jefferson, mixed religion and civil matters in a way that would produce violent convulsions from modern separatist.”[/I] [SIZE=4][I]-Stephen McDowell The Bible America's Source of law and Liberty Providence Foundation 2016 [/I][/SIZE] However the biblical view of separation of church and state is far different from the [U]modern ACLU version[/U]. The biblical and American view is the state has no right to control the church or to interfere with individuals religious expression public or private. “[I]The separation of church and state does not mean the exclusion of God, righteousness, morality, from the state.” -Quaker leader Will Wood [/I] “[I]The separation of the church from the state did not mean the severance of the state from God, or of the nation from Christianity.” -Galloway Christianity and the American commonwealth[/I] [I]"The real object of the first amendment...to exclude all rilvary among christian sects, and to prevent any national establishment which should give to a hierarchy the exclusive patronage of the national government." -Joseph Story 1833 Commentaries on the Constitution of the united States [/I] So under the constitution they made sure the state could not interfere with the church or religious expression. [I][U]Congress shall make no law[/U] respecting an establishment of religion, or [U]prohibiting the free exercise thereof[/U]; or [U]abridging[/U] the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. [/I] The limitation is on [U]congress[/U] not individuals. The first amendment like all the bill of rights [U]was a limitation on government.[/U] The state cannot interfere with religion. It should be pointed out that[U] separation of church and state is found in no founding or legal document[/U]. It is found in a Jefferson letter to a baptists church in 1802. In its context shows the proper understanding of separation of church and state. [URL="https://wallbuilders.com/letters-danbury-baptists-thomas-jefferson/"]Letters Between the Danbury Baptists and Thomas Jefferson - WallBuilders[/URL] [URL="https://wallbuilders.com/respond-separation-church-state/#FN5"]How to Respond to “Separation of Church and State” - WallBuilders[/URL] “[I]It is impossible to build sound constitutional doctrine upon a mistaken understanding of Constitutional history…The establishment clause has been expressly freighted with Jefferson’s misleading metaphor for nearly forty years…There is simply no historical foundation for the proposition that the framers intended to build a wall of separation (between church and state)…The recent court decisions are in no way based on either the language or intent of the framers.” -Associate Justice William Rehnquist U.S. Supreme Court 1985[/I] Right after the first amendment was ratified George Washington called on America to fast and pray to thank god for what they had just accomplished. [B]President of the United States of America A Proclamation[/B] “[I]Whereas[/I] [I]it is the duty of all nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey His will, to be grateful for His benefits, and humbly to implore His protection and favor...”[/I] [URL="http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles.asp?id=3584"]Proclamation - Thanksgiving Day - 1789 - WallBuilders[/URL] According to George Washington in his farewell address anyone who tried to separate Christianity from government or school was not a patriot. “[B]An Establishment of Religion”[/B] Was always understood the historical way of [U]no one denomination rule[/U]. The US congress in June-sep25 1789 [U]clearly defines the first amendment as there not being a federally established denomination[/U] but we were a Christian nation but no one denomination. A 1799 court case Runkel vs Winemiller said by our form of government the [U]Christian religion is the established religio[/U]n and [U]all sects and denominations of Christian's are placed on the same ground. [/U] When in 1854 people first tried separation of church and state on march 27 the house judiciary committee report said this [I]“Had the founding fathers during the revolution a suspicion of any war against Christianity that revolution would have been strangled in its cradle. at the time of the adoption of the Constitution and its amendments the universal sentiments was that [U]Christianity should be encouraged but not any one denomination [/U].. in this age there is no substitute for Christianity .. that was the religion of the founders of the republic and they expected it to remain the religion of their descendants.”[/I] 2 months later they said this [I]“The great Conservative element in our system the thing witch holds our system together is the belief of our people in the pure doctrines and their Divine truths of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.”[/I] In 1844 a school in Philadelphia said they were going to teach morality but not Christianity. It again went to the supreme court Svidal vs Girard 1844. the supreme Court said to the school “[I]why may not the bible and especially the new testament [U]be read and[/U] [U]taught as divine revaluation in school?[/U] its general precepts expounded and its glorious principles of morality communicated where can the purist principles of morality be learned so clearly or so perfectly as from the new testament.” [/I] they ruled Christianity should be taught. Later in 1892 the US supreme court case church of holy trinity vs united states. when [U]a school tried to get Christianity out of its public schoo[/U]l the court said “[I]No purpose of action against religion can be imputed to any legislation state or national because this is a religious people...[U] this is a Christian nation.”[/U][/I] They sited 87 court precedents from the founding fathers, acts of state governments, acts of congress etc to prove we were a Christian nation. The court said many more could be quoted but surely 87 was enough. in another case in 1811 People vs Ruggles A man was handing out anti Jesus, anti god, and anti bible papers. He was charged with 3 months in jail and fined $500 dollars [U]for a attack on the country.[/U] The judge said an attack on Jesus was a attack on Christianity and [U]an attack on Christianity was a attack on the foundation of the country[/U]. [/QUOTE]
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