The ultimate truth

[SAINTAN]

Life is but a dream, reality is an illusion of existence, the words that we form to are the illusions that we care to live in. But if you would step away from the divinely-twisted and beaten path you would realize this. Step out into the green, by a river bank, feeling the soft dirt between your toes, listening to birds chirp and the trees gather breeze.
What sense would you come to if you lived in that illusion all your life--a life without worry or care, but clarity of thought? Would you come to realize that the world is a jumble mess with false delusions of grandeur? Everyone is either good or evil in this world. But you step into the green world that I described and the whole world disappears. The illusion is shattered and you come to realize that nothing in life really matters, you step into whatever dream you like...but you can't because others have already dictated the dream for you. It is a struggle between good and evil. God and Satan. This and that.
But once you step back into the green dream along some river bank, dirt between the toes, birds chirping, trees gathering breeze, you would soon come to realize, if you could just learn to let go, that God and Satan were full of themselves--that nothing in life really matters in the green dream.
Life is but a dream, reality is an illusion of existence, the words that we form to are the illusions that we live in. If it were possible then any dream that God could have come up with would have been our illusion of existence. But you say this world is the will of God, then I would say that your God has a sick and twisted will. No...it's because of Satan. Well, I don't see Satan pulling man's strings. Live in whatever illusion you care to live in. Your will to savour God, shall I show you your eternal lot--it is between the white and black spiders. My eternal lot is near a pleasant stream having a pleasant dream.
You can say that reality is not an illusion but is very real. I can tell you differently, all of this that you see before you came from the imagination. Your own sick and twisted illusions of existence.
For instance of your false illusion, you say that a diamond has value. I say you live in la la land and only believe that a rock has certain value. In truth, a diamond has as much value as a blade of grass. To live your lives a lie is the certainty that I forsee throughout all eternity for yourselves.

 

[MorkandMindy]

You do write well, I like your green world.

I think the nasty world so many of us carry in our heads has been constructed for a reason. That isn't to say we benefit from carrying it around, but I'll try to describe what may be the reason.

Competition for resources. Humanity keeps rubbing it's head on the ceiling of a population limit. Social group then fights social group, and each social group is bound by an ethos.

Competition is the game, in school, business, everywhere. Christianity is not really the dominant thought in the US, it is competition.

Much of US Christianity accepts that communism must be destroyed, that after 911 we should kill 1,000 times as many of them as they killed of us, etc. Not Christian at all when the chips are down, but competition.

But as you seem to indicate, the nasty ethos causes members to sacrifice themselves to some extent for the group, and it is actually beneficial to any individual to discard the ethos, just as long as too many others don't do it too.

Or incentives or threats can be provided to get the majority to keep the ethos.

I'll join you in your green world.

 

[elman]

Life is but a dream, reality is an illusion of existence, the words that we form to are the illusions that we care to live in. But if you would step away from the divinely-twisted and beaten path you would realize this. Step out into the green, by a river bank, feeling the soft dirt between your toes, listening to birds chirp and the trees gather breeze.
What sense would you come to if you lived in that illusion all your life--a life without worry or care, but clarity of thought? Would you come to realize that the world is a jumble mess with false delusions of grandeur? Everyone is either good or evil in this world. But you step into the green world that I described and the whole world disappears. The illusion is shattered and you come to realize that nothing in life really matters, you step into whatever dream you like...but you can't because others have already dictated the dream for you. It is a struggle between good and evil. God and Satan. This and that.
But once you step back into the green dream along some river bank, dirt between the toes, birds chirping, trees gathering breeze, you would soon come to realize, if you could just learn to let go, that God and Satan were full of themselves--that nothing in life really matters in the green dream.
Life is but a dream, reality is an illusion of existence, the words that we form to are the illusions that we live in. If it were possible then any dream that God could have come up with would have been our illusion of existence. But you say this world is the will of God, then I would say that your God has a sick and twisted will. No...it's because of Satan. Well, I don't see Satan pulling man's strings. Live in whatever illusion you care to live in. Your will to savour God, shall I show you your eternal lot--it is between the white and black spiders. My eternal lot is near a pleasant stream having a pleasant dream.
You can say that reality is not an illusion but is very real. I can tell you differently, all of this that you see before you came from the imagination. Your own sick and twisted illusions of existence.
For instance of your false illusion, you say that a diamond has value. I say you live in la la land and only believe that a rock has certain value. In truth, a diamond has as much value as a blade of grass. To live your lives a lie is the certainty that I forsee throughout all eternity for yourselves.

If you wake up and are hungry you might have to go to work to get something to eat.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

"I think, therefore i am." Disproves your statement simply and easily.

 

[SAINTAN]

You do write well, I like your green world.

I think the nasty world so many of us carry in our heads has been constructed for a reason. That isn't to say we benefit from carrying it around, but I'll try to describe what may be the reason.

Competition for resources. Humanity keeps rubbing it's head on the ceiling of a population limit. Social group then fights social group, and each social group is bound by an ethos.

Competition is the game, in school, business, everywhere. Christianity is not really the dominant thought in the US, it is competition.

Much of US Christianity accepts that communism must be destroyed, that after 911 we should kill 1,000 times as many of them as they killed of us, etc. Not Christian at all when the chips are down, but competition.

But as you seem to indicate, the nasty ethos causes members to sacrifice themselves to some extent for the group, and it is actually beneficial to any individual to discard the ethos, just as long as too many others don't do it too.

Or incentives or threats can be provided to get the majority to keep the ethos.

I'll join you in your green world.

A truth well spoken my friend. Competition has and always will be everything.

 

[SAINTAN]

If you wake up and are hungry you might have to go to work to get something to eat.

You think if I'm hungry I might have to eat? That is an illusion that the flesh cannot escape. An illusion nonetheless. However, that which is born in spirit endures without food.

 

[psychedelicist]

"I think, therefore i am." Disproves your statement simply and easily.

Not quite. To say that reality is an illusion is not at all the same as saying it does not exist. Illusions are deceptions but even though the deception is a lie it must still exist nonetheless, otherwise what could keep you from seeing the truth?

The real problem comes when we have to decide how to react. Like I said, even though the reality we ae used to may be an illusion it still, and always will, exist. And it will always be full of conflict. Is the conflict less deserving of our attention simply because it exists unnecessarily? Do we spend our lives trying to ease the conflict and suffering that comes from this illusion, even though we know that as long as the illusion exists new problems will always arise? Or do we retreat to this 'green world' and celebrate how we so cleverly deduced this illusion while it continues to kill everyone else?

Or to put it more simply, is realizing reality is an illusion really us realizing some grand truth or is it simply us trying to escape from this reality? Can you say for certain that this green world is the truth behind the illusion, and not just your mind running away from reality?

Your analogy of the green world reminds me of the wood between the worlds from the chronicles of narnia, and the obvious problems it presented the people who traveled there. They simply became complacent, comfortably numb while conflict raged on everywhere else.

 

[plindboe]

How would one know that life is a dream? How would one falsify the idea? It's a pointless philosophical exercise, that seems to have arisen among teens who've watched "The Matrix" too many times.

Peter

 

[MorkandMindy]

How would one know that life is a dream? How would one falsify the idea? It's a pointless philosophical exercise, that seems to have arisen among teens who've watched "The Matrix" too many times.

Peter

Depends on what you mean by 'life'. Life as in there is no life in this village on a Sunday night, or life as in self propagating entities that meet certain other criteria.

I read on to get see what Paganight was referring to, and it was the World people carry in their heads, with evil beings and evil people, with political dispute and the need to get ahead.

That World is a fiction. People are great and imagining, that's why movies are so gripping even if what is going on is impossible. People carry a reality map around and it is often temporarily replaced by a more interesting one as relaxation.

It can be replaced permanently by one more suitable and that may benefit the individual though not the society they live in which then loses control over one person.

 

[ForZion]

I think Jesus pretty much summed up the ultimate truth when he said "I AM" and I'm not talking about him being the messiah. If you can understand this, and I mean truly understand it...

 

[elman]

You think if I'm hungry I might have to eat? That is an illusion that the flesh cannot escape. An illusion nonetheless. However, that which is born in spirit endures without food.

Starvation is not much of an illusion. That which is born in spirit still requires spiritual norischment.

 

[The Nihilist]

Spirit is made up

 

[JGL53]

I think Jesus pretty much summed up the ultimate truth when he said "I AM" and I'm not talking about him being the messiah. If you can understand this, and I mean truly understand it...

Or the Hindus's "Thou Art That." If you can understand this, and I mean truly understand it, ....

 

[Stinker]

Life is but a dream, reality is an illusion of existence, the words that we form to are the illusions that we care to live in. But if you would step away from the divinely-twisted and beaten path you would realize this. Step out into the green, by a river bank, feeling the soft dirt between your toes, listening to birds chirp and the trees gather breeze.
What sense would you come to if you lived in that illusion all your life--a life without worry or care, but clarity of thought? Would you come to realize that the world is a jumble mess with false delusions of grandeur? Everyone is either good or evil in this world. But you step into the green world that I described and the whole world disappears. The illusion is shattered and you come to realize that nothing in life really matters, you step into whatever dream you like...but you can't because others have already dictated the dream for you. It is a struggle between good and evil. God and Satan. This and that.
But once you step back into the green dream along some river bank, dirt between the toes, birds chirping, trees gathering breeze, you would soon come to realize, if you could just learn to let go, that God and Satan were full of themselves--that nothing in life really matters in the green dream.
Life is but a dream, reality is an illusion of existence, the words that we form to are the illusions that we live in. If it were possible then any dream that God could have come up with would have been our illusion of existence. But you say this world is the will of God, then I would say that your God has a sick and twisted will. No...it's because of Satan. Well, I don't see Satan pulling man's strings. Live in whatever illusion you care to live in. Your will to savour God, shall I show you your eternal lot--it is between the white and black spiders. My eternal lot is near a pleasant stream having a pleasant dream.
You can say that reality is not an illusion but is very real. I can tell you differently, all of this that you see before you came from the imagination. Your own sick and twisted illusions of existence.
For instance of your false illusion, you say that a diamond has value. I say you live in la la land and only believe that a rock has certain value. In truth, a diamond has as much value as a blade of grass. To live your lives a lie is the certainty that I forsee throughout all eternity for yourselves.

Psalm 23


1The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. 6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.
------------------------------------------------------

This is David's description of the Green Dream. He experienced a portion of it while he was alive, as we each occassionally do. He is experencing the ultimate reality of it now....as we also will.

 

[quatona]

"I think, therefore i am." Disproves your statement simply and easily.

For the sake of precisions let´s rather say it contradicts it.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

How about disproves and contradicts? Spices it up even more. Because it does disprove the statement, and it does contradict it. MMMMM.

 

[quatona]

How about disproves and contradicts? Spices it up even more. Because it does disprove the statement, and it does contradict it. MMMMM.

Except that it doesn´t prove or disprove anything. It is a mere claim, and - if meant to be a logical deduction - it makes use of the logical fallacy of begging the question.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

Except that it doesn´t prove or disprove anything. It is a mere claim, and - if meant to be a logical deduction - it makes use of the logical fallacy of begging the question.

His statement is thus proving his belief in that statment and proving his statement to himself. My statement disproves his statement to himself.

 

[quatona]

His statement is thus proving his belief in that statment

Not really. All it proves is that he states it.

and proving his statement to himself.

Good for him, but irrelevant for everybody else.

My statement disproves his statement to himself.

I´m afraid you´ve lost me here.

 

[ExistencePrecedesEssence]

Not really. All it proves is that he states it.

Good for him, but irrelevant for everybody else.


I´m afraid you´ve lost me here.

He created a truth to himself, or a fact to himself, i meant it in a way that i disprove his fact to himself. And contradict his statement to everbody else, i need to explain better >.>.