The U.S. flag, George Washington was a slave owner.

[ChristJudgeOfAll]

Although, I can understand why a lot of people don't like the confederate flag, but it's easy to understand that the people who fly it, can certainly do so for reasons other than racism.

George Washington owned slaves, and yet we have him on our money, in our parks, and on street signs. So why do we judge the south, when we also proudly honor racists nationally as a country?

Many of our presidents have done horrible things, and yet are still honored and remembered. FDR imprisoned all the Japanese in internment camps during WWII, and yet Japanese people don't complain about street signs and schools named after FDR.

Grant tried to ban all jews from trading and commerce, and yet Grant still has streets named after him.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Although, I can understand why a lot of people don't like the confederate flag, but it's easy to understand that the people who fly it, can certainly do so for reasons other than racism.

George Washington owned slaves, and yet we have him on our money, in our parks, and on street signs. So why do we judge the south, when we also proudly honor racists nationally as a country?

Many of our presidents have done horrible things, and yet are still honored and remembered. FDR imprisoned all the Japanese in internment camps during WWII, and yet Japanese people don't complain about street signs and schools named after FDR.

Grant tried to ban all jews from trading and commerce, and yet Grant still has streets named after him.

Isn't this a case of comparing apples to oranges. Comparing people to flags.

 

[DaisyDay]

Isn't this a case of comparing apples to oranges. Comparing people to flags.

I wonder if the OP can admit the atrocities committed under the flag of the USA?

Why are flag lapel pins no longer de rigueur for politicians?

 

[AirPo]

Although, I can understand why a lot of people don't like the confederate flag, but it's easy to understand that the people who fly it, can certainly do so for reasons other than racism.

George Washington owned slaves, and yet we have him on our money, in our parks, and on street signs. So why do we judge the south, when we also proudly honor racists nationally as a country?

Many of our presidents have done horrible things, and yet are still honored and remembered. FDR imprisoned all the Japanese in internment camps during WWII, and yet Japanese people don't complain about street signs and schools named after FDR.

Grant tried to ban all jews from trading and commerce, and yet Grant still has streets named after him.

It's really simple.

Fought for freedom and won (more than once.)

Fought for slavery and lost.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

It's really simple.

Fought for freedom and won (more than once.)

Fought for slavery and lost.

That pretty much settles it. The flag of a nation that lost to another shouldn't be flown in the winning nation's territory. The only people I can think of who would fly the Confederate flag are the ones who support the Confederacy and what it stood for.

 

[Red Fox]

It's really simple.

Fought for freedom and won (more than once.)

That filthy rag doesn't deserve anymore respect than the country it represents. The only good American rag is one that's burning to ashes. The only reason why this country exists is because it stole the land it now resides on and committed genocide against Native Americans. This country became independent only because it took away the independence, rights and freedom away from Native Americans. This country was not founded on freedom or liberty and justice for all. It was founded on genocide, slavery, racism, and white supremacy. The European invaders came like a horde of locusts to this land, devouring and destroying everything in their path, leaving only death and devastation in their wake. It was death and destruction. It was Manifest Destiny cowardly hidden behind the banner of Christianity and sent forth in the name of God.

And before any non-native has the audacity to tell me that if I don't love America, I can leave it, need I remind them who is the descendant of the original inhabitants of this land and who isn't. And before another one has the audacity to attempt to justify what happened to my ancestors because my ancestors once fought with each other from time to time in war and fought for land and rights, think before you speak. If foreigners came into this country and committed the same exact atrocities against Americans that were once committed against my ancestors, would those atrocities be justified because Americans once fought against each other during the Civil War? I think not.

 

[Desk trauma]

Red fox:

What's the end game?

Your posts about how awful the US is are all more or less the same, I get it. What's next? What would be justice? Is it possible to right the wrong to your satisfaction or are you signed up for a life time or reminding us how awful the past and present are?

 

[GoldenBoy89]

That filthy rag doesn't deserve anymore respect than the country it represents. The only good American rag is one that's burning to ashes. The only reason why this country exists is because it stole the land it now resides on and committed genocide against Native Americans. This country became independent only because it took away the independence, rights and freedom away from Native Americans. This country was not founded on freedom or liberty and justice for all. It was founded on genocide, slavery, racism, and white supremacy. The European invaders came like a horde of locusts to this land, devouring and destroying everything in their path, leaving only death and devastation in their wake. It was death and destruction. It was Manifest Destiny cowardly hidden behind the banner of Christianity and sent forth in the name of God.

And before any non-native has the audacity to tell me that if I don't love America, I can leave it, need I remind them who is the descendant of the original inhabitants of this land and who isn't. And before another one has the audacity to attempt to justify what happened to my ancestors because my ancestors once fought with each other from time to time in war and fought for land and rights, think before you speak. If foreigners came into this country and committed the same exact atrocities against Americans that were once committed against my ancestors, would those atrocities be justified because Americans once fought against each other during the Civil War? I think not.

I'm not going to comment on the atrocities committed against your people by The United States. It happened and it is still a terrible stain in the book of American history. That said, people were pretty messed up in the past and it isn't fair to hold anyone from the past to modern standards. Nobody would pass.

But the fact remains that the flag of the Confederacy is the flag of another country. A country that deliberately tried to break apart this country and was willing to go to war over the issue of owning people as property. A country that no longer exists, BTW... In this one, particular instance, The US was fighting for what is right. As an American, I don't know how anyone can fly the Confederate flag. It is supported by racists, it stands for another country and it brings with it the heavy baggage of a terrible time in American history. It has no place in our country.

 

[Red Fox]

Red fox:

What's the end game?

There is no end game, unless of course, all the descendants of European immigrants leave this country, which will never happen and I don't expect it to.

Your posts about how awful the US is are all more or less the same, I get it. What's next? What would be justice? Is it possible to right the wrong to your satisfaction or are you signed up for a life time or reminding us how awful the past and present are?

There is no real justice for my people and no amount of money or special privileges will undo the immeasurable damage that has been done to us in this country. I will, however, continue to remind people, mainly non-native people, that this country isn't the bed of roses as so many of them believe it to be. They may have the roses, but my people and many other minority people are still standing on the thorns. I'm literally sickened by any indications of patriotism for this country when I'm daily reminded of what my people have suffered and how much we have lost in this country, all in the name of independence, freedom and liberty. We lost so much more than just our freedom, our rights and our independence. We almost lost our entire identity as a people. We almost lost our entire culture, our way of life, our languages, our heritage, our traditions, and our spirituality. I lost mine and had to fight to regain it after I became an adult. And one more thing to remember, those who don't know history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[ChristJudgeOfAll]

I'm not going to comment on the atrocities committed against your people by The United States. It happened and it is still a terrible stain in the book of American history. That said, people were pretty messed up in the past and it isn't fair to hold anyone from the past to modern standards. Nobody would pass.

But the fact remains that the flag of the Confederacy is the flag of another country. A country that deliberately tried to break apart this country and was willing to go to war over the issue of owning people as property. A country that no longer exists, BTW... In this one, particular instance, The US was fighting for what is right. As an American, I don't know how anyone can fly the Confederate flag. It is supported by racists, it stands for another country and it brings with it the heavy baggage of a terrible time in American history. It has no place in our country.

We fought Britain. Do we let British citizens fly their flags in the United States? Yeah, we do. I have a friend who flies his British flag out his window next to his American flag, no one cries foul. Should the United States ban all flags expect for the American flag?

 

[NotreDame]

Although, I can understand why a lot of people don't like the confederate flag, but it's easy to understand that the people who fly it, can certainly do so for reasons other than racism.

George Washington owned slaves, and yet we have him on our money, in our parks, and on street signs. So why do we judge the south, when we also proudly honor racists nationally as a country?

Many of our presidents have done horrible things, and yet are still honored and remembered. FDR imprisoned all the Japanese in internment camps during WWII, and yet Japanese people don't complain about street signs and schools named after FDR.

Grant tried to ban all jews from trading and commerce, and yet Grant still has streets named after him.

FDR isn't a good example as the internment was not on the basis the Japanese were an inferior race or with the purpose of separating the races from each other.

I also question whether GW is a good example but I perceive your point. Perhaps objects which symbolize racism, a racist practice, or racist belief, shouldn't be on the government's money, official street names, et cetera.

Although, I can understand why a lot of people don't like the confederate flag, but it's easy to understand that the people who fly it, can certainly do so for reasons other than racism.

An objection to the display of the Confederate flag isn't the person displaying the flag is racist but rather the flag itself is a symbol of racism.

 

[NotreDame]

Isn't this a case of comparing apples to oranges. Comparing people to flags.

Is it? So are you inclined to think a picture of Adolf Hitler on money or a street named "Adolf Hitler Drive" or a public school named "Adolf Hitler Elementary" is different from a flag and what a flag symbolizes on the basis one is human and the other is an object? Doesn't the person and his name, "Jesus" symbolize how he lived, what he believed, his ideals, beliefs, such that the person and name is a symbol for those very things? Doesn't the name and person "Socrates" symbolize how he lived, what he did? "Socrates," the name and man does symbolize his conduct and actions, so much so there is a practice, a peculiar conduct in the legal profession called, "The Socratic Method."

I think you are making an unpersuasive point to distinguish a symbol on the basis one is an object and another a person.

 

[GoldenBoy89]

We fought Britain. Do we let British citizens fly their flags in the United States? Yeah, we do. I have a friend who flies his British flag out his window next to his American flag, no one cries foul. Should the United States ban all flags expect for the American flag?

Britain still exists and I could be wrong but I don't think they continue the practice of slavery. Those two points are key as to why the Confederate flag should not be flown.

The other point I'd like to make is that I actually have no problem with private citizens owning and displaying whatever flag they like. The issue with the Confederate flag came up because the South Carolina Statehouse was up until recently, still flying the Confederate flag which was only put up in defiance after the Civil Rights Act was passed. They did it deliberately to spite and offend the supporters of the bill.

 

[Red Fox]

I'm not going to comment on the atrocities committed against your people by The United States. It happened and it is still a terrible stain in the book of American history. That said, people were pretty messed up in the past and it isn't fair to hold anyone from the past to modern standards. Nobody would pass.

I agree. I just don't want non-Native Americans to forget how their beloved country originally got started or sit idly by while many of them continue to perpetuate the historical lie that this nation was founded on freedom or liberty and justice for all. It has been racist and oppressive of its minority people since before its inception.

But the fact remains that the flag of the Confederacy is the flag of another country. A country that deliberately tried to break apart this country and was willing to go to war over the issue of owning people as property. A country that no longer exists, BTW... In this one, particular instance, The US was fighting for what is right. As an American, I don't know how anyone can fly the Confederate flag. It is supported by racists, it stands for another country and it brings with it the heavy baggage of a terrible time in American history. It has no place in our country.

And I agree with you about the Confederate rag.

 

[Albion]

Although, I can understand why a lot of people don't like the confederate flag, but it's easy to understand that the people who fly it, can certainly do so for reasons other than racism.

George Washington owned slaves, and yet we have him on our money, in our parks, and on street signs. So why do we judge the south, when we also proudly honor racists nationally as a country?

Many of our presidents have done horrible things, and yet are still honored and remembered. FDR imprisoned all the Japanese in internment camps during WWII, and yet Japanese people don't complain about street signs and schools named after FDR.

Grant tried to ban all jews from trading and commerce, and yet Grant still has streets named after him.

You are right, of course. However, the people who promote these vendettas are not fairminded. They will easily defend the street names, statues, etc. of their own heroes, even though they have more moral deficiencies than the folks they have attacked.

This is the problem a lot of people have with assessing the Left-wing's crusades. The onlooker thinks rationally and assumes some logic on the part of these activists. But they aren't interested in consistency or facts; they only appeal to such things in order to persuade us, knowing what we value in any political argument.

 

[Albion]

It's really simple.

If it were that simple, you probably could have gotten the issues correct in the telling.

 

[tulc]

Washington, Jefferson, Jackson, Grant, Franklin and Madison ($1, $2, $20, $50, $100, $5,000 ( ) ) were all slave owners. Hamilton ($10) wasn't Lincoln ($5) didn't own any but his wife did. I suspect Wilson ($100,000 (I didn't know these even existed!) would probably have loved to own slaves but was born "too late"
tulc(loves history!)

 

[Red Fox]

And when I have to use money to buy something, I have to look at their ugly mugs.... the torture never ends....

 

[Lazy_Proverb]

I'd make the observation that it isn't about slavery else it would be recognized that people in the north owned slaves. Slaves were sold on Wall street.
Rather, it is about testing the waters to see how far a revisionist agenda will be allowed to venture as they seek to destroy factual American history. One means to effect that is to remove the symbols that speak of and for it. Then the revisionists edit of history books can commence. And a new fabricated more palatable American history will take prominence in schools and the American psyche.
Those who recall the true history being of the older generation will die out. And the new generation will be taught the new truth.And it shall be that which marches on into the future.

Although, I can understand why a lot of people don't like the confederate flag, but it's easy to understand that the people who fly it, can certainly do so for reasons other than racism.

George Washington owned slaves, and yet we have him on our money, in our parks, and on street signs. So why do we judge the south, when we also proudly honor racists nationally as a country?

Many of our presidents have done horrible things, and yet are still honored and remembered. FDR imprisoned all the Japanese in internment camps during WWII, and yet Japanese people don't complain about street signs and schools named after FDR.

Grant tried to ban all jews from trading and commerce, and yet Grant still has streets named after him.

 

[Red Fox]

Talk about wanting to alter American history....

I remember when the Oklahoma legislature banned AP High School History from their curriculum because the history lessons defamed America.

"the new AP U.S. History framework emphasizes "what is bad about America" and doesn't teach "American exceptionalism." -
Why Oklahoma Lawmakers Voted to Ban AP U.S. History

Oklahoma’s legislative committee on education voted 11-4 Monday to pass a bill prohibiting public schools from teaching advanced placement United States history amid accusations that the course is not patriotic enough, and Oklahoma teachers are fuming. - Oklahoma Teachers Not Too Pleased About Bill to Ban AP U.S. History

Also excerpted from the article....

But Holtzen and others say it is ridiculous to suggest that the course is anti-American.

“It teaches about America. Both the good and the bad. It teaches the parts that we like to focus on, that we can be proud of, but it also shows areas where we stumbled and, importantly, where we’ve been able to correct mistakes of the past,” Holtzen says. “It includes the idea of American exceptionalism, that this is a great nation that has had great achievement, but we shouldn’t ignore the areas where we failed or that we need work on.”

Oklahoma Won’t Let A.P. History Defame America No More

Sorry, Oklahoma. You don't get to ban history you don't like

Oklahoma Lawmakers Want To Ban High School AP History Courses