the truth remains

[rainbowinthesky]

Whatever may be said or claimed in regard to Seventh-day Adventism or Ellen G. White or anything connected with them and their history, the truth remains and that is that the ONLY WAY to attain to righteousness (and righteousness is love and love is the fulfilment of the law,,, Rom.13:10; 5:5; Gal.5:6) we must bring to God the MERITS of the blood of our precious Redeemer.(Rom.3:25) It is that simple. All who daily come to God just as they are, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the MERITS of their crucified and risen Saviour, are accepted of God and blessed with great grace, the grace of the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Godhead. This gift cannot be excelled as it brings in its train all other blessings. The receiver of this gift becomes one with Christ and with the Father and thus he is clothed with the panoply of Heaven making him God's fortress in a revolted world, impregnable to the assaults of Satan. Thus he may become a vessel fit for the Master's use. The Holy Spirit is to do wonderful works in and through the all-sufficient merits of the spotless Lamb of God. Thus God will have a people through whom He can finish the work and cut it short in righteousness. Before probation closes God will have a people who will, through the merits of Christ, be enabled to keep every precept of His holy law. Thus the love and mercy and goodness of God will be revealed in full and final display and then the end will come.

sky

REPHRASED:

The ONLY WAY to attain to RIGHTEOUSNESS (and righteousness is love and therefore the fulfillment of the law, Rom.13:10; 5:5; Gal.5:6) is to bring bring to God the MERITS of the blood of our precious Redeemer.(Rom.3:25)

All who daily come to God just as they are, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the MERITS of their crucified and risen Saviour, are accepted of God and greatly blessed. God loves them as He loves Jesus. They are blessed with great power and great grace (Acts 4:33), the grace of the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Godhead. This gift cannot be excelled as it brings in its train all the other blessings of the Covenant of Grace.

The receiver of this gift becomes one with Christ and with the Father and thus he is clothed with the panoply of Heaven making him God's fortress in a revolted world, impregnable to the assaults of Satan. Thus he becomes a vessel fit for the Master's use. The Holy Spirit is to do wonderful works in and through the all-sufficient merits of the spotless Lamb of God.

Before probation closes God will have a people through whom He will finish the work and cut it short in righteousness.(Rom.9:28) He will have a people who will, through faith in the merits of Christ, be enabled to keep every precept of His holy law.(Rev.14:12)

"The revelation of His own glory in the form of humanity will bring Heaven so near to men that the beauty adorning the inner temple will be seen in every soul in whom the Saviour dwells. Men will be captivated by the glory of an abiding Christ. And in currents of praise and thanksgiving from the many souls thus won to God, glory will flow back to the great Giver." Christ's Object Lessons,420.

Thus the love and grace and mercy and goodness of God will be revealed in full and final display and then the end will come.

 

[ricker]

Whatever may be said or claimed in regard to Seventh-day Adventism or Ellen G. White or anything connected with them and their history, the truth remains and that is that the ONLY WAY to attain to righteousness (and righteousness is love and love is the fulfilment of the law,,, Rom.13:10; 5:5; Gal.5:6) we must bring to God the MERITS of the blood of our precious Redeemer.(Rom.3:25) It is that simple. All who daily come to God just as they are, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the MERITS of their crucified and risen Saviour, are accepted of God and blessed with great grace, the grace of the Holy Spirit, the Third Person of the Godhead. This gift cannot be excelled as it brings in its train all other blessings. The receiver of this gift becomes one with Christ and with the Father and thus he is clothed with the panoply of Heaven making him God's fortress in a revolted world, impregnable to the assaults of Satan. Thus he may become a vessel fit for the Master's use. The Holy Spirit is to do wonderful works in and through the all-sufficient merits of the spotless Lamb of God. Thus God will have a people through whom He can finish the work and cut it short in righteousness. Before probation closes God will have a people who will, through the merits of Christ, be enabled to keep every precept of His holy law. Thus the love and mercy and goodness of God will be revealed in full and final display and then the end will come.

sky

Where do you find all this, except through previously unknown interpretations of the highly symbolic and encoded writings of Revelation, supposedly deciphered by the early SDA church with the stamp of approval of Mrs. White?

 

[Castaway57]

Whatever may be said or claimed in regard to Seventh-day Adventism or Ellen G. White or anything connected with them and their history, the truth remains and that is that the ONLY WAY to attain to righteousness (and righteousness is love and love is the fulfilment of the law,,, Rom.13:10; 5:5; Gal.5:6) we must bring to God the MERITS of the blood of our precious Redeemer.(Rom.3:25) It is that simple. sky

Rom 13:10 is the only one which would support your statement here; IF your statement were correct.I find it very unfortunate when people rise up among us and claim that we are "righteous" by "fulfilling the law." There is no need for Calvary, should this be true.

It's really not as simple as you say. You present a very mixed up message. The only way to "righteousness" or salvation, if you will, would be through a Person, not through "fulfilling the law." That Person is Jesus. (see John 1:29 where we are told "behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin.")

I find myself wondering two things here:

1/ What is your understanding of Romans 13:10 "Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." What is meant here by "fulfilling?"

2/ "righteousness" and "love" are two different words, two different meanings. yet above you say they mean the same? Why is this? What Bible texts would you use to prove it?

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Rom 13:10 is the only one which would support your statement here; IF your statement were correct.I find it very unfortunate when people rise up among us and claim that we are "righteous" by "fulfilling the law." There is no need for Calvary, should this be true.

It's really not as simple as you say. You present a very mixed up message. The only way to "righteousness" or salvation, if you will, would be through a Person, not through "fulfilling the law." That Person is Jesus. (see John 1:29 where we are told "behold the Lamb of God which taketh away the sin.")

I find myself wondering two things here:

1/ What is your understanding of Romans 13:10 "Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." What is meant here by "fulfilling?"

2/ "righteousness" and "love" are two different words, two different meanings. yet above you say they mean the same? Why is this? What Bible texts would you use to prove it?

Castaway, Do I detect a bit of sarcasm in your reply? How long have you been a student of the Word and of the Testimonies? Being an SDA, shouldn't you know that the unadulterated Gospel of Jesus Christ is just as simple as ABC?

"We do not understand the matter of salvation. IT IS JUST AS SIMPLE AS ABC. But we dont understand it... How has it been with the disciples of Christ in all ages of the world? Why, they have learned of Jesus; they have learned the lessons of Christ in regard to the living connection that the soul has with God. That LIVING FAITH is essential for our salvation, that we should LAY HOLD UPON the MERITS of the blood of the crucified and risen Saviour, on Christ our righteousness." Faith & Works,64.

"You cannot explain THIS FAITH that lays right hold upon the MERITS of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour TO BRING Christ's RIGHTEOUSNESS into your life. Clothed with the righteousness of Christ and not your own righteousness, you will NOT depend upon what you can do or what you will do," for "CHRIST'S RIGHTEOUSNESS ACCOMPLISHES EVERYTHING." Faith & Works,65,66.

Christ's righteousness accomplishes everything as it is "made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God." T.M.92.

Therefore it is easy to see that righteousness is love as it is made manifest in obedience. (Rom.13:10)

This faith that lays right hold upon the MERITS of Christ is the faith that brings the love of God into the heart and therefore it is the faith that works by love. (Rom.5:5; Gal.5:6; Eph.2:13; 1 Cor.1:30)

"God will accept everyone that comes to Him trusting wholly in the MERITS of a crucified and risen Savior. LOVE SPRINGS UP IN THE HEART." 1 S.M.354.

Today we are invited, as in 1888, "to receive the righteousness of God which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of God." Testimonies to Ministers,92.

We receive this righteousness of God, which is His love, by laying right hold upon the merits of the crucified and risen Savior.

So "love" and "righteousness" are one and the same thing.

And where in my statement did I give the slightest impression that we become righteous by fulfilling the law!!!???

What I believe and teach is that the only way to attain to righteousness--and righteousness is love and love is the fulfillment of the law--is through faith, through the faith that lays right hold upon the MERITS of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour.

Thus we read, "The only faith that will benefit us is that which embraces Him as a personal Saviour: which appropriates His MERITS to ourselves." Desire of Ages,347.

This is the only way the sinner can be saved, by appropriating to himself the merits of Christ, by claiming them. Unless the sinner does this on a daily basis he cannot be saved. See T.M.93.

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness. This the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The ONLY WAY he can attain to RIGHTEOUSNESS is through FAITH. By faith he can BRING to God the MERITS of Christ." Faith & Works,101.

Could the Lord have made the matter of salvation more simple?

"By faith he can BRING to God the MERITS of Christ."

As the sinner makes it his life business to bring to God the merits of Christ he is accepted in the Beloved and God loves him as He loves Jesus. This is how faith is accounted righteousness and the sinner may go on from grace to grace and from victory to victory. See Faith & Works,101.

"When we seek to gain Heaven through the MERITS of Christ, the soul makes progress... from strength to strength, from victory to victory." Faith & Works,94.

Many seek to gain Heaven through the merits of their good works but that is an impossibility. "Works without faith are dead and faith without works is dead; works will never save us. It is the merits of Christ that will avail in our behalf." F.W.48.

This last statement above says it all.

"Righteousness is love and love is the light and the life of God," and "the life of God in the soul is man's only hope." Mount of Blessing,18; Ministry of Healing,115.

"Righteousness is love." Mount of Blessing,18.

"Righteousness is right doing." Christ Object Lessons,312.

"Righteousness is obedience to the law." Faith & Works,101.

Righteousness is God's right doing so that as the sinner daily comes to God just as he is, sinful, helpless, dependent, trusting wholly in the MERITS of Christ's infinite sacrifice for his acceptance with God, the Holy Spirit is imparted to him working in him both to will and to do God's good pleasure (righteousness) as it is expressed in the precepts of His holy law.

The good works that the Holy Spirit enables the believer to do will not act a part in the salvation of the soul or in merit. These good works are accepted only through the merits of Christ. God will reward these good works but in and of themselves they have no merit toward our salvation.

"There is salvation for you but only through the merits of Jesus Christ. The grace of the Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again." Testimonies to Ministers,97.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we appropriate the blessings of light and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit." Testimonies, Vol.5,744.

So we do not become righteous by obeying the law. We obey the law because we have become righteous through the only true faith, the faith that daily lays right hold upon the merits of the blood of a crucified and risen Savior. ( Romans 3:25)

sky

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Ricker, does my last post answer yours?

sky

 

[Castaway57]

Castaway, Do I detect a bit of sarcasm in your reply?

Nope. None intended at all. Asking honest questions; expected honest answers.

How long have you been a student of the Word and of the Testimonies?

That should not matter right now, and it has nothing to do with the OP

Being an SDA, shouldn't you know that the unadulterated Gospel of Jesus Christ is just as simple as ABC?

I have always said that the gospel is simply wonderful; and wonderfully simple. Your reply here was the opposite. It is confusing at best. More later...

 

[rainbowinthesky]

I realize that it is not the number of years one has believed something that makes it the truth. I was just a bit curious about your reply as it was given with a semblance of authority and yet was lacking in knowledge and there was nothing in it showing how simple the matter of salvation really is.

Now you claim that my response was even more confusing!

Here is what my last reply boils down do: "The merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.

Is this confusing to you?

The merits of Christ are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf in order to receive the gift that brings all the blessings of the covenant of grace into our life: the gift of the Holy Spirit, the gift that cannot be excelled.

Is that confusing to you?

PLease read my last post again with that in mind.

sky

 

[Castaway57]

I realize that it is not the number of years one has believed something that makes it the truth. I was just a bit curious about your reply as it was given with a semblance of authority and yet was lacking in knowledge and there was nothing in it showing how simple the matter of salvation really is.

Now you claim that my response was even more confusing!

Here is what my last reply boils down do: "The merits of Christ's sacrifice are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf." S.C.36.

Is this confusing to you?

The merits of Christ are sufficient to present to the Father in our behalf in order to receive the gift that brings all the blessings of the covenant of grace into our life: the gift of the Holy Spirit, the gift that cannot be excelled.

Is that confusing to you?

PLease read my last post again with that in mind.

sky

Yes, your "message" is very confusing to me. After reading everything you have posted to me on this, I can only see total confusion. It is not right to use Ellen White's writings the way you do and to make them more prominent than the Bible in relating to us "the truth."

Mrs. White's writings have been grossly misused by parents, teachers, preachers and all kinds of other people such as yourself, who have used statements and snippets from them as a theological club with which to bludgeon an offender into submission to your idea of "truth."

we should take our stand by the side of Mrs. White, and not go to extremes in any direction. Many people are turned against the remnant church by the unwise and unwarranted use of sentences and paragraphs lifted out of their context.

1. Do not use the Testimonies as proof for unbelievers (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 119, 120; vol. 5, p. 669).

2. Do not use them as a test of fellowship (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 327-329).

3. Do not use the visions as a rule to measure all (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 382, 383).

4. Do not use the Testimonies as an iron rule or club (Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 369).

5. Do not take the extreme meaning of what has been shown in the visions (Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 166).

6. Do not use the Testimonies to give force to certain subjects to impress them upon others (Manuscript 23, 1911).

Each one of us should keep in mind that, first of all, the Spirit of prophecy counsels are messages to us personally. They were never intended for public fodder in setting others"straight."

There is a growing tendency on the part of some among us to apply the counsels to someone else, and to use certain portions of the Ellen G. White writings as a sort of club over the heads of others. This is not a right or a proper use of the Testimonies. On the part of some, her words are used to give expression to harsh criticism of others. All of this brings to mind the following paragraph:

“There are many whose religion consists in criticising habits of dress and manners. They want to bring every one to their own measure. They desire to lengthen out those who seem too short for their standard, and to cut down others who seem too long. They have lost the love of God out of their hearts; but they think they have a spirit of discernment. They think it is their prerogative to criticise, and pronounce judgment; but they should repent of their error, and turn away from their sins….

We should be in a wretched state if the God of heaven were like one of us, and treated us as we are inclined to treat one another.”—The Review and Herald, Aug. 27, 1889, p. 530.

In my next post i will comment more re the OP of this thread and what you said there, and why your statements are so misleading.

The gospel is about a person. Not a religious theory. Not a bunch of stuff that we do or do not do.

That Person, who is the Center of the gospel is "Jesus, THE Christ." And it's time that we as Christians gave a much brighter message about Jesus, first and foremost, from the Bible.

Are you going to explain Rom 13:10 that I asked about above? I think that would be a very important point to focus on here.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

As far as I know TRADIONAL ADVENTISTS is an Adventist forum, not a public one.

In the book Testimonies to Ministers, there is a section titled "Rejecting the Light."

In this section Mrs. White, in clear, distinct lines, speaks of the light which was resisted at Minneapolis in 1888.

"How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God's righteousness. God has given them His message. They bear the Word of the Lord: There is SALVATION for you but ONLY through the MERITS of Jesus Christ. The grace of the Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again." p.96,97.

This is the very light that was rejected, the light that was to lighten the whole earth with its glory, for, when we approach God through the MERITS of Christ we are accepted int he Beloved and love springs up in the heart. (1 S.M.354,364,389)

Like it or not, this is the message which is to be proclaimed to the professed church one more time and in demonstration of the Spirit and power of God.

Next it will go to the world and swell into a loud cry.

sky

 

[Castaway57]

As far as I know TRADIONAL ADVENTISTS is an Adventist forum, not a public one.

While this is called a forum for "traditional Adventists" it should be well-known thatit is not private in any way, and that anyone from the general public can read here; therefore it is important to pay heed to the principles of mis-use of the testimonies as I have described above. You don't appear to be open to that concept, however, and I think the public should know you do not reflect the official (traditional) Adventist positions here on this subject.

In the book Testimonies to Ministers, there is a section titled "Rejecting the Light."

In this section Mrs. White, in clear, distinct lines, speaks of the light which was resisted at Minneapolis in 1888.

"How long will you hate and despise the messengers of God's righteousness. God has given them His message. They bear the Word of the Lord: There is SALVATION for you but ONLY through the MERITS of Jesus Christ. The grace of the Holy Spirit has been offered to you again and again." p.96,97.

This is the very light that was rejected, the light that was to lighten the whole earth with its glory, for, when we approach God through the MERITS of Christ we are accepted int he Beloved and love springs up in the heart. (1 S.M.354,364,389)

Like it or not, this is the message which is to be proclaimed to the professed church one more time and in demonstration of the Spirit and power of God.

Next it will go to the world and swell into a loud cry.

sky

Using this "like it or not club" with snippets of Ellen White's writings lifted out of their intended context, and not even one scripture verse with it is one of the key concerns I have been addressing. This is a practice that does not find support with official Adventist teachings on this.

we should take our stand by the side of Mrs. White, and not go to extremes in any direction. Many people are turned against the remnant church by the unwise and unwarranted use of sentences and paragraphs lifted out of their context.

1. Do not use the Testimonies as proof for unbelievers (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 119, 120; vol. 5, p. 669).

2. Do not use them as a test of fellowship (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 327-329).

3. Do not use the visions as a rule to measure all (Testimonies, vol. 1, pp. 382, 383).

4. Do not use the Testimonies as an iron rule or club (Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 369).

5. Do not take the extreme meaning of what has been shown in the visions (Testimonies, vol. 1, p. 166).

6. Do not use the Testimonies to give force to certain subjects to impress them upon others (Manuscript 23, 1911).

Each one of us should keep in mind that, first of all, the Spirit of prophecy counsels are messages to us personally. There is a growing tendency on the part of some among us to apply the counsels to someone else, and to use certain portions of the Ellen G. White writings as a sort of club over the heads of others. This is not a right or a proper use of the Testimonies. On the part of far too many these days, her words are used to give expression to harsh criticism of others. All of this brings to mind the following paragraph:

“There are many whose religion consists in criticising habits of dress and manners. They want to bring every one to their own measure. They desire to lengthen out those who seem too short for their standard, and to cut down others who seem too long. They have lost the love of God out of their hearts; but they think they have a spirit of discernment. They think it is their prerogative to criticise, and pronounce judgment; but they should repent of their error, and turn away from their sins…. Let us love one another. Let us have harmony and union throughout our ranks. Let us have our hearts sanctified to God. Let us look upon the light that abides for us in Jesus. Let us remember how forbearing and patient He was with the erring children of men. We should be in a wretched state if the God of heaven were like one of us, and treated us as we are inclined to treat one another.”—The Review and Herald, Aug. 27, 1889, p. 530.

Unfortunately, there are too many people today who isolate a phrase or sentence and place the most extreme interpretation, or their own personal interpretation upon it, and then endeavor to persuade or drive everyone else to the same conclusion. Such have usually failed to study the full counsel, placing statement with statement in an endeavor to find the great underlying principles that should guide to right conclusions. Right conclusions will lead to Jesus, not the sins and mistakes of the church, or of individuals.

Mrs. White maintained a very sensible, well-balanced, middle-of-the-road attitude in everything she taught and in everything she did. That may seem strange when we think of some people who have developed an attitude toward the writings of the Spirit of prophecy that is anything but sensible. The fault is not with Ellen G. White or with her writings. The fault must be somewhere else.

In summary, the Testimonies were written for us individually, and not for us to use on someone else. Most certainly we misrepresent and frequently misinterpret the writings of the Spirit of prophecy when we take a sentence here and a sentence there, a little paragraph here and a little paragraph there, and then put them together out of their context; and apart from any scripture reference, which you frequently do. This is how Ellen White's writings are made to teach what the Spirit of prophecy did not have in mind at all, but what somebody wants to use on his brethren. It is not the correct way to use the writings of Ellen G. White.

Please note carefully the following quotes:

This man took articles that came from my pen, and wholly transformed and distorted them, picking out a sentence here and there, without giving the connection, and then, after inserting his own ideas, he attached my name to them as if they came direct from me. {1SM 61.1} On seeing these articles, we wrote to him, expressing our surprise and disapprobation, and forbidding him thus to misconstrue my testimonies. {1SM 61.2}

Satan will continue to bring in his erroneous theories and to claim that his sentiments are true. Seducing spirits are at work. I am to meet the danger positively, denying the right of anyone to use my writings to serve the devil's purpose to allure and deceive the people of God. {3SM 73.3}

Ellen White herself gave some pretty serious warnings about what you are doing. perhaps I am not the one who is "rejecting the message?"

 

[Castaway57]

I do intend to address the original post as soon as time permits. "The truth that remains" is certainly worth exploring.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

Are you going to explain Rom 13:10 that I asked about above? I think that would be a very important point to focus on here.
__________________

I already have. It says that love is the fulfillment of the law.

I gave you these statements:

"Righteousness is obedience to the law." F.W.101

"Righteousness is love." M.B.18

"Righteousness is right doing." C.O.L.312

If righteousness is love and love is the fulfillment of the law it follows that righteousness and love are one and the same thing.

"Righteousness is love and love is the light and the life of God." M.B.18.

And how is this righteousness or love obtained?

"God will accept every one that comes to Him trusting wholly in the MERITS of the crucified and risen Savior. Love springs up in the heart." 1 S.M.354.

sky

"The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the
Holy Spirit which is given unto us." Rom.5:5.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we
appropriate the blessings of light and peace and
joy in the Holy Spirit." 5 T 744

sky

 

[Castaway57]

Are you going to explain Rom 13:10 that I asked about above? I think that would be a very important point to focus on here.
__________________

I already have. It says that love is the fulfillment of the law.

I gave you these statements:

"Righteousness is obedience to the law." F.W.101

"Righteousness is love." M.B.18

"Righteousness is right doing." C.O.L.312

If righteousness is love and love is the fulfillment of the law it follows that righteousness and love are one and the same thing.

"Righteousness is love and love is the light and the life of God." M.B.18.

And how is this righteousness or love obtained?

"God will accept every one that comes to Him trusting wholly in the MERITS of the crucified and risen Savior. Love springs up in the heart." 1 S.M.354.

sky

"The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the
Holy Spirit which is given unto us." Rom.5:5.

"Looking unto Jesus and trusting in His merits we
appropriate the blessings of light and peace and
joy in the Holy Spirit." 5 T 744

sky

I specifically asked about the word "fulfilment" as used in Rom 13:10. No matter how carefully you choose your quotes, and no matter how you word it, to continue refusing to use the scriptures for reference here is to is obey Ellen White's own stated intentions of right use of her writings.

 

[rainbowinthesky]

"The testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages
givien, as Scripture is explained by Scripture." Selected Messages, Vol.1,42.


"God is love." 1 John 4:8.

"Love is the fulfillment of the law." Rom.13:10.

"The love of God is shed abroad in our hearts
by the Holy Spirit who is given unto us." Rom.5:5.

"Christ is God over all blessed forever." Rom.9:5.

"Christ in you the hope of glory." Col.1:27.

"It is God who works in you both to will and to do His good pleasure." Phil.2:13.

It is God through Christ by the Holy Spirit.

God's good pleasure is expressed in the precepts of His holy law.

"All Your commandments are righteousness." Psalm 119:172.

Now from the SoP:

"Righteousness is LOVE and love is the light and the life of God" and "the life of God in the soul is man's only hope." M.B.18; M.H.115.

Therefore:

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness. This the sinner owes to the law but he is incapable of rendeing it. The only way he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can BRING to God the MERITS of His Son." Faith & Works,101.

"The love (righteousness) which Christ diffuses through the whole being is a vitalizing power. Every vital part, the brain, the heart, the nerves, it touches with healing. By it the highest energies of the being are roused to activity. It frees the soul from the anxiety and care, the guilt and sorry, that crush the life forces. With it come serenity and composure. It implants in the soul, joy that nothing earthly can destroy, JOY IN THE HOLY SPIRIT, health-giving, life-giving joy." Ministry of Healing,115.

This is the righteousness which is of God by faith, by trusting wholly in the MERITS of the blood of a crucified and risen Saviour. (Phil.3:9; Rom.3:25)

Thus we read:

"God will accept everyone that comes to Him trusting wholly in the MERITS of the blood of the crucified Saviour. LOVE SPRINGS UP IN THE HEART. There may be no ecstasy of feeling but there is an abiding, peaceful trust. Duty becomes a delight and sacrifice a pleasure. The path that before seemed shrouded in darkness becomes bright with the beams from the Sun of Righteousness. This is walking in the light as He is in the light." Selected Messages, Vol.1,354.

This is the teaching of righteousness according to rigtheousness through faith in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour.

This teaching has in it not one thread of human devisings.

sky

 

[Castaway57]

"The testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages
givien, as Scripture is explained by Scripture." Selected Messages, Vol.1,42.

"Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness. This the sinner owes to the law but he is incapable of rendeing it. The only way he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can BRING to God the MERITS of His Son." Faith & Works,101.

This is the teaching of righteousness according to rigtheousness through faith in the merits of a crucified and risen Saviour.

This teaching has in it not one thread of human devisings.

sky

It actually does have "human devisings" when one lifts a phrase or sentence out of context, and makes that phrase to determine just how a particular doctrine or belief is defined.

In this example I quote above from you, where you stated 2 sentences from Faith & Works, pg 101, you gave a wrong picture of the matter before us. Here is the entire paragraph where you got those 2 sentences from:

"Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness" (Romans 4:3-5). Righteousness is obedience to the law. The law demands righteousness, and this the sinner owes to the law; but he is incapable of rendering it. The only way in which he can attain to righteousness is through faith. By faith he can bring to God the merits of Christ, and the Lord places the obedience of His Son to the sinner's account. Christ's righteousness is accepted in place of man's failure, and God receives, pardons, justifies, the repentant, believing soul, treats him as though he were righteous, and loves him as He loves His Son. This is how faith is accounted righteousness; and the pardoned soul goes on from grace to grace, from light to a greater light. He can say with rejoicing, "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; which He shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; that being justified by His grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life" (Titus 3:5-7). {FW 101.1}

By lifting only the two sentences out of that paragraph; it sounds like the message is saying that the only way we can be righteous is to obey the law; yet when we consider what else Ellen White says on the matter; we see it is Christ's obedience to the law which is deposited to our 'account.' ("not by works of righteousness which we have done"). ("Christ's righteousness is accepted in place of man's failure"). If you really believed "The testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages
givien, as Scripture is explained by Scripture." Selected Messages, Vol.1,42; then you would not make doctrines out of sentences and phrases lifted out of context. Note carefully:

The law of love being the foundation of the government of God, the happiness of all intelligent beings depends upon their perfect accord with its great principles of righteousness. God desires
from all His creatures the service of love—service that springs from an appreciation of His character. He takes no pleasure in a forced obedience, and to all He grants freedom of will, that they may render Him voluntary service.—Patriarchs and Prophets, pp. 33, 34. {CTr 7.6}

The two sentences you lifted from that paragraph, when posted by themselves, make it sound like we are saved by "obeying" and this simply is not the case. The reason John 17:3 say that it is eternal life to KNOW God and whom He has sent, is for this very purpose. That we might render obedience because of our love for Him. Righteousness will result in obedience, but obedience, in and of itself does not make us "righteous, and we need to have far less of lifting Ellen White's phrases and sentences out of their intended context and to stop making her out to say our personal interpretations of the gospel

:But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. (Eph 2:13)

 

[rainbowinthesky]

You can't be serious!!!

To claim that I have misused The Writings
in what I have posted in this thread is
totally ludicrous.

sky

 

[Castaway57]

You can't be serious!!!

To claim that I have misused The Writings
in what I have posted in this thread is
totally ludicrous.

sky

I am serious; and I showed you why. You could just tell us why I am "wrong."

There is perhaps no subject more misunderstood in Seventh-day Adventist beliefs than the question of the proper relationship between the writings of Ellen G. White and those of Scripture.

There has been some confusion about, the flagrant abuse and misuse of, Mrs. White's writings. Some members have indeed made a second Bible of them, often seeming to make Mrs. White the more important of the two. Some ministers and teachers have quoted Mrs. White ten or more times for every quotation from Scripture; some have even preached "freight-train" sermons (the locomotive is the sermon's introduction, followed by a string of freight cars--quotations from Mrs. White; bringing up the rear is the caboose, the conclusion of the sermon). The frustration and irritation experienced by a motorist who is held up by a long, slow freight train is almost identical to the feelings of exasperation and anger on the part of one forced to listen to this kind of homiletical monstrosity.

Mrs. White's writings have been grossly misused by parents, teachers, preachers and all kinds of other people who have used statements from them as a theological club with which to bludgeon an offender into submission.

This man took articles that came from my pen, and wholly transformed and distorted them, picking out a sentence here and there, without giving the connection, and then, after inserting his own ideas, he attached my name to them as if they came direct from me. {1SM 61.1} On seeing these articles, we wrote to him, expressing our surprise and disapprobation, and forbidding him thus to misconstrue my testimonies. {1SM 61.2}

Your obedience based gospel is wrong!!

 

[Castaway57]

And the reason it's wrong is because you wont use the testimonies correctly, the way EGW told us to use them.

 

[Castaway57]

Whatever may be said or claimed in regard to Seventh-day Adventism or Ellen G. White or anything connected with them and their history, the truth remains and that is that the ONLY WAY to attain to righteousness (and righteousness is love and love is the fulfilment of the law,,, Rom.13:10; 5:5; Gal.5:6)

The last two scripture references you provided here don't even say this; only Rom 13:10 does. We need to think more seriously what the scripture means here by "fulfill."

 

[rainbowinthesky]

What I find "exasperating" (to use your own words) about your posts is that you keep talkng about "my obedience based gospel" and my "using the SoP as a club" or that the Testimonies should not even be used at all!!!

All of these claims are false.

The only conclusion I can come to is that you must be driven by some agenda. I have been away for a couple of months. You must be new to this forum for I don't remember this user name.

I agree that there is such a thing as a wrong use of the Testimonies but that indicates that there is a right use of them as shown in the following statement:

"The testimonies themselves will be the key that will explain the messages given as Scripture is explained by Scripture. Many will read with eagerness the messages reproving wrong, that they may learn what they must do to be saved. Light will dawn upon the understanding, and the Spirit will make an impression on minds, as Bible truth is clearly and simply presented in the messages that since 1846 God has been sending to His people. These messages are to find their place in hearts, and transformations will take place." 1 S.M.42.

The admonition is that we are to compare statement with statement, one statement explaining another statement as Scripture is explained by Scripture.

This is what I have done for years and it has paid off.

I have not used the Testimonies as a club and I DO NOT teach salvation
by works.

For you to make these claims is, like I said, totally ludicrous.

I believe and teach in salvation but only through the merits of Jesus Christ.

Through faith in the merits of Christ we receive His righteousness
which is made manifest in obedience to all the commandments of
God.

This is what I believe and teach.

And I also have made it crystal clear that the works of obedience
which the righteousness of Christ or the grace of God enables us
to do DO NOT play a part in the salvation of the soul or in merit.
God will reward these good works but in and of themselves they have
no merit toward our salvation. Only the merits of Jesus will avail in our behalf.

This is what I believe and teach and nothing else.

sky