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The Truth About Salvation From Sin

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nagantmosin

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Brothers and Sisters,

When we first repented of our sins, and First believed on the Lord, the forgiveness and cleansing was real to us. We knew that the Lord was OUR Lord, and that He died for our sins. WE WILL NEVER BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE SINS THAT WE COMMITTED BEFORE WE FIRST BELIEVED AND BECAME CHILDREN OF GOD. We were "Saved" from our sins by the blood of God's Lamb, which cleansed us. This is irrevocable, unchangeable, and lasts forever. It is God's gift by His love and favor. I doubt anyone who reads this will disagree.
Most of the "churches" teach this, and I rejoice in that. But there is much, much more that we need to learn than just being "saved" from our past sins. Though we are forgiven of those past sins, we need our Lord to deliver us from PRESENT SIN. We not only need forgiveness for our past sins, but also for our daily sins after we believed--after we were "born from above" by the Holy Spirit and believed on Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour.
We are not "saved" at our initial believing in the Lord, and then it is over with (as so many teach). That is just the BEGINNING of our LIFE OF SALVATION, for God intends for us to look to Him ALWAYS, ALL OF OUR LIVES FOR DELIVERANCE!
(I am going to use the word "deliverance" from now on, for it more accurately conveys the meaning of the Original in the Greek. I also use it because we have been indoctrinated with this idea that we were "saved" when we first believed on the Lord, and thus, our "salvation" is over.)

Here is the True deliverance from God:
"Brothers, I am telling you the Good News which I've already told you. You accepted it and you are still staying with it. IF YOU HOLD ON TO THE GOOD NEWS WHICH I TOLD YOU, THEN, THROUGH IT, YOU ARE BEING DELIVERED..." (1 Cor 15) You see, we need to be delivered every day, every minute, every second from the temptation, deception, and guilt of our own sin. We need to "hold on" to Christ for forgiveness and deliverance. It is not over with when we first believed. Christ is alive! He is the High Priest that intercedes for us NOW, if we trust in Him to help us. If we trust in Him to deliver us. If we think that we do not need Him to deliver us now, we deceive ourselves, and Peter says that we are "blind, and have forgotten the cleansing of our old sins".

You probably agree with all of this so far. Here is the "hard" part.
"IF we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us of our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." (1John). "He that covers up his transgressions shall not prosper; he that confesses and forsakes them shall find mercy". (Prov)
Let me quote this passage from Hebrews 10 again, and let it sink in. Chew on it. BELIEVE GOD, DO NOT TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.

Paul warned us about believers that turn away from God's present, delivering power, and live in WILLFUL SIN:
"We have received the truth; we know it. If we continue SINNING ON PURPOSE, there will be NO MORE SACRIFICES FOR SIN, only a TERRIBLE WAITING FOR JUDGMENT AND FOR THE GREAT FIRE to burn up the enemies of God. If someone did not want to obey the law of Moses, and two or three people said that this was true, then that person died without mercy. Who deserves more punishment than that? THE PERSON WHO WALKS ALL OVER THE SON OF GOD, WHO THINKS THAT THE BLOOD WHICH MADE HIM HOLY IS UNHOLY, WHO INSULTS THE LOVING SPIRIT. We know who said this:
"Revenge belongs to Me; I will pay it back." (Dt. 32.35)
Again,
"THE LORD GOD WILL JUDGE HIS PEOPLE." (Dt. 32:36)
It is a terrible thing to fall in to the hands of the
living God
".
(Heb. 10:26-31

This passage in Hebrews 10 is addressed to CHILDREN OF GOD; BELIEVERS
1.) Paul said, "if WE continue sinning on purpose..." The "WE" is Paul, you, I, and all other believers.
2.) these "willful sinning believers" treat "the BLOOD WHICH MADE THEM HOLY" as unholy.
This is a horrible thing for a child of God to do, and yet the world is full of those that do it. They continue on in sin after they are first delivered. They do not depend on God's grace and power to keep them from sin. Even if there is no outward, blatant sin in their lives, their hearts practice it. They have "secret sin" that they go on living in, not confessing nor forsaking it. Their speech gives them away, for "out of the abundance of the heart, the man speaks".
Peter says, "It would have been better for them not to have known the WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS (trusting in God for help and deliverance) than to have known it, and to turn away from the HOLY COMMANDMENT (BE HOLY!) that was delivered to them. It has happened to them just like the true proverb,
'the dog turns back to its own vomit,
and the pig that was washed to rolling in the mud'." (2 Pet 2:21-22).

You see, God will judge those children that do not confess AND FORSAKE their sin. This judgment will occur at the Judgment Seat of Christ, when He comes and establishes His real, literal kingdom on earth. (More details on this later, if you wish).

Let's look at a parable that teaches how Christ will deal with sinful believers at His Return:





Parable of the "Unforgiving Slave"

"Then Peter came to Jesus and said, 'Lord, how many times must I forgive my BROTHER when he sins against me? Seven times?'
Jesus said to him, "I am not saying seven, but seven times seventy! The kingdom of heaven will be like a man who is ruling. He wanted to make His servants give an account. When the audit began, a man who owed the ruler several million dollars came to him. The man could not repay. So, the master ordered that his wife, children, and everything he owned be sold to pay the debt. The servant fell down and began bowing to him. He said, 'Be patient with me! I will pay you back everything! ' The master felt sorry for that servant. He cancelled his debt and allowed him to leave.
However, the same servant went out and found another servant who owed him three month's wages. He grabbed that servant and began to choke him, saying, 'Pay me what you owe me!' The servant fell down and began to beg him, 'Be patient with me! I will pay you back!' But he wouldn't do it. Instead, he went and threw the servant in jail until he could repay what he owed.
When the other servants saw what had taken place, they felt very sad. They went and told the whole story to their master. Then the master of the first servant came to him and said, 'You evil servant! You begged me, so I cancelled your whole debt. You should have given mercy to your fellow servant as I did to you!'
The master became very angry. He HANDED THE SERVANT OVER TO SOME MEN TO PUNISH HIM, UNTIL HE PAID BACK EVERYTHING HE OWED. MY HEAVENLY FATHER WILL TREAT YOU THE SAME WAY, IF EACH OF YOU DOES NOT FORGIVE HIS BROTHER FROM HIS HEART" (Matt 18:21-35).

All were slaves. One slave that was forgiven would not forgive one of his fellow-slaves. The master was angry with him, because THE MASTER HAD FORGIVEN THE UNFORGIVING SLAVE OF A GREAT DEBT. Yet the slave could not find it in his heart to love his fellow-slaves.
The Master PUNISHED HIM UNTIL HE PAID BACK ALL OF THE WRONG THAT HE HAD DONE. A picture of the coming judgment. No unbelievers mentioned here. A brother not fogiving another brother.
These believers forget the precious blood of God that was shed for them and provided forgiveness for them! They treat God's sacrifice of His Son with contempt! God will repay. Christ said to HIS DISCIPLES (believers) "if you forgive people of the things they have done wrong to you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. However, if you do not forgive people, then your Father will not forgive the wrong things which you have done." (Mat 5:14-15)

This teaching is abundant throughout the whole Bible. We can look at further proof, if you like.

Favor be with you.

Chandler







 

hraedisc

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Why would a lover of Christ have unconfessed and unforsaken sins?

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]"He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." Proverbs 28:13. [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The conditions of obtaining mercy of God are simple and just and reasonable. The Lord does not require us to do some grievous thing in order that we may have the forgiveness of sin. We need not make long and wearisome pilgrimages, or perform painful penances, to commend our souls to the God of heaven or to expiate our transgression; but he that confesseth and forsaketh his sin shall have mercy. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Those who have not humbled their souls before God in acknowledging their guilt, have not yet [/font][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]fulfilled the first condition of acceptance. If we have not experienced that repentance which is not to be repented of, and have not with true humiliation of soul and brokenness of spirit confessed our sins, abhorring our iniquity, we have never truly sought for the forgiveness of sin; and if we have never sought, we have never found the peace of God. The only reason why we do not have remission of sins that are past is that we are not willing to humble our hearts and comply with the conditions of the word of truth. Explicit instruction is given concerning this matter. Confession of sin, whether public or private, should be heartfelt and freely expressed. It is not to be urged from the sinner. It is not to be made in a flippant and careless way, or forced from those who have no realizing sense of the abhorrent character of sin. The confession that is the outpouring of the inmost soul finds its way to the God of infinite pity. The psalmist says, "The Lord is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit." Psalm 34:18. [/font]
[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]True confession is always of a specific character, and acknowledges particular sins. They may be of such a nature as to be brought before God only; they may be wrongs that should be confessed to individuals who have suffered injury through them; or they may be of a public character, and should then be as publicly confessed. But all confession should be definite and to the point, acknowledging the very sins of which you are guilty. [/font]

[font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Confession will not be acceptable to God without sincere repentance and reformation. There must be decided changes in the life; everything offensive to God must be put away. This will be the result of genuine sorrow for sin. The work that we have to do on our part is plainly set before us: "Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before Mine eyes; cease to do evil; learn to do well; seek judgment, relieve the oppressed, judge the fatherless, plead for the widow." Isaiah 1:16, 17. "If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die." Ezekiel 33:15. Paul says, speaking of the work of repentance: "Ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter." 2 Corinthians 7:11. [/font]
 
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steve@OU

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Hello <><,

I think you were directing your post to me, but I am unsure. However, I feel that I need to clarify what exactly was in question of nagantmosin's post. I will try to keep this post brief.

nagantmosin said:
Though we are forgiven of those past sins, we need our Lord to deliver us from PRESENT SIN. We not only need forgiveness for our past sins, but also for our daily sins after we believed--after we were "born from above" by the Holy Spirit and believed on Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour.
nagantmosin said:
We are not "saved" at our initial believing in the Lord, and then it is over with (as so many teach).


In my earlier post I wrote, "...do you believe that one unconfessed sin can keep someone from the salvific grace of God?" Upon asking this question, I did not assert that I believed this. I was using it as a basis of dialogue between nagantmosin and myself.

I question the above passage because the author presents an explanation of justification. Now, I believe that once we are regenerated, we are forgiven for past, present, and future sins. At this time, the Father declares us righteous and views Christ as in our place.

I believe the atonement has three qualities: satisfaction, substitution, and infinite value. Satisfaction of God's wrath. Substitution of Christ's death for ours. Infinite value with no end to its intrinsic worth.

With this explanation, I hope I communicated clearly my reason of asking my previous question.

Thanks,
steve
 
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hraedisc

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herev said:
There is therefore no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus (Rom 8:1)
Yes, but how shall we understand that text? It doesn't contradict these words from the same author. Notice the TWO OPTIONS:

ROMANS 8
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For (1) if you (Christian brethren) live according to the flesh you will die; but (2) if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

ROMANS 6
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether (1) of sin leading to death, or (2) of obedience leading to righteousness?
 
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steve@OU

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Here lets look at Hebrews 10:38 - "Now the just shall live by faith: if any man draw back, My soul shall have no pleasure in him."

Another example in Hebrews 10:26 - "For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

The opposite of faith is drawing away in sin, which nothing can be more contrary. The truest character of faith is one that draws a believer into an utmost obedience to the Almighty, even when drawn away by the sinful lust of his own nature.

God uses warnings, such as these above and those you quoted from Romans, to secure the salvation of the elect. In these verses, the author addresses Christians with conditional statements on the covenant. To draw a conclusion from this statement that the elect can fall away, or draw back into sin, would err and would not be legitimate. Such an argument, would completely contradict John 10 as Jesus states that the sheep shall never perish and Romans 8 as Paul writes that nothing can separate us from the love of God.

Therefore, the author in Hebrews affirms this position as he writes in Hebrews 10:39 - "But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."



steve
 
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hraedisc

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BK-CSMC.JPG

If there is an unconditional future security for all believers, it has to be the most wonderful doctrine in existence: but if it is not true, it surely is one of the most dangerous heresies in the world.

http://www.amazingfacts.org/items/Read_Media.asp?ID=656&x=30&y=28
 
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herev

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<>< said:
Yes, but how shall we understand that text? It doesn't contradict these words from the same author. Notice the TWO OPTIONS:

ROMANS 8
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For (1) if you (Christian brethren) live according to the flesh you will die; but (2) if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

ROMANS 6
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether (1) of sin leading to death, or (2) of obedience leading to righteousness?
sorry to take so long to respond, I forgot about this post.
that's one interpretation, and it wouldn't help me sleep at night
we have to put those two verses together with Romans 8:1 (among others) that indicate that once we have been saved by His blood, God doesn't see our sin anymore. Paul pushes us to live according to righteous living, but he himself declared that he stuggled with his own flesh. Does that suggest that if Paul died with one unconfessed sin, he went to hell?
What if we sin as a last thought before death? Since we are all sinners--yes, that is scriptural--none would enter into the heavenly realm with Jesus.
I personally believe that what Jesus did is big enough to cover my sins and that fear has no place in my life. I am forgiven, not perfect.
God help me if I ever believe that I am.
God bless!
Rev. Tommy Conder
 
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hraedisc

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I gave no interpretation. You did. I reject yours and accept the word of God as it reads. Hope you believe the Bible, too.

ROMANS 8
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For (1) if you (Christian brethren) live according to the flesh you will die; but (2) if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

ROMANS 6
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether (1) of sin leading to death, or (2) of obedience leading to righteousness?
 
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herev

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<>< said:
I gave no interpretation. You did. I reject yours and accept the word of God as it reads. Hope you believe the Bible, too.

ROMANS 8
12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For (1) if you (Christian brethren) live according to the flesh you will die; but (2) if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

ROMANS 6
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey, whether (1) of sin leading to death, or (2) of obedience leading to righteousness?
I'll take your word for it, sorry. One question, though, when it speaks of live and die, is that spiritual or physical?
 
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hraedisc

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herev said:
One question, though, when it speaks of live and die, is that spiritual or physical?
How readest thou?

Die:

Revelation 2:11
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Live:

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
1 Corinthians 15:21-23
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

2 Corinthians 5
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

1 Corinthians 15
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Luke 20
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
37 Now that the dead are raised...
 
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herev

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<>< said:
How readest thou?

Die:

Revelation 2:11
He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.
Revelation 21:8
But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars–their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death."

Live:

John 6:40
For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
1 Corinthians 15:21-23
For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

2 Corinthians 5
1 For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.
2 For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven:
3 If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.
4 For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.

1 Corinthians 15
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

Luke 20
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
37 Now that the dead are raised...
and so your answer is?
 
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kel32

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herev said:
we have to put those two verses together with Romans 8:1 (among others) that indicate that once we have been saved by His blood, God doesn't see our sin anymore.
Herev,

If your above statement refers to our past sins, prior to our relationship with God, then I agree. But if you are asserting that after we come into our relationship with Him, that He "doesn't see our sin anymore', then that is quite contrary to God's Truth.

~peace~
 
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Philippians 1:6 being confident of this very thing, that He[H.S.] which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Christ

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;..................

Good news good news that EXTRA GOOD NEWS!!!
 
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hraedisc

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According to your thinking, Jesus caused Judas kill himself. Jesus was the author and finisher of that? Is that the end of our faith? To commit suicide?

Matthew 27
3 Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself.
 
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