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The True Meaning Behind the Confederate Flag
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<blockquote data-quote="Tolkien R.R.J" data-source="post: 73695558" data-attributes="member: 411644"><p><strong>Western States Free or Slave?</strong></p><p></p><p><em>“<em>The one great evil, from which all other evils have flowed, is the overthrow of the Constitution of the United States. The Government of the United States is no longer the government of Confederated Republics, but of a consolidated Democracy. It is, in face such a Government as Great Britain attempted to set over our Fathers; and which was resisted and defeated by a seven years’ struggle for independence. </em>....The great object of the Constitution of the United States, in its internal operation, was, doubtless, to secure the great end of the Revolution — –a limited free Government– — a Government limited to those matters only, which were general and common to all portions of the United States. All sectional or local interests were to be left to the States.... the limitations in the Constitution have been swept away; and the Government of the United States has become consolidated, with a claim of limitless powers in its operations.</em> <em>”</em></p><p><em><em>-Address of South Carolina to Slave-holding States </em>Convention of South Carolina 1860</em></p><p></p><p>That when the settlers in a Territory, having an adequate population, form a State Constitution, the right of sovereignty commences, and being consummated by admission into the Union, they stand on an equal footing with the people of other States, and the State thus organized ought to be admitted into the Federal Union, whether its Constitution prohibits or recognizes the institution of slavery.</p><p>-Southern Democrat Party Platform 1860</p><p></p><p>The fight over new western territories was a battle over the very nature of the federal government. Were these states coming into the union allowed their state sovereignty and states rights as had all previous states, or was the federal government allowed to violate those rights and dictate the states? Where states sovereign or subject to a federal master? The republicans and Lincoln said they would not allow new states the rights granted in the constitution to decide on the issue of slavery. What the south asked for was that these new states coming in be allowed on their own to chose. Was the federal allowed to bar slave holders and their property from entering the new territories thus giving political control to the north, ensuring their political and economic agenda? The end results the south would no longer be represented by its government and the constitution would be abolished and replaced by a democracy.</p><p></p><p></p><p><strong>Fight Over the Expansion of Slavery- A Fight to Control the Government and Agrarians vs Industrialist</strong></p><p></p><p>“<em>They are now divided, between agricultural–and manufacturing, and commercial States; between slaveholding and non-slaveholding States. Their institutions and industrial pursuits, have made them, totally different peoples.”</em></p><p><em>-Address of South Carolina to Slaveholding States Convention of South Carolina 1860</em></p><p></p><p><em>“<em>It has given indubitable evidence of its design to ruin our agriculture, to prostrate our industrial pursuits and to destroy our social system.”</em></em></p><p><em>-Mississippi Declaration for Causes of Secession</em></p><p></p><p>“<em>The struggle over the expansion of slavery into the territories....was almost a purely political issue”</em></p><p><em>-Robert William Fogel The rise and Fall of American Slavery</em></p><p></p><p>The Souths primarily agrarian and agricultural lifestyle contrasted with the growing northern industrial and urban lifestyle led to difference of opinion on culture, education, religion, role of government, tariffs, trade policies, internal improvements and many other differences. There were as many factories in the north, as there were factories workers in the south. From Americans agrarian roots the south had “little dynamic change, weather through immigration, the growth of new cities or new industrial manufacturing, was allowed to come in and stir up the pot.”</p><p></p><p>[For a in depth look at the cultural, political and religious differences between agrarians and industrialist see here Southern Agrarians- did America Lose its Liberty When it Lost its Agrarian Roots? <a href="http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?513086-Southern-Agrarians-did-America-Lose-its-Liberty-When-it-Lost-its-Agrarian-Roots" target="_blank">Southern Agrarians- did America Lose its Liberty When it Lost its Agrarian Roots?</a> ]</p><p></p><p>“<em>Ours is an agricultural people, and God grant that we may continue so. We never want to see it otherwise. It is the freest, happiest, most independent , and, with us, the most powerful condition on earth”</em></p><p><em>-Montgomery Daily Confederation 1858</em></p><p></p><p>“<em>1850's southern agrarians had mounted a counter attack against the gospel of industrialization”</em></p><p><em>-James McPherson Battle cry of freedom</em></p><p></p><p>“<em>Leisure orientated agrarian society is the antithesis to materialistic northern life”</em></p><p><em>-Rapheal Semmes CSA navy commander</em></p><p></p><p>As argued in the book “I'll Take my Stand the south and the agrarian tradition.” The main cause of the war was the fight over western territories coming into the union. All men are created equal, so slave owners had just as much rights to go into the territories [federal owned land] as northerns did. Before the civil war northern big business and industry needed industrial workers for factories for expansion, not farmers and planters. <em>If these states were allowed to decide on their own slave or free, than the south might maintain agrarian, free trade, policies.</em></p><p></p><p><em>“<em>The political and economic implication of agrarian expansion westward were alarming to certain mercantile interests in the east who red the loss of their political and economic control of an expanding America”</em></em></p><p><em>-Merrill Jensen The New Nation Northeastern University Press</em></p><p></p><p>“<em>The struggle in our territories between the free and slaveholding States, has not been a struggle for the emancipation of slaves. It has been a contest for power, between the two great sections of the Union...The Southern people, in claiming a right to settle in territories with their slaves, assert a right sanctioned by the Constitution. The Northern people, in attempting to preclude the Southern people, by the legislation of Congress from our territories, war against the Constitution. This is the declaration of the Supreme Court of the United States. If the Northern position has prevailed by the late Presidential election, as the Northern people maintain, it has overthrown the Constitution. For by this result, a party hostile both to the Constitution and the decisions of the Supreme Court, have been placed in control of the Government. This alone would justify a dissolution of the Union....Whether all the States composing the United States, should be slaveholding or non-slaveholding States, neither the Northern nor Southern States ought to have permitted to be a question in the politics of the United States. ”</em></p><p><em>-Repot on the confederate committee of foreign affairs 1861</em></p><p></p><p>If they were to all become free, than northern industrialist would dominate congress and high tariffs, protective tariffs and internal improvements would rise. Both the industrialist and the southern planters backed politicians in the fight over western territories. Northern politicians thought slavery “Stifled technological progress, inhibited industrialization, and thwarted urbanization” and would lead to the “Destruction of all industry” Something had to happen.</p><p></p><p><em>“Professor Holt quotes Ohio Congressman Joshua Giddings explaining: “To give the south the preponderance of political power would be itself to surrender our tariff, our internal improvements [a.k.a. corporate welfare], our distribution of proceeds of public lands . . .”</em></p><p><em>-Micheal Holt The Fate of Their Country: Politicians, Slavery Extension, and the Coming of the Civil War quoted by Thomas j Dilorenzo</em></p><p></p><p>“<em><em>Theodore Weld declared that the South had to be wiped out because it is “the foe to Northern industry—to our mines, our manufactures, our commerce.”</em></em></p><p><em>-Clyde Wilson Professor of History at the University of South Carolina</em></p><p></p><p>“<em>The game plan of northern industrialist, who were fighting not for black freedom, but for the freedom to exploit and devolve the American market...The only people who could say “free at last” after the civil war were northern industrialist and their allies”</em></p><p><em>-Lerone Vennett JR Forced into Glory Abraham Lincolns White Dream</em></p><p></p><p>The industrialist “hired” politicians to go anti-slavery and pro industrial expansion, fighting hard for western states to go anti slavery. Former slave trader James De Wolf became anti slavery when he started manufacturing companies. All of a sudden he wanted internal improvements and protective tariffs. The south wanted agrarian lifestyle, free trade, and states to decide on slavery. So as was said “The south had to be crushed out, it was in the way, it impeded the progress of the machine” if slavery could be abolished, than southern agrarian representation in congress would be reduced, if not</p><p></p><p><em>“<em>Then the old whig economic agenda of protectionist tariffs, corporate welfare, and central banking, which had become the republican agenda, would continue to fail in congress”</em></em></p><p><em>-Thomas J Dilorenzo Lincoln Unmasked</em></p><p></p><p>“The more the north became industrialized, the more the need arose for stronger national government to support its growth and finical interests.” The industrialist wanted higher tariffs as well to slow the flow of trade <em>on the Mississippi. </em>They instead wanted trade to flow west through railroads supported by higher tariffs and internal improvements. Northern General Sherman said the civil war was a war between agriculturalist vs mechanics. Confederate General Jubal Early said Lee's army was defeated by “Steam power, railroads, mechanism, and all the resources of physical science”</p><p></p><p><em>The freeing of the slaves was “Only an accident in the violent clash of interests between the Industrial north and the Agricultural south”</em></p><p><em>-African American Ralph Bunche</em></p><p></p><p>“<em>The south saw the attack on the issue of slavery not so much as an attempt to end slavery in the united states as much as an attempt to end southern influence in the national government”</em></p><p><em><em>-Walter D Kennedy Myths of American slavery</em></em></p><p></p><p>In the book Clash of Extremes: The Economic Origins of the Civil War by Marc Egnal he said “Economics more than high moral concerns produced the civil war.” The heart of the war was economical differences growing between the protectionist, manufacturing northeast and the free trade agrarian south. In the book I'll take my stand a book on southern agrarian life, the authors argue if no other differences, the war would have still happened over industrial vs agrarian interests. The industrialist won. After the war the north profit went up 45% the south down 15%.</p><p></p><p><em>“<em>Military defeat moved the scepter of wealth from the agrarian south to the industrial north”</em></em></p><p><em>-Robert William Fogel The Rise and Fall of American Slavery </em></p><p></p><p><em>“<em>If the North triumphs, it is not alone the destruction of our property; it is the prelude to anarchy,infidelity, the ultimate loss of free and responsible government on this continent. It is the triumph of commerce, the banks, factories. ”</em></em></p><p><em>-Confederate Gen. Thomas Jonathan “Stonewall” Jackson</em></p><p></p><p>“<em>Southern movement was a revolt of conservatism against the modernism of the north” a “Reaction to industry.”</em></p><p><em>-E Merton Coulter The Confederate States of America Louisiana State university press</em></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tolkien R.R.J, post: 73695558, member: 411644"] [B]Western States Free or Slave?[/B] [I]“[I]The one great evil, from which all other evils have flowed, is the overthrow of the Constitution of the United States. The Government of the United States is no longer the government of Confederated Republics, but of a consolidated Democracy. It is, in face such a Government as Great Britain attempted to set over our Fathers; and which was resisted and defeated by a seven years’ struggle for independence. [/I]....The great object of the Constitution of the United States, in its internal operation, was, doubtless, to secure the great end of the Revolution — –a limited free Government– — a Government limited to those matters only, which were general and common to all portions of the United States. All sectional or local interests were to be left to the States.... the limitations in the Constitution have been swept away; and the Government of the United States has become consolidated, with a claim of limitless powers in its operations.[/I] [I]” [I]-Address of South Carolina to Slave-holding States [/I]Convention of South Carolina 1860[/I] That when the settlers in a Territory, having an adequate population, form a State Constitution, the right of sovereignty commences, and being consummated by admission into the Union, they stand on an equal footing with the people of other States, and the State thus organized ought to be admitted into the Federal Union, whether its Constitution prohibits or recognizes the institution of slavery. -Southern Democrat Party Platform 1860 The fight over new western territories was a battle over the very nature of the federal government. Were these states coming into the union allowed their state sovereignty and states rights as had all previous states, or was the federal government allowed to violate those rights and dictate the states? Where states sovereign or subject to a federal master? The republicans and Lincoln said they would not allow new states the rights granted in the constitution to decide on the issue of slavery. What the south asked for was that these new states coming in be allowed on their own to chose. Was the federal allowed to bar slave holders and their property from entering the new territories thus giving political control to the north, ensuring their political and economic agenda? The end results the south would no longer be represented by its government and the constitution would be abolished and replaced by a democracy. [B]Fight Over the Expansion of Slavery- A Fight to Control the Government and Agrarians vs Industrialist[/B] “[I]They are now divided, between agricultural–and manufacturing, and commercial States; between slaveholding and non-slaveholding States. Their institutions and industrial pursuits, have made them, totally different peoples.” -Address of South Carolina to Slaveholding States Convention of South Carolina 1860[/I] [I]“[I]It has given indubitable evidence of its design to ruin our agriculture, to prostrate our industrial pursuits and to destroy our social system.”[/I] -Mississippi Declaration for Causes of Secession[/I] “[I]The struggle over the expansion of slavery into the territories....was almost a purely political issue” -Robert William Fogel The rise and Fall of American Slavery[/I] The Souths primarily agrarian and agricultural lifestyle contrasted with the growing northern industrial and urban lifestyle led to difference of opinion on culture, education, religion, role of government, tariffs, trade policies, internal improvements and many other differences. There were as many factories in the north, as there were factories workers in the south. From Americans agrarian roots the south had “little dynamic change, weather through immigration, the growth of new cities or new industrial manufacturing, was allowed to come in and stir up the pot.” [For a in depth look at the cultural, political and religious differences between agrarians and industrialist see here Southern Agrarians- did America Lose its Liberty When it Lost its Agrarian Roots? [URL='http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?513086-Southern-Agrarians-did-America-Lose-its-Liberty-When-it-Lost-its-Agrarian-Roots']Southern Agrarians- did America Lose its Liberty When it Lost its Agrarian Roots?[/URL] ] “[I]Ours is an agricultural people, and God grant that we may continue so. We never want to see it otherwise. It is the freest, happiest, most independent , and, with us, the most powerful condition on earth” -Montgomery Daily Confederation 1858[/I] “[I]1850's southern agrarians had mounted a counter attack against the gospel of industrialization” -James McPherson Battle cry of freedom[/I] “[I]Leisure orientated agrarian society is the antithesis to materialistic northern life” -Rapheal Semmes CSA navy commander[/I] As argued in the book “I'll Take my Stand the south and the agrarian tradition.” The main cause of the war was the fight over western territories coming into the union. All men are created equal, so slave owners had just as much rights to go into the territories [federal owned land] as northerns did. Before the civil war northern big business and industry needed industrial workers for factories for expansion, not farmers and planters. [I]If these states were allowed to decide on their own slave or free, than the south might maintain agrarian, free trade, policies.[/I] [I]“[I]The political and economic implication of agrarian expansion westward were alarming to certain mercantile interests in the east who red the loss of their political and economic control of an expanding America”[/I] -Merrill Jensen The New Nation Northeastern University Press[/I] “[I]The struggle in our territories between the free and slaveholding States, has not been a struggle for the emancipation of slaves. It has been a contest for power, between the two great sections of the Union...The Southern people, in claiming a right to settle in territories with their slaves, assert a right sanctioned by the Constitution. The Northern people, in attempting to preclude the Southern people, by the legislation of Congress from our territories, war against the Constitution. This is the declaration of the Supreme Court of the United States. If the Northern position has prevailed by the late Presidential election, as the Northern people maintain, it has overthrown the Constitution. For by this result, a party hostile both to the Constitution and the decisions of the Supreme Court, have been placed in control of the Government. This alone would justify a dissolution of the Union....Whether all the States composing the United States, should be slaveholding or non-slaveholding States, neither the Northern nor Southern States ought to have permitted to be a question in the politics of the United States. ” -Repot on the confederate committee of foreign affairs 1861[/I] If they were to all become free, than northern industrialist would dominate congress and high tariffs, protective tariffs and internal improvements would rise. Both the industrialist and the southern planters backed politicians in the fight over western territories. Northern politicians thought slavery “Stifled technological progress, inhibited industrialization, and thwarted urbanization” and would lead to the “Destruction of all industry” Something had to happen. [I]“Professor Holt quotes Ohio Congressman Joshua Giddings explaining: “To give the south the preponderance of political power would be itself to surrender our tariff, our internal improvements [a.k.a. corporate welfare], our distribution of proceeds of public lands . . .” -Micheal Holt The Fate of Their Country: Politicians, Slavery Extension, and the Coming of the Civil War quoted by Thomas j Dilorenzo[/I] “[I][I]Theodore Weld declared that the South had to be wiped out because it is “the foe to Northern industry—to our mines, our manufactures, our commerce.”[/I] -Clyde Wilson Professor of History at the University of South Carolina[/I] “[I]The game plan of northern industrialist, who were fighting not for black freedom, but for the freedom to exploit and devolve the American market...The only people who could say “free at last” after the civil war were northern industrialist and their allies” -Lerone Vennett JR Forced into Glory Abraham Lincolns White Dream[/I] The industrialist “hired” politicians to go anti-slavery and pro industrial expansion, fighting hard for western states to go anti slavery. Former slave trader James De Wolf became anti slavery when he started manufacturing companies. All of a sudden he wanted internal improvements and protective tariffs. The south wanted agrarian lifestyle, free trade, and states to decide on slavery. So as was said “The south had to be crushed out, it was in the way, it impeded the progress of the machine” if slavery could be abolished, than southern agrarian representation in congress would be reduced, if not [I]“[I]Then the old whig economic agenda of protectionist tariffs, corporate welfare, and central banking, which had become the republican agenda, would continue to fail in congress”[/I] -Thomas J Dilorenzo Lincoln Unmasked[/I] “The more the north became industrialized, the more the need arose for stronger national government to support its growth and finical interests.” The industrialist wanted higher tariffs as well to slow the flow of trade [I]on the Mississippi. [/I]They instead wanted trade to flow west through railroads supported by higher tariffs and internal improvements. Northern General Sherman said the civil war was a war between agriculturalist vs mechanics. Confederate General Jubal Early said Lee's army was defeated by “Steam power, railroads, mechanism, and all the resources of physical science” [I]The freeing of the slaves was “Only an accident in the violent clash of interests between the Industrial north and the Agricultural south” -African American Ralph Bunche[/I] “[I]The south saw the attack on the issue of slavery not so much as an attempt to end slavery in the united states as much as an attempt to end southern influence in the national government” [I]-Walter D Kennedy Myths of American slavery[/I][/I] In the book Clash of Extremes: The Economic Origins of the Civil War by Marc Egnal he said “Economics more than high moral concerns produced the civil war.” The heart of the war was economical differences growing between the protectionist, manufacturing northeast and the free trade agrarian south. In the book I'll take my stand a book on southern agrarian life, the authors argue if no other differences, the war would have still happened over industrial vs agrarian interests. The industrialist won. After the war the north profit went up 45% the south down 15%. [I]“[I]Military defeat moved the scepter of wealth from the agrarian south to the industrial north”[/I] -Robert William Fogel The Rise and Fall of American Slavery [/I] [I]“[I]If the North triumphs, it is not alone the destruction of our property; it is the prelude to anarchy,infidelity, the ultimate loss of free and responsible government on this continent. It is the triumph of commerce, the banks, factories. ”[/I] -Confederate Gen. Thomas Jonathan “Stonewall” Jackson[/I] “[I]Southern movement was a revolt of conservatism against the modernism of the north” a “Reaction to industry.” -E Merton Coulter The Confederate States of America Louisiana State university press[/I] [/QUOTE]
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