The trinity is foundational, not an option

New Birth · Feb 13, 2019

Nicolaus Mourer said:
Just FYI, true oneness denies the omnipresence of God. They believe that only the Father can exist at one time and not the Son, nor can the Son exist simultaneously with the Spirit. Which is also called classical modalism: the belief that God can only manifest as one member of the Godhead at a time. I reject that teaching outright and vehemently.

I believe that God is three in one. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are simultaneously present as one God, distinct as record-bearers, but unified. Not "person(s)" plural.

I reject Orthodox Trinitarianism (as the Catholics believe), which states that God is "three persons, one essence." The three persons is not mentioned in the Bible anywhere, and implies separate minds, separate consciousnesses, and separate spirits. At least, insomuch as Steven Anderson teaches, even though Anderson is a baptist.

What you have stated as "true oneness" is actually not oneness. It may be a form of modalism but it is not the traditional oneness position. Im not sure what outside sources define oneness theology (usually sources that differ which will never represent the views accurately). However you did infact describe the traditional oneness view of the Godhead. And that is there is one Spirit of God and that one God is the Father Son and Holy Spirit. And that Jesus is the Father manifest in the Flesh. Im sure there are some differences in beliefs concerning the Godhead but its basically the same as you earlier stated. As far as modalist. If you look at the history they were labelled "modalist" by those that opposed their view. Im not exactly sure we have an accurate understanding of their view on the Godhead since there are no original documents from those that were labelled "modalist" only what their opposers say they believed. From what I understand.

Talihood · Feb 13, 2019

ewq1938 said:
I do.

same

PristineGraceCA · Feb 13, 2019

Marieke589 said:
The basis of our belief is under attack by the religion of the Antichrist. We see it everywhere, oneness is growing. People do not believe in the trinity anymore, welcome to the end times.

Who here still believes in the true God, the father, the son and the holy ghost?

In this sermon you see a very upset pastor because the had to throw out oneness heretics out of his church again. People who had pretended to be real believers for years, even were on the payroll of the church were spreading this false doctrine of oneness.

Trinity 101 (Throwing Out Oneness Heretics) by Steven Anderson – IFBTube

Me!

Jonaitis · Feb 13, 2019

The one divine essence is the unity of all three members, but they are distinguished from each other by their distinctive properties and personal relations (ex. begetting, begotten, proceeding).

They are the same ontologically, but distinct economically with each other.

PaulCyp1 · Feb 13, 2019

Sadly, the doctrinal chaos of Protestantism continues to spread and multiply, this denomination rejecting this belief of original Christianity, that denomination rejecting that belief of original Christianity. How can they fail to see how far from the will of Jesus Christ this situation is?? His plainly stated will for His followers was and still is "That they all may be ONE, even as I and My heavenly Father are ONE. Unity is essential because truth cannot exist with out it. If two churches have conflicting beliefs, at least one of them has false beliefs. If 6,000 denominations and 20,000 so-called "non-denominational" churches each have their own beliefs that conflict with the beliefs of the others, untruth its rampant! Which is why Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised that ONE Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". Protestants must realize all of this, since they read the Bible. So why don't they abandon unauthorized conflicting manmade churches and return to Our Lord and Savior and the ONE Church He founded for them, which has remained ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in biblical understanding throughout the world for 2,000 years!

Call me Nic · Feb 13, 2019

Jonaitis said:
The one divine essence is the unity of all three members, but they are distinguished from each other by their distinctive properties and personal relations (ex. begetting, begotten, proceeding).

They are the same ontologically, but distinct economically with each other.

Same Creator, though, yes? Not three creators, but one Creator?

Dave L · Feb 13, 2019

New Birth said:
I denounce the doctrine that states there are three separate distinct co eternal spirits in the Godhead. I denounce the doctrine that states three individual separate wills and minds are in the Godhead. I affirm the doctrine that state there is One indivisible Spirit of God that one God we know as Father because he alone created all things, that One God was manifest in the flesh as the Man Christ Jesus, that One God indwells the believers, we know this as the infilling of the Holy Spirit. One Spirit of God, one mind one will.

Modalism? Sabellianism?

Not David · Feb 13, 2019

The real problem is you taking Anderson seriously.

New Birth · Feb 13, 2019

Dave L said:
Modalism? Sabellianism?

CHRISTIAN

Dave L · Feb 13, 2019

New Birth said:
CHRISTIAN

That's what any card carrying Modalist would say.

New Birth · Feb 13, 2019

PaulCyp1 said:
Sadly, the doctrinal chaos of Protestantism continues to spread and multiply, this denomination rejecting this belief of original Christianity, that denomination rejecting that belief of original Christianity. How can they fail to see how far from the will of Jesus Christ this situation is?? His plainly stated will for His followers was and still is "That they all may be ONE, even as I and My heavenly Father are ONE. Unity is essential because truth cannot exist with out it. If two churches have conflicting beliefs, at least one of them has false beliefs. If 6,000 denominations and 20,000 so-called "non-denominational" churches each have their own beliefs that conflict with the beliefs of the others, untruth its rampant! Which is why Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised that ONE Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". Protestants must realize all of this, since they read the Bible. So why don't they abandon unauthorized conflicting manmade churches and return to Our Lord and Savior and the ONE Church He founded for them, which has remained ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in biblical understanding throughout the world for 2,000 years!

New Birth · Feb 13, 2019

PaulCyp1 said:
Sadly, the doctrinal chaos of Protestantism continues to spread and multiply, this denomination rejecting this belief of original Christianity, that denomination rejecting that belief of original Christianity. How can they fail to see how far from the will of Jesus Christ this situation is?? His plainly stated will for His followers was and still is "That they all may be ONE, even as I and My heavenly Father are ONE. Unity is essential because truth cannot exist with out it. If two churches have conflicting beliefs, at least one of them has false beliefs. If 6,000 denominations and 20,000 so-called "non-denominational" churches each have their own beliefs that conflict with the beliefs of the others, untruth its rampant! Which is why Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised that ONE Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". Protestants must realize all of this, since they read the Bible. So why don't they abandon unauthorized conflicting manmade churches and return to Our Lord and Savior and the ONE Church He founded for them, which has remained ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in biblical understanding throughout the world for 2,000 years!

Yes and sadly the Catholic church believes it is that original Church. Yet its doctrines are not founded in the scriptures and they have no authority or power with God.

New Birth · Feb 13, 2019

Dave L said:
That's what any card carrying Modalist would say.

I wouldn't know. I dont think I know any modalist. Why dont you define it for me?

Dave L · Feb 13, 2019

New Birth said:
I wouldn't know. I dont think I know any modalist. Why dont you define it for me?

You reject the historic doctrine of the trinity so you must replace it with something considered heresy by Christendom in general. But you don't know what it is?

New Birth · Feb 13, 2019

Dave L said:
You reject the historic doctrine of the trinity so you must replace it with something considered heresy by Christendom in general. But you don't know what it is?

Do you believe God is three distinct Spirits?

nonaeroterraqueous · Feb 13, 2019

The Father and the Son are as separate from each other as I am from my Father, a finite difference, but they have infinity in common. Paradoxically, that makes them 100% the same, despite being very much different persons.

Jonaitis · Feb 13, 2019

Nicolaus Mourer said:
Same Creator, though, yes? Not three creators, but one Creator?

Yes, they are consubstantial. The work of creation was initiated and completed in the unity of essence of all three persons (from the Father, through the Son, by the Spirit).

Do you agree that the Son and the Spirit do not subsist from the Father?

Dave L · Feb 13, 2019

New Birth said:
Do you believe God is three distinct Spirits?

No, God is Spirit with three distinct persons. Without beginning or end.

New Birth · Feb 13, 2019

nonaeroterraqueous said:
The Father and the Son are as separate from each other as I am from my Father, a finite difference, but they have infinity in common. Paradoxically, that makes them 100% the same, despite being very much different persons.

If the Son is as different from the Father as you and your father are then you have two distinct spirits, minds, wills, and lives. and if they are both God then you have two Gods.

New Birth · Feb 13, 2019

Dave L said:
No, God is Spirit with three distinct persons. Without beginning or end.

how does my view differ from yours according to the post of me denouncing 3 individual minds and wills?

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