The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil

Achilles6129 · May 14, 2013

God warned man not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good/evil or else he would surely die. As a matter of fact, from Eve's statement we know that God actually told man not to even touch the tree of the knowledge of good/evil.

The tree of the knowledge of good/evil is responsible for human death, suffering, the fact that everything runs down (2nd law of thermodynamics), the fact that our bodies age, and the fact that we are evidently born with Adam/Eve's post-fall nature.

That's one dangerous tree.

Optimax · May 14, 2013

The problem is the tree's fault.

The problem is that Adam chose to believe what satan said over what God said.

The decision to disobey God was the "game changer"!

Purge187 · May 14, 2013

Correction, Opti: The problem is that Eve chose to believe what Satan said over what God said.

Achilles6129 · May 14, 2013

Optimax said:
The problem is the tree's fault.

The problem is that Adam chose to believe what satan said over what God said.

The decision to disobey God was the "game changer"!

Purge187 said:
Correction, Opti: The problem is that Eve chose to believe what Satan said over what God said.

Yep.[

But boy, that is sure one dangerous tree isn't it? I mean, it really destroyed everything, didn't it?

Habakk · May 14, 2013

Achilles6129 said:
God warned man not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good/evil or else he would surely die. As a matter of fact, from Eve's statement we know that God actually told man not to even touch the tree of the knowledge of good/evil.

The tree of the knowledge of good/evil is responsible for human death, suffering, the fact that everything runs down (2nd law of thermodynamics), the fact that our bodies age, and the fact that we are evidently born with Adam/Eve's post-fall nature.

That's one dangerous tree.

God commanded Adam not to eat of the tree, Eve added the "do not touch" bit. Also Satan subtly misquoted God's original command to Eve.

God originally said - And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. (Genesis 2: 16-17).

Satan subtlety misquoted to Eve - Now the serpent was more subtle than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, has God said, you shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (Genesis 3: 1).

Eve said correcting the emphasis but adding a bit. - And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die (Genesis 3: 2-3).

Also Eve used only Elohim as God’s name before the fall. Yahweh was not used until after the fall and after God gave a promise.

The second law of thermodynamics (Entropy) must scientifically always have been in effect both before and after the fall. The universe being an isolated and closed system. It’s a fundamental law of physics. The second law is an empirically validated postulate of thermodynamics and is understood using statistical quantum mechanics. Otherwise you have perpetual motion and that’s impossible in our physical system.

YeShallTread · May 14, 2013

Purge187 said:
Correction, Opti: The problem is that Eve chose to believe what Satan said over what God said.

God spoke directly to Adam about this, not Eve for she wasn't yet taken from him. Rather than laying all of this at the feet of Eve please read the verse carefully.....

Genesis 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

brinny · May 14, 2013

Achilles6129 said:
Yep.[

But boy, that is sure one dangerous tree isn't it? I mean, it really destroyed everything, didn't it?

Aren't you fergettin' sumthin'?

bling · May 14, 2013

Achilles6129 said:
God warned man not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good/evil or else he would surely die. As a matter of fact, from Eve's statement we know that God actually told man not to even touch the tree of the knowledge of good/evil.

The tree of the knowledge of good/evil is responsible for human death, suffering, the fact that everything runs down (2nd law of thermodynamics), the fact that our bodies age, and the fact that we are evidently born with Adam/Eve's post-fall nature.

That's one dangerous tree.

Would you prefer to be in a place where your eternal close relationship with god was dependent on you personal ability to obey God (before eating) or in a place where your eternal close relationship with God was dependent on your accepting His Love (forgiveness) which came after eating?

Yarddog · May 14, 2013

Achilles6129 said:
God warned man not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good/evil or else he would surely die. As a matter of fact, from Eve's statement we know that God actually told man not to even touch the tree of the knowledge of good/evil.

The tree of the knowledge of good/evil is responsible for human death, suffering, the fact that everything runs down (2nd law of thermodynamics), the fact that our bodies age, and the fact that we are evidently born with Adam/Eve's post-fall nature.

That's one dangerous tree.

The Tree of Knowledge is a biblical allegory pointing to the Mosaic Law.
Romans 3:20 because by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified in his sight; for through the law [cometh] the knowledge of sin.

The Law is holy but those under the Law who violate any of the is worthy of death.

2 Cor. 3: 6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 7 But if the ministration of death, written, [and] engraven on stones, came with glory...

Genesis is the first book of Moses. God gave Moses the knowledge to write this book, it wasn't handed down through men that came before. It is full of wonders pointing to Jesus Christ, the Tree of Life. We, children of the New Covenant are free to eat of the fruit of the Tree of Life, Jesus Christ, and live forever.

Achilles6129 · May 14, 2013

Habakk said:
God commanded Adam not to eat of the tree, Eve added the "do not touch" bit.

God can command more than once. When he gave Adam the command, Eve was not yet created. After Eve was created, God must have commanded her as well. And the "do not touch" part was a version of the separate times that God commanded Adam/Eve.

Habakk said:
Also Eve used only Elohim as Gods name before the fall. Yahweh was not used until after the fall and after God gave a promise.

Nonetheless, YHWH is used by Genesis before the fall.

Habakk said:
The second law of thermodynamics (Entropy) must scientifically always have been in effect both before and after the fall. The universe being an isolated and closed system. Its a fundamental law of physics. The second law is an empirically validated postulate of thermodynamics and is understood using statistical quantum mechanics. Otherwise you have perpetual motion and thats impossible in our physical system.

I'm talking about its application to things like aging and so forth. Adam/Eve would have lived forever if they had not eaten of the tree of knowledge of good/evil. The point is that the planet was made to last forever initially and now it will not last forever because of the tree of the knowledge of good/evil.

Remember that the world in its initial state was far different than it is now.

brinny said:
Aren't you fergettin' sumthin'?

Like what?

bling said:
Would you prefer to be in a place where your eternal close relationship with god was dependent on you personal ability to obey God (before eating) or in a place where your eternal close relationship with God was dependent on your accepting His Love (forgiveness) which came after eating?

I'd prefer to be in the garden of Eden, thanks.

brinny · May 14, 2013

Originally Posted by brinny
Aren't you fergettin' sumthin'?

Achilles6129 said:
Like what?

Satan.

Habakk · May 14, 2013

Achilles6129 said:
God can command more than once. When he gave Adam the command, Eve was not yet created. After Eve was created, God must have commanded her as well. And the "do not touch" part was a version of the separate times that God commanded Adam/Eve.

True, but scripture does not specifically say that and why should God change the commandment. It is also more likely that Eve was informed of the commandment through Adam. The commandment formed the first biblical covenant, the Adamic covenant, so it was essentially Adams responsibility. God later formed the Edenic covenant after the fall.
Scripture says sin entered by Adam and that Eve was deceived. Satan deceived Eve and consequently caused Adam to break the covenant. God always works by covenant.

All the trees were planted by God, it was not the tree it was Satan that was dangerous.

Achilles6129 said:
I'm talking about its application to things like aging and so forth. Adam/Eve would have lived forever if they had not eaten of the tree of knowledge of good/evil. The point is that the planet was made to last forever initially and now it will not last forever because of the tree of the knowledge of good/evil.

The second law of thermodynamics doesnt work like that; you cant simply turn it off and on. The is no reason to speculate that God changed the laws of physics and the nature of the universe at the fall. This physical world is temporary there will one day be a new heaven and a new earth, a spiritual heaven and earth.

fhansen · May 14, 2013

Achilles6129 said:
God warned man not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good/evil or else he would surely die. As a matter of fact, from Eve's statement we know that God actually told man not to even touch the tree of the knowledge of good/evil.

The tree of the knowledge of good/evil is responsible for human death, suffering, the fact that everything runs down (2nd law of thermodynamics), the fact that our bodies age, and the fact that we are evidently born with Adam/Eve's post-fall nature.

That's one dangerous tree.

Eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil was simply disobedience of God- because He said not to eat of it. Disobedience of God= death for man or angels because God is the author of their very natures-of who they are- and any action outside of those natures, any sin, IOW, is an offense against both Him, nature, and their very own selves as well, even though they presumed they were bettering themselves by this disobedience.

Our job now is to learn what Adam & Eve didn't yet know-that they weren't bettering themselves at all, that to disobey God is to separate oneself from the author of life and all that He would have for us- life and life abundantly. Man must acknowledge and trust His creator in an intimate relationship of love, in order to have the integrity he was meant to have. Jesus came to reconcile and restore this relationship which was shattered at the Fall, to restore faith in God, first of all, that should never have been spurned and lost to begin with.

The reason the tree was called The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil is because the result of disobedience of God is to already know the first evil: separation from His will, separation from Him, where man takes over the role of determining good or evil for himself, becoming his own god, with evil (moral evil, i.e. sin), as often as not the result. To put it another way, the first evil man experienced, or knew, was the very separation from God that his act of disobedience obtained for him, because God is the ultimate good and that goodness remains intact in creation to the extent that creation (us) remains aligned with His perfect will, under His control. The difference with man (and angels as well), is that God let that control be optional, i.e. He gave them free will. We continue to know good and evil everyday that we live in this world where man's will is allowed to reign for all practical purposes-for the time being at least.

bling · May 14, 2013

Achilles6129 said:
.I'd prefer to be in the garden of Eden, thanks.

What makes you think: you could, for eternity, do better than those God personally raised (programmed) to adulthood?
Do you think the Garden is better than heaven itself?
Do you see any problems with the Garden?
What do you see as mans objective while here on earth?

motherprayer · May 14, 2013

Curse McDonalds. They made people fat.
Curse video games. They make children violent.
Curse feminism. It makes men hate women.

Curse the serpent. He made Eve eat.
Curse the tree. It made man fall.

WHAT?!

No. How bout go to the root cause of all of it? PEOPLE make decisions that have CONSEQUENCES. Let's not place the blame on an inanimate object. Its not the socket's fault when a child, after being told not to, places something in it and gets shocked. It isn't the Twinkies fault that millions of people spend more money on Jenny Craig than they do on their families, and its not Jenny's fault either.

ITS NOT THE TREE'S FAULT THAT EVE ATE AND GAVE TO ADAM AND HE TOOK IT. ITS THEIRS.

/rant

Habakk · May 14, 2013

All old covenants including the Adamic covenanant were between man and God. They were therefore fragile and could be broken.

The new covenant was made between God and his Son. Jesus being the mediator and author with a covenant in his own blood. As long as we abide in Christ the covenant can’t be broken. We are in a much better position than Eden because now the corruptible seed will be raised incorruptible. In heaven there will never be another fall; there will never be another rebellion, we will be perfected like him. He will be our high priest forever.

daydreamergurl15 · May 14, 2013

That is one dangerous tree. You can imagine why God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden and protected the tree of life.

Genesis 3:22-24
22 Then the LORD God said, "Behold, the man has become like one of Us in knowing good and evil. Now, lest he reach out his hand and take also of the tree of life and eat, and live forever-"
23 therefore the LORD God sent him out from the garden of Eden to work the ground from which he was taken.
24 He drove out the man, and at the east of the garden of Eden he placed the cherubim and a flaming sword that turned every way to guard the way to the tree of life.

You know, it's funny, I always thought Adam and Eve got kicked out of the garden because they were disobedient, it seems that they got kicked out so they wouldn't touch the tree of life. But I think it was because of disobedience because of their punishment in the early part of Chapter 3. Oh well, thank God for Christ's death and the promise of eternal life.

Gelb1472 · May 14, 2013

How do you define the phrase, "the knowledge of good and evil"? If I tell my children, do not touch the hot stove, and I ask them, "do you understand?" then if they say yes they understand, I believe that they have the knowledge of good and evil. How then can Adam and Eve be said to have the knowledge of good and evil (understanding God's prohibition) prior to eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Habakk · May 15, 2013

Gelb1472 said:
How do you define the phrase, "the knowledge of good and evil"? If I tell my children, do not touch the hot stove, and I ask them, "do you understand?" then if they say yes they understand, I believe that they have the knowledge of good and evil. How then can Adam and Eve be said to have the knowledge of good and evil (understanding God's prohibition) prior to eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Your children understand and trust your words to be true. If they did touch the stove they would have knowledge of the potential terrible consequences and pain of their disobedience.

They became as gods. In other words instead of continuing to be in close fellowship with God and trust him as the source of all knowledge and wisdom, they became their own judges of right and wrong. That caused them to immediately fall from God’s holy standard and become self motivated.

Eve was deceived she saw that the fruit was good for food. Satan tempted, Eve was deceived by the eye it was not the touching it was the eating that caused her downfall. Tempted, looking with the eyes, touching and then eating in deliberate defiance to God’s command. The apparent good of the tree caused her downfall and that of Adam. After that they were spiritually dead, condemned by their own conscience, knowing fully the consequence of evil in their physical lives.

x141 · May 15, 2013

Achilles6129 said:
God warned man not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good/evil or else he would surely die. As a matter of fact, from Eve's statement we know that God actually told man not to even touch the tree of the knowledge of good/evil.

The tree of the knowledge of good/evil is responsible for human death, suffering, the fact that everything runs down (2nd law of thermodynamics), the fact that our bodies age, and the fact that we are evidently born with Adam/Eve's post-fall nature.

That's one dangerous tree.

To think God planted it knowing they would eat of it, and that through this tree the earth became filled with violence.

Notice that the tree that was in the midst of the garden was the tree of life, but when the woman was taken out of the man, in the woman's perception, the forbidden tree becomes the tree that is in the midst of the garden.

The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil

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