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~RENEE~

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I'll go you one further. The revival was never a revival and the only thing that was happening was a bunch of people reacting to the emperors new clothes.
That's honestly all I saw in it.
I disagree A friend of mine that went to the revival. At the time was a meth, crack, coke and esctacy dealer and user. Then went to brownsville's bible school. Is now a missionary in canada. On fire for God. There was alot more going on in those meetings than what people know.

The problem with it was that. Man started looking to the manifestations instead of God. Keep your focus on God.
 
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Citizen of the Kingdom

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I was not a part of the movement persee but have seen the repercussions of more resent times where leaders of the church were (imo) immitating just to belong and in the endevor compromised their own standing.
 
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Mattacious

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I've had a few PM's and posts directly toward me and I would just like to clarify that I am not Paul Gowdy. My pastor found this article and so I posted it for everyone to make their own mind up. This article has confirmed allot of what God has been revealing to me in recent times. That's all I personally have to say.

http://www.discernment-ministries.org/TheTorontoDeception.htm
 
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Questioning Christian

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Matt

This is not a put-down on their intelligence, but you clearly wrote at the bottom that you were posting something FROM Paul Gowdy. People read over things too quickly, and if they'd take more time to pay attention to it, there wouldn't be that confusion for them.

 
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robbymac

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The problem, QC, is that your quote of Stipe comes from the introduction to Hank "The Bible Answer Man" Hannegraaf's "Counterfeit Revival" book, and while Hank was spreading as many lies and exaggerations about the Toronto Blessing as he possibly could, the Stipe references were to the Kansas City Prophets era of the Vineyard. The two are not the same thing.

Second, Stipe was specifically attacking the Vineyard movement -- as was Hannegraaf -- so please don't act surprised when people respond by mentioning the Vineyard.

Third, James Beverley, one of my professors at Tyndale Seminary (also in Toronto) wrote a book entitled Holy Laughter and the Toronto Blessing which showed some of the good fruit and also gave some hefty warnings about excesses in the Blessing -- and Dr. Beverley also sharply rebuked Tom Stipe for giving a very one-sided and not-quite-historically-accurate story of Stipe's own involvement and teachings while in the Vineyard.

Finally, it just isn't even close to accurate to equate the Vineyard movement as being synonymous with the Toronto Blessing or the Kansas City Prophets. While both "streams" may have intersected with the Vineyard for a season, as Wimber "trimmed the bush", they were not embraced long-term.
 
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FortunateSon

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LOL! "Herescope"!!!

I'm not wasting my time reading that bull...

I agree, I couldn't either. But I can say that most supposed Christians are nothing but pagans worshipping themselves and their own intellect.

Sorry, but in effect, they are their own "gods".
 
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JTM3

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I agree, I couldn't either. But I can say that most supposed Christians are nothing but pagans worshipping themselves and their own intellect.

Sorry, but in effect, they are their own "gods".

Somewhat confused, was that directed at me or were you talking about the heresy hunters?
 
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I understand the points that are made in the OP but I do think that there is a real danger of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Yes, there are examples of churches who went into unbiblical extremes of behaviour in the days of the Toronto Blessing, just as there always have been churches who fell into traps (including plenty of churches who fell into the opposite unbiblical extreme of giving little or no room for the active work of the Holy Spirit).

What the situation illustrates is the need for the word and the spirit to operate together. Teaching on sound theology has to underpin every move of the Holy Spirit. Churches that have actively emphaised both tend to be the ones that avoid traps and produce lasting fruit.
 
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JTM3

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FortunateSon

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Personally, I think that if we have a God that we always understand, then we have a God about our own size.

God will never violate His own revealed Word. Why? Because His Word is a revealed part of His very nature. He cannot violate Himself. However, He cannot be contained by that very same Word either. He's bigger than His bible.
 
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FoundInGrace

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Well, personally reading the letter the op posted was like a salve to my soul.

The Toronto blessing stuff came to my church through a visiting speaker from the States and I was deceived for many years before God in His mercy freed me. God is good. Before I left that church I had spiritual experiences that weren't of God and ones that started out of God then literally turned on me. I am glad it is over. Whether it was all the Toronto blessing 'anointing' that was responsible or problems already in the church that were exacerbated by the speaker who brought all that with him I'm not sure but there was damage that was done to people, well meaning people and from what I've seen and know the church is still suffering.

Praise God He has healed me a lot, there is nothing that is impossible with God. And I acknowledge I was at fault as well, I did not study scripture back then, didn't know how important it was or realise I had to discern.

May God bless Paul Gowdy for that letter, there's a lot of us who never thought we'd see a leader in the movement able to see and acknowledge the wrong in it or apologise for the hurt done, it takes a great deal of humility to write such a letter and God will bless him for doing that I believe. I pray God will bless him.

IMO a truely beautiful letter from a repentant heart that will mean healing for many people.
 
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FireQuest

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Good perspective!
 
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robbymac

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I've surfed around a few Google searches, but the only websites that seem to carry this letter are the extreme anti-charismatic heresy-hunter sites.

Does anyone know if there is a reputable source that would confirm that this really is Paul Gowdy, that he really was a Toronto Airport Vineyard pastor, and that he really wrote this?

All that aside, his points on the need for discernment were excellent, and I appreciated his firmness on testing everything by the Word of God.

I would just prefer to know that this isn't written by some heresy-hunter type posing as a former Vineyard pastor before I link to it from my own website. (The Bible Answer Man used to cut-and-paste audio clips to make Toronto leaders appear to "say" things that they never actually said, so I'm just trying to be careful here.)
 
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lismore

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I've surfed around a few Google searches, but the only websites that seem to carry this letter are the extreme anti-charismatic heresy-hunter sites.

The parable of the wise and foolish virgins (matthew 25)

 
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