• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

The Time Gap between Dan.9:26 and 27

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
This was a temporary token measure to placate Jewish believers in v.20 who had not yet fully committed to Paul's New Covenant teachings in v.21. There is no indication that it was considered efficacious, nor was there any subsequent repetition of such a measure.

Under the New Covenant, which is the only Covenant now in full force and effect, there will be no temple built by a God who "dwelleth not in temples made with hands" (Acts 7:48, 17:24).
 
Upvote 0

Copperhead

Newbie
Site Supporter
Feb 22, 2013
1,434
442
✟230,825.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Under the New Covenant, which is the only Covenant now in full force and effect, there will be no temple built by a God who "dwelleth not in temples made with hands" (Acts 7:48, 17:24).

Ok. Then God must have been just pulling our leg and put Ezekiel (and other prophets) up to fooling us. You might want to actually read Ezekiel 40-44. The specifics are such that it hardly passes as just allegory or illusion.
 
Upvote 0

jgr

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Feb 25, 2008
9,692
5,020
✟843,047.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Ok. Then God must have been just pulling our leg and put Ezekiel (and other prophets) up to fooling us. You might want to actually read Ezekiel 40-44. The specifics are such that it hardly passes as just allegory or illusion.
Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
 
Upvote 0

Copperhead

Newbie
Site Supporter
Feb 22, 2013
1,434
442
✟230,825.00
Country
United States
Faith
Protestant
Marital Status
Married
Hebrews 8:13
In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

You do realize, that the Bereans were commended by Paul for searching the scriptures daily to see if what Paul taught them was true and that they only had the OT scriptures since the NT scriptures hadn't been written yet, right?

And that Yeshua said (Matthew 5:18) that not one jot or tittle (the fine details) of the law will pass away until heaven and earth pass away and all be fulfilled. Take a look out your window. Has heaven and earth passed away?

And the OT references to the kingdom where the Messiah will reign also includes ample references to a temple being there and sacrifices and offerings being made. Even nations that do not come to celebrate the Moed, like Yom Teruah, will have rain withheld from their land.
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
And that Yeshua said (Matthew 5:18) that not one jot or tittle (the fine details) of the law will pass away until heaven and earth pass away and all be fulfilled. Take a look out your window. Has heaven and earth passed away?

Christ Came to Fulfill the Law (Subtitle from eSword)

Mat 5:17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 
Mat 5:18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
(Heaven and earth would not pass away "till" it was fulfilled at Calvary.) 


Mat 5:19  Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 
Mat 5:20  For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven. 



Gal 3:16  Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. 
Gal 3:17  And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(Above Paul reveals that the Sinai Covenant came 430 years "after" the promise made to Abraham.)

Gal 3:18  For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 
Gal 3:19  Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. 
(Here Paul reveals the temporary nature of the Sinai Covenant. It was put in place "till" the "seed" (Christ) could come to whom the promise was made.)




Gal 4:24  Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 
(Paul compares the Sinai covenant to "bondage".)


Gal 4:25  For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 
(Again, Paul compares Sinai to bondage.)

Gal 4:26  But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 
(This Jerusalem is found in Hebrews 11:16.)


Gal 4:27  For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 
Gal 4:28  Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 
Gal 4:29  But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 
Gal 4:30  Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 
(Paul compelled the Galatians believers to "cast out" the Sinai covenant.)

Gal 4:31  So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free. 




This is confirmed by Hebrews 12:18-24.
We are not come to the mountain that burns with fire, but instead to the New Covenant of Mount Zion and heavenly Jerusalem.



The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant began in Acts chapter 15.
Peter said the Law of Moses was a "yoke" they had not been able to bear.


Act 15:10  Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 

Peter could not have been talking about circumcision, because it was something they did bear.

The Judaisers could not let go of the Old Covenant, as Paul instructed in Galatians chapter 4.

Sadly, for most of the history of the Church the Judaisers have won the day.



There are two different sets of commandments in the verse below.

Joh 15:10  If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. 

.
 
Last edited:
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
101
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟355,074.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single


You wrote the following: "In the New Covenant the Sabbath is not a day of the week.
It is the person of Jesus Christ, as revealed by Paul in Colossians 2:16-17."

FYI, the Sabbath by the Mosaic Law. is the seventh day of every week, in addition to that of all their seven Holy Convocations together with a few they have added since.



Quasar92
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

Col 2:16  Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 
Col 2:17  Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. 



The Sinai Covenant is now "obsolete".

Heb 8:13  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
 


We are not come to Mount Sinai, but instead to the New Covenant of heavenly Jerusalem.


Heb 12:18  For ye are not come unto the mount that might be touched, and that burned with fire, nor unto blackness, and darkness, and tempest, 
Heb 12:19  And the sound of a trumpet, and the voice of words; which voice they that heard intreated that the word should not be spoken to them any more: 
Heb 12:20  (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart: 
Heb 12:21  And so terrible was the sight, that Moses said, I exceedingly fear and quake 
Heb 12:22  But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, 
Heb 12:23  To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, 
Heb 12:24  And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 



The Old Covenant is finished.
Christ is our Sabbath Rest every day of the week.

 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,972
3,559
Non-dispensationalist
✟413,254.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
BAB2, the issue is not that the new covenant made most parts of the mt. Sinai covenant a thing of the past, but what is the bible prophecy implication that the Jews will be clinging to the Mt Sinai covenant when the great tribulation be begins.

Here is my evidence. In Matthew 24, when the Jews are told to flee Jerusalem when they see the Abomination of Desolation standing in a holy place - they are told,

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

Even if a person were to think 70 AD, and not end times, 70 AD was well after the new covenant. So that verse indicates that Jews will still be observing the sabbath.... irrespective of the arguments you are making regarding the new covenant.

We are trying to figure out bible prophecy, not fighting over that the new covenant obsoleted the old covenant.
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

Based on Luke 21:20-24, Matthew 24:20 is a warning about 70 AD.

The Christians who lived during 70 AD would still have to contend with the city gates being locked on the Sabbath day.

Understanding that Daniel 9:27 is about the New Covenant is crucial to helping millions of nonbelievers around the world to understand the truth of God's Word.
Why?
Because it connects Jeremiah 31:31-34 to the timeline of the arrival of the New Covenant Messiah.
The covenant with many in Daniel 9:27 is the same covenant with many in Matthew 26:28. As a matter of fact, the scriptural reference beside of Daniel 9:27 in my NKJV Bible is Matthew 26:28.


I am shocked by the number of Christians on this forum who deny that Christ fulfilled Daniel 9:24, in order to make their doctrine work.
They must have cut Acts 10:38 and Hebrews 10:16-18 out of their Bibles.


.
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,972
3,559
Non-dispensationalist
✟413,254.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Based on Luke 21:20-24, Matthew 24:20 is a warning about 70 AD.

The Christians who lived during 70 AD would still have to contend with the city gates being locked on the Sabbath day.
So you are admitting that the Jews were observing the Sabbath in 70 AD - even though the new covenant had long been established? Your answer has to be "yes".

Therefore, 2000 years later, the Jews still observing the Sabbath, when in the futurist view, the
Abomination of Desolation takes place - no change from your 70 AD view - as far as Jews observing the Sabbath..

Your argument that the new covenant makes the old covenant obsolete didn't hold then (in the 70AD view) and it doesn't hold now. The Jews are observing the Sabbath - in the futurist view and in your 70AD view.

So there is no sense in you continuing with an argument that doesn't even make sense in your own 70 AD view.. You admit the Jews are observing the Sabbath, although the new covenant had been long established when Matthew 24:15 takes place.

You are making an argument that even by your own interpretation has no relevancy to the fulfillment of bible prophecy regarding Matthew 24. If you want to do a sermon on the new covenant then that is appropriate for another forum - but not here. Everyone here are Christians and believe in the new covenant. It is not just Christians who hold the 70AD view.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,972
3,559
Non-dispensationalist
✟413,254.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
The covenant with many in Daniel 9:27 is the same covenant with many in Matthew 26:28.
wrong, wrong, wrong...... you admitted the Jews - Daniel's people - and Jerusalem were holding to the Mt. Sinai covenant when 70 AD took place. Even in your 70 AD view, your interpretation that the covenant with many as being the new covenant doesn't hold.

Guess what? The Jews (Judaism) who I have had many discussions with on Daniel 9:27 - believe the same as you do, that Daniel 9:27 was fulfilled in 70AD. But they hold that the covenant with many - is the Mt. Sinai covenant.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

Based on your logic above, the New Covenant can never come into effect until nobody attempts to keep the Sinai covenant. This interpretation most certainly does not hold.

All of Daniel's people did not hold onto the Sinai covenant.
On the day of Pentecost about 3,000 Israelites accepted the New Covenant foretold in Jeremiah 31:31-34.
Read Acts chapter 2 where Peter addresses the crowd as "all the house of Israel".



Hebrews 8:6-13 and Hebrews 12:18-24 reveal that the New Covenant was in effect during the first century.

Based on Acts 10:38 and Hebrews 10:16-18, nobody can honestly deny that Christ fulfilled the New Covenant and Daniel 9:24 during the first century.

You are also avoiding part of Jeremiah chapter 31.

Jer 31:32  Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 

Based on the verse above, God considered the Sinai Covenant broken, before Gabriel appeared to Daniel.

Since this same interpretation is found in the notes of the 1599 Geneva Bible, which is the Bible the Pilgrims brought to America, it is not "my interpretation".

This interpretation was published over 350 years before I was born.

.
 
Upvote 0

Quasar92

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Aug 7, 2016
3,762
1,943
101
Lexington, KY 40517
Visit site
✟355,074.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single


There is nothing you have written in the above that alters a single thing about the contents of post #46 refuting you.


Quasar92
 
Upvote 0

Douggg

anytime rapture, non-dispensationalist, futurist
May 28, 2009
29,972
3,559
Non-dispensationalist
✟413,254.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Private
Based on your logic above, the New Covenant can never come into effect until nobody attempts to keep the Sinai covenant. This interpretation most certainly does not hold.
Why are you saying to Christians here that the new covenant is the one in Jesus? Everyone here believes that.

Your interpretation of 70AD is based on the Jews and Jerusalem holding to the Mt. Sinai covenant, well after the new covenant was established. Futurists believe the same, but in the end times.
 
Upvote 0

BABerean2

Newbie
Site Supporter
May 21, 2014
20,614
7,484
North Carolina
✟916,165.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Why are you saying to Christians here that the new covenant is the one in Jesus? Everyone here believes that.

I sat in Church for many years and never heard a sermon or Sunday-school lesson on the New Covenant.
Therefore, I would think that many others have had the same problem.


I have never seen the following presented on Christian television.


The battle between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant began in Acts chapter 15 and continues to this day.
During most of that time the Judaisers have won the day.


The books of Galatians and Hebrews were written to address this problem.

If Futurists believe Jeremiah 31:31-34 is not now in effect, they have cut Hebrews 8:6-13 out of their Bibles.

.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0