The Theology & Messages In Our Music

[mcswan]

deleted by poster

 

[Auburn88]

I don't know why you deleted your OP, but I hope you'll reconsider. This is a topic we discuss a lot at our church and I find it very interesting and important.

Historically, the hymns of the Church have been a very important way to teach, codify, and preserve doctrinal truths.

Like I said, I hope you'll reconsider because I'd like to talk to you about this.

 

[mcswan]

I don't know why you deleted your OP, but I hope you'll reconsider. This is a topic we discuss a lot at our church and I find it very interesting and important.

Historically, the hymns of the Church have been a very important way to teach, codify, and preserve doctrinal truths.

Like I said, I hope you'll reconsider because I'd like to talk to you about this.

I'm glad you liked the post. I deleted all my earlier messages as I needed to just take abreak from this crowd. It's not good for my spiritual health.

Perhaps I'll repost.

I'd be glad if you would start a trhead though.

 

[Mr Dave]

I'm sorry I missed the earlier posts. Having missed them I'm not sure what angle you were taking with the thread, but I've gone onto a Journal site and ran a search for "theology in hymns."
The first article talks a lot about various aspects of theology; 'Love divine' being one of the greatest hymns about sanctification etc...

As this is in the Christian History forum though, this quote may be of interest

"The most decisive view of early American hymn rhetoric comes from the data on hymn publication itself, which shows a powerful and persistent American embrace of eighteenth century English evangelical hymns, and especially those of Isaac Watts. Watts' theology and literary theory of praise was the fountainhead of evangelical hymnody and it therefore holds much promise for understanding how sacred lyrics shaped the popular religious imagination in early America."

Stephen Marini, 'Hymnody as History', Church History, Cambridge University Press & American Society of Church History, 71.2 2002

 

[mcswan]

I'm sorry I missed the earlier posts. Having missed them I'm not sure what angle you were taking with the thread, but I've gone onto a Journal site and ran a search for "theology in hymns."
The first article talks a lot about various aspects of theology; 'Love divine' being one of the greatest hymns about sanctification etc...

As this is in the Christian History forum though, this quote may be of interest

"The most decisive view of early American hymn rhetoric comes from the data on hymn publication itself, which shows a powerful and persistent American embrace of eighteenth century English evangelical hymns, and especially those of Isaac Watts. Watts' theology and literary theory of praise was the fountainhead of evangelical hymnody and it therefore holds much promise for understanding how sacred lyrics shaped the popular religious imagination in early America."

Stephen Marini, 'Hymnody as History', Church History, Cambridge University Press & American Society of Church History, 71.2 2002

I was actually raising up for others to comment on the black spiritual "Steal Away to Jesus", a favorite of our gospel group, of which I'm a member. There is Christian theology in the lyrics, but also a communication for slaves in the south. When a storm was coming, and the slaves where working in the fields, those lyrics sung aloud while working were also a call to those daring to risk it that tonight during the storm there will be slaves escaping to the north, an exciting and dangerous act.

"Steal away, steal away, steal away to Jesus!


"Steal away, steal away home,
I ain’t got long to stay here"

"My Lord, He calls me,
He calls me by the thunder;
The trumpet sounds within my soul,
I ain’t got long to stay here."

"Green trees are bending,
Poor sinners stand a-trembling;
The trumpet sounds within my soul,
I ain’t got long to stay here."

"My Lord, He calls me,
He calls me by the lightning;
The trumpet sounds within my soul,
I ain’t got long to stay here."

YouTube - Steal Away

 

[Mr Dave]

I was actually raising up for others to comment on the black spiritual "Steal Away to Jesus", a favorite of our gospel group, of which I'm a member. There is Christian theology in the lyrics, but also a communication for slaves in the south. When a storm was coming, and the slaves where working in the fields, those lyrics sung aloud while working were also a call to those daring to risk it that tonight during the storm there will be slaves escaping to the north, an exciting and dangerous act.

"Steal away, steal away, steal away to Jesus!


"Steal away, steal away home,
I ain’t got long to stay here"

"My Lord, He calls me,
He calls me by the thunder;
The trumpet sounds within my soul,
I ain’t got long to stay here."

"Green trees are bending,
Poor sinners stand a-trembling;
The trumpet sounds within my soul,
I ain’t got long to stay here."

"My Lord, He calls me,
He calls me by the lightning;
The trumpet sounds within my soul,
I ain’t got long to stay here."

Wow, what a great hymn, with such depth and meaning (well you know that, that's what the thread's about).
There's a fair amount of imagery in there, OT and Rev. especially. I like the emphasis on the Lord calling each of them, and I guess that gave them much hope.

 

[tz620q]

I was actually raising up for others to comment on the black spiritual "Steal Away to Jesus", a favorite of our gospel group, of which I'm a member. There is Christian theology in the lyrics, but also a communication for slaves in the south. When a storm was coming, and the slaves where working in the fields, those lyrics sung aloud while working were also a call to those daring to risk it that tonight during the storm there will be slaves escaping to the north, an exciting and dangerous act.

"Steal away, steal away, steal away to Jesus!


"Steal away, steal away home,
I ain’t got long to stay here"

"My Lord, He calls me,
He calls me by the thunder;
The trumpet sounds within my soul,
I ain’t got long to stay here."

"Green trees are bending,
Poor sinners stand a-trembling;
The trumpet sounds within my soul,
I ain’t got long to stay here."

"My Lord, He calls me,
He calls me by the lightning;
The trumpet sounds within my soul,
I ain’t got long to stay here."

I sing in a Catholic choir and this is one of our favorites. We sang it for a funeral once and it was eerily transcendent.

 

[mcswan]

I sing in a Catholic choir and this is one of our favorites. We sang it for a funeral once and it was eerily transcendent.

It can be powerfully emotional, can't it?

 

[mcswan]

Wow, what a great hymn, with such depth and meaning (well you know that, that's what the thread's about).
There's a fair amount of imagery in there, OT and Rev. especially. I like the emphasis on the Lord calling each of them, and I guess that gave them much hope.

Thanks for your comments.

I'm going to put up another hymn for us to comment on, The Battle Hymn of The Republic. Then I promise that is the last one I'll post on American slavery and Civil War. Please contemplate the metaphors of the 'Lord trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored' (the unimaginable slaughter of the war) and His 'terrible swift sword' (the Union army.)

Then the last verse contains a wonderful call to Christian service: 'With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me; as He died to make men holy, let us die to make men free', words which we usually sing as 'let us live to make men free.'

This is another piece that can bring me to tears.

Mine eyes have seen the glory
Of the coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage
Where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning
Of His terrible swift sword;
His truth is marching on.

Chorus
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

I have seen Him in the watchfires
Of a hundred circling camps
They have builded Him an altar
In the evening dews and damps;
I can read His righteous sentence
By the dim and flaring lamps;
His day is marching on.

Chorus
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

I have read a fiery gospel writ
In burnished rows of steel:
"As ye deal with My contemners,
So with you My grace shall deal":
Let the Hero born of woman
Crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.

Chorus
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet
That shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men
Before His judgement seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him;
Be jubilant, my feet;
Our God is marching on.

Chorus
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies
Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom
That transfigures you and me;
As He died to make men holy,
Let us die to make men free;
While God is marching on.

Chorus
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
His truth is marching on.



President Abraham Lincoln, speaking in 1865 on the occasion of his second inauguration, and referencing the terrible price America was paying for it's sin of slavery, included these poignant words:

The Almighty has his own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!" If we shall suppose that American Slavery is one of those offences which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South, this terrible war, as the woe due to those by whom the offence came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a Living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope--fervently do we pray--that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue, until all the wealth piled by the bond-man's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash, shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord, are true and righteous altogether"

 

[Mr Dave]

I wasn't aware there were so many verse, the British methodist Hymnal only has verses 1,4&5. Each of choruses finishes differently too, "His truth is marching on", "Our God is marching on", and "While God is marching on." Thought I'd just mention that as a point of interest, doesn't really aid discussion.

I know it's relating to the US Civil War, but where the hymn and you say "Lord trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored' (the unimaginable slaughter of the war)" makes me think of the First World war trenches, particularly Somme or Passchendaele, where so much trampling had happened that boards had to be laid down so as not to sink in the mire (the trampling out the vintage grape being like the relentless drudgery of soldiers marching over the boggy fields of Northern France/Belgium, but also the tremendous bloodshed, with both sides claiming that God was with them) (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Chateau_Wood_Ypres_1917.jpg)

You're right though, the last verse is incredible, and what a call! As with the last verse of 'Steal Away' there is an inordinate amount of hope there, that there will be an end to the horrors and that one day, those singing the hymn may be able to share in the closeness of Christ in the peace and calm of the original disciples and the transfiguration they experienced.

"let us die to make men free" - a phrase so often said with regards to the sacrifice of those who died in the Second World War. Also the idea of doing something for someone else so that someone else won't have to still comes through (but not in quite the same way) with the Chaplaincy of the RAF, whose motto is "To serve, not to be served." (Sorry for dragging it away from the Civil war).

Man hath no greater love than this, to lay down his life for his friends.