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faroukfarouk

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Acts shows that the Gospel scope has moved to the Gentiles at the 'uttermost parts of the earth'.
 
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ralliann

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The line of Caleb is listed in the Chronicle genealogies with the tribe of Judah by a process known as grafting in,
the same terminology Paul uses in Romans 11 to describe the gentile relationship to natural Israel.
Where is this process of grafting found in the Chronicles? That would be an interesting read.
 
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Minister Monardo

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Where is this process of grafting found in the Chronicles? That would be an interesting read.
It is described in the rabbinic commentary for Numbers published by the Jewish Publication Society, Rabbi Jacob Milgrom. Caleb is identified in the scriptures as a Kenizite. Because of his faithful witness with Joshua after the scouting expedition into the land, Moses promised him an inheritance, which was fulfilled by Joshua. In the Chronicles, he is listed as a part of the tribe of Judah, because his land was among them. He married a Jewish woman named Ephrathah, and they are the ancestors of David, specifically through Boaz and Ruth.
Caleb is grafted in as a son of Hezron in 1 Chronicles, beginning at verse 18. The timelines are incongruous with the time of Caleb.
 
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ralliann

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It is described in the rabbinic commentary for Numbers published by the Jewish Publication Society, Rabbi Jacob Milgrom.
So it is not found in the scripture. And I am assuming it is not found even in the Talmudic literature? Rather a more recent Rabbinic commentary.
Well all I see in 1 chronicles is Chelubai the son of Hezron. Chelubai or Caleb.
9 The sons also of Hezron, that were born unto him; Jerahmeel, and Ram, and Chelubai. {Ram: Gr. Aram } {Chelubai: or, Caleb }
This is the Son of tamar and Judah? the son of Hezron? The Caleb a kenizzite was long before this Caleb. Something is confused here or maybe I missed something?
4 And Tamar his daughter in law bare him Pharez and Zerah. All the sons of Judah were five.
5 The sons of Pharez; Hezron, and Hamul.
9 The sons also of Hezron, that were born unto him; Jerahmeel, and Ram, and Chelubai. {Ram: Gr. Aram } {Chelubai: or, Caleb }
Besides any Gentile deciding to sojourn among the Israelites and marry a jewess and circumcizes his sons (I am sure himself as well) becomes listed among the tribe they are accepted into
 
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Minister Monardo

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The discrepancies and diverging opinions on Caleb are vast. Just Google Caleb Bible and see the list. Even if Caleb as a Gentile is dismissed, there is the matter of David, son of Jesse, son of Obed, son of Boaz and his Moabite wife Ruth. The House of David were outsiders, He ruled from Hebron for 7 years before the elders of Israel came to him and acknowledged him. There is one fact that none of the literature that I have surveyed brings up, so I will raise it here:
Zechariah 12:7. The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
Interesting prophecy.
Messiah establishes the throne of David and fulfills God's covenant promises to him. The facts bear out, because the apostolic message from Paul and confirmed by Peter is that the promises of God are for the Jew first, and also the Gentile. This has been foreshadowed since the Exodus, for Moses did not just lead out the children of Israel, but also a 'mixed multitude' that followed with them. A significant amount of evidence points to the fact that Caleb was one of them.
 
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ralliann

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The discrepancies and diverging opinions on Caleb are vast. Just Google Caleb Bible and see the list.
I am simply going by what the text says. Caleb in 1 chronicles is the son of Hezron.
Even if Caleb as a Gentile is dismissed, there is the matter of David, son of Jesse, son of Obed, son of Boaz and his Moabite wife Ruth.
Because she had no children when her husband died she is not obligated as a Jewess. To marry into her husbands kinsman. She decides to do that by her faith. So Ruth as a moabitess is not a conundrum either. This is about circumcision period. Any Gentile can enter into tribal inheritance through marriage and child bearing, because of circumcision of their children or selves.
Not a Jewess woman here.
Moses wife.
Ex 4:25 Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me. {sharp … : or, knife } {cast … : Heb. made it touch }
Ex 4:26 So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

I am simply going by what the text says in the genalogy
 
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Minister Monardo

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This is good. I wasn't trying to create a conundrum with Ruth. On the contrary, I was trying to show that Gentiles have been in the mix all along. You adding Zipporah adds to that point. The reason for the focus on David's lineage of course is in regard to Messiah. The prophecy wasn't to Bethlehem Zipporah, but to Bethlehem Ephrathah. A clearly Jewish-Gentile house. The covenant with David was for us all. The Gospel includes the Gentiles. I was showing that this was in the narrative all along.
 
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ralliann

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The only issue I have here is your focus. There is no Jewish Gentile house IMO. The children born of a Gentile woman are not Jewish unless she is married to a Jew, . She remains their mother but they continue as sons of their fathers tribe and "house". The same with a Gentile male, he remains Gentile until he becomes circumcised, he marries into a tribe of the Jewess or her fathers house. No Gentile houses mixed in there.
Consider this...
Machir, No sons for heirs, so it goes to the daughters...

Numbers 36:1 And the chief fathers of the families of the children of Gilead, the son of Machir, the son of Manasseh, of the families of the sons of Joseph, came near, and spake before Moses, and before the princes, the chief fathers of the children of Israel:
2 And they said, The LORD commanded my lord to give the land for an inheritance by lot to the children of Israel: and my lord was commanded by the LORD to give the inheritance of Zelophehad our brother unto his daughters.
3 And if they be married to any of the sons of the other tribes of the children of Israel, then shall their inheritance be taken from the inheritance of our fathers, and shall be put to the inheritance of the tribe whereunto they are received: so shall it be taken from the lot of our inheritance.
4 And when the jubile of the children of Israel shall be, then shall
their inheritance be put unto the inheritance of the tribe whereunto they are received: so shall their inheritance be taken away from the inheritance of the tribe of our fathers.

So what to do with these jewess as heirs?
Well, they would only marry inside the tribe of their father.....


5 And Moses commanded the children of Israel according to the word of the LORD, saying, The tribe of the sons of Joseph hath said well.
6 This is the thing which the LORD doth command concerning the daughters of Zelophehad, saying, Let them marry to whom they think best; only to the family of the tribe of their father shall they marry. {marry: Heb. be wives }
7 So shall not the inheritance of the children of Israel remove from tribe to tribe: for every one of the children of Israel shall keep himself to the inheritance of the tribe of his fathers. {keep … : Heb. cleave to the, etc }
8 And every daughter, that possesseth an inheritance in any tribe of the children of Israel, shall be wife unto one of the family of the tribe of her father, that the children of Israel may enjoy every man the inheritance of his fathers.
9 Neither shall the inheritance remove from one tribe to another tribe; but every one of the tribes of the children of Israel shall keep himself to his own inheritance.


 
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ralliann

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Ac 16:3 Him would Paul have to go forth with him; and took and circumcised him because of the Jews which were in those quarters: for they knew all that his father was a Greek.

Paul was a benjamite I believe??? Timothy's mother and perhaps grandmother were accepted into Pauls tribe, as his natural father was a Greek. Their kinsman redeemer???? Perhaps even bestowing Roman citizenship?
Ac 22:26 When the centurion heard that, he went and told the chief captain, saying, Take heed what thou doest: for this man is a Roman.
Ac 22:27 Then the chief captain came, and said unto him, Tell me, art thou a Roman? He said, Yea.

1Ti 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
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Minister Monardo

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There is no Jewish Gentile hous
In Christ! To the Jew first, also the Gentile. My focus is that this Truth was foreshadowed throughout the narrative of scripture. That's all.
Luke 1:32. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David.
 
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ralliann

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I was speaking about the mix you presented in the line of David under the law. I don't mean to offend truly.
 
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Minister Monardo

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I was speaking about the mix you presented in the line of David under the law. I don't mean to offend truly.
No offense taken. I was not concerned with whether or not the Law would have had an issue. Just showing the foreshadowing of what we know now with regard to God's plan for the Gentiles. I believe that everything that took place was consistent with the Law. The covenant of the sure mercies of David is consistent with God's priority of election that Paul speaks about in Romans. I feel like we are in agreement, but somehow there is a hitch. I have to take responsibility, if the essay lacked that clarity. The apology is mine.
 
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ralliann

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I was speaking about the mix you presented in the line of David under the law. I don't mean to offend truly.
Another consideration concerning a woman and her children bringing her tribal status through her husband
The daughter of a priest could eat from her fathers table (holy things of the priestly offerings and gifts) while in her fathers house. but when she marries rules apply.
Marrying into a stranger (tribe estranged) from the priesthood could no longer eat from his table. But if she were widowed and returned she could eat of (the holy things) of her fathers table. Unless....she has children they cannot eat for they are strangers.
stranger here is not speaking of Gentiles, but anyone not of the tribe of Levi the priesthood.
Ex 29:33 And they shall eat those things wherewith the atonement was made, to consecrate and to sanctify them: but a stranger shall not eat thereof, because they are holy.
Le 22:10 There shall no stranger eat of the holy thing: a sojourner of the priest, or an hired servant, shall not eat of the holy thing.
Le 22:12 If the priest’s daughter also be married unto a stranger, she may not eat of an offering of the holy things. {a stranger: Heb. a man a stranger }
Le 22:13 But if the priest’s daughter be a widow, or divorced, and have no child, and is returned unto her father’s house, as in her youth, she shall eat of her father’s meat: but there shall no stranger eat thereof.
This too has to do with inheritance because all the tithe and gifts as well as the priesthood are the inheritance of the levites
 
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