The Sunday Law

[Sunrunner]

Have you really stopped and thought about the Sunday Law? I was thinking about it today... if it happens in my lifetime, it's going to be so hard..

 

[Sunrunner]

This is the article I read that made me start thinking. It's a prediction of what we might expect:
[SIZE=+1][/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]At this point in time it seems appropriate to deal with the circumstances expected to develop when Sunday Law persecution begins.[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] Natural disasters will come more frequently and will be felt in every part of the world. Things will get so bad that most everybody will be crying out in despair for mercy from the Lord. That will be the time when secular rulers and religious leaders are going to unite to enforce Sunday worship as this will appear to be the only hope for turning away the wrath of the Lord. Seventh-Day Adventists will be in agony not knowing what to do. Should they go to church both on Saturday AND on Sunday, or should they refuse to observe Sunday sacredness and as usual go to church on the Bible Sabbath (Saturday) only? Two groups will then be forming among 7th-Day Adventists, one group which will be in conformance with the new law of the land to obey and attend Sunday worship, the other group standing firm to worship on Saturday morning only. The first group will be respectably law abiding as far as this world is concerned whereas those belonging to the second group will become outcasts and be considered the scum of this world as they refuse to fall in line with the new law of the land calling for mandatory Sunday worship. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Today most 7th-Day Adventists believe that those who will be falling away to go along with Sunday worship will also be the ones who are going to leave the Church proper. Certainly, they will be leaving God's True Church, but does that mean they will no longer be using 7th-Day Adventist church facilities? Could it be that just by switching to Sunday worship during the coming time of persecution brethren would be automatically excluded from membership in God's True Church without actually separating from the church structure? There will be no outward sign at first that those who have switched to Sunday worship are no longer counted among God's people as both the faithful and the unfaithful will still be enjoying Conference church membership. God's True Church can function anywhere without church buildings, without padded pews and even without Conference bank accounts, whereas the worldly (then Sunday worshiping) faction will not and cannot do without these things. And why should they? After all, they will be seen as law abiding citizen and should therefore have the right to continue administration of the church structure. Nothing much will change among regular 7th-Day Adventists except that Sunday worship will become mandatory as required by law and that Saturday (Sabbath) worship will be of a voluntary nature.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]What will God's true servants do, those who will not give in to forced Sunday worship? Nothing much at first, but they will be puzzled as to why the unfaithful Sunday group does not leave the Conference church environment. Nevertheless, the faithful will be patient and happy to attend the usual Saturday (Sabbath) services mingling with some of those who go to church on both days of the weekend - believe it or not, there will be Saturday and Sunday services within 7th-Day Adventist church buildings! Church leadership will have no choice than to make Sunday morning services available to avoid the danger of having the entire Adventist Conference structure shut down by civil authorities.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]At that time everybody will try to remain calm not wanting to cause any problems as nobody seems to fully understand what is going on. But as soon as Sunday worship will be controlled and rigorously enforced on pain of losing all commercial privileges (buying & selling) it will dawn on the small group of faithful Sabbath keepers that THEY may have to be the ones who would have to leave and do without church facilities because the larger, so called "law abiding" Sunday group is not going to abandon everything so dear to them to which they seem to have the legitimate right, namely church buildings, schools, universities, financial assets and power. Some of God's faithful people will be fleeing to the wilderness at this time while others will continue to attend Saturday morning Sabbath services only to be singled out by the authorities for not participating in mandatory Sunday worship. Very few will then be able to escape before being arrested, most will end up in prison or concentration camps. This has been plainly foretold in the book [/SIZE][SIZE=+1]Cosmic Conflict[/SIZE][SIZE=+1] (1884 edition of the Great Controversy, chapter-34):[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]"Many of all nations and all classes, high and low, rich and poor, black and white, will be cast into the most unjust and cruel bondage. The beloved of God pass weary days, bound in chains, shut in by prison bars, sentenced to be slain, some apparently left to die of starvation in dark and loathsome dungeons. No human ear is open to hear their moans; no human hand is ready to lend them help". That chapter also mentions some who earlier have fled from cities and villages to associate together in companies dwelling in the most desolate and solitary places, even in the strongholds of the mountains.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Looks like all of God's faithful people are to be found either in the wilderness or in prison camps during the furor of Sunday Law persecution. So then, who at that time will be using 7th-Day Adventist church facilities? Wouldn't it be those who will have switched to Sunday worship? Some of these will go to church on Saturday also, thinking the Lord will understand if under the prevailing circumstances they worship both days of the weekend, that the Lord would accept their service. But He won't, because trying to keep God's Bible Sabbath holy and at the same time go along with Sunday sacredness is like serving two masters. This kind of approach is not advisable today, and in the time of Sunday law persecution it will lead to receiving the Mark of the Beast (Rev.13:18). Things weren't any different in the time of Israel's apostasy. They were maintaining the temple service, and at the same time worshiping Baal also. Israel at that time also was serving two masters.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Here is another way to look at things, as to which group will have to do without church facilities in the very end. Let's go back and review what God's faithful did before in times of apostasy, like Enoch, Noah, Elijah, Jesus, the Waldenses, even those during the time leading up to the events of 1844. One can see that it always has been the faithful minority separating from the greater body of the apostate church. Does that mean that God's faithful were leaving the Church in each case? Not at all, because God's True Church ALWAYS is where His people are and this Church is NOT necessarily in the same place where buildings and other assets are.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+1]Most 7th-Day Adventists believe that even today the Church is filled with wheat and tares, that this must continue until the end when the Lord will separate the faithful from those who will cave in to Sunday worship. It is my hope that brethren will understand when the final persecution comes, things will not develop along now perceived lines, that the unfaithful majority would flee and leave church buildings and financial assets behind, no, on the contrary, it most likely will be the other way around. This will be the omega apostasy and it will be of a most startling nature (EGW). The ship that in the end is to go through, this is God's True Church without the buildings and without financial assets. It cannot be any other way because the Lord has no use for man made treasures. The brethren who will be languishing in prison cells and those who managed to escape to the wilderness will be the special property of the Lord, and not those who give in to legalized Sunday worship who at the very end are still proud to be in control of the physical church.
[/SIZE]

 

[capnator]

[SIZE=+1]Here is another way to look at things, as to which group will have to do without church facilities in the very end. Let's go back and review what God's faithful did before in times of apostasy, like Enoch, Noah, Elijah, Jesus, the Waldenses, even those during the time leading up to the events of 1844. One can see that it always has been the faithful minority separating from the greater body of the apostate church. Does that mean that God's faithful were leaving the Church in each case? Not at all, because God's True Church ALWAYS is where His people are and this Church is NOT necessarily in the same place where buildings and other assets are.[/SIZE]

The Pharasees and teachers of the law in christ's time knew the prophecies and the OT back to front and failed to see the messiah when he showed up, the same thing will happen again.

God's church is not the SDA church, it's those people that are following his will for their lives in all areas, this deception that comes at the end will be POWERFUL, & logical and it will decieve if possible even the elect, it's not gonna be clear cut and easily defined as we like to think that we can but it will most definately sort out the sheep from the goats!

Seek God with all your heart NOW or it doesnt matter what you know or what you think you know because you will end up on the wrong side of the fence.

 

[Telaquapacky]

The Pharasees and teachers of the law in christ's time knew the prophecies and the OT back to front and failed to see the messiah when he showed up, the same thing will happen again.

God's church is not the SDA church, it's those people that are following his will for their lives in all areas, this deception that comes at the end will be POWERFUL, & logical and it will decieve if possible even the elect, it's not gonna be clear cut and easily defined as we like to think that we can but it will most definately sort out the sheep from the goats!

Seek God with all your heart NOW or it doesnt matter what you know or what you think you know because you will end up on the wrong side of the fence.

Cap, you've made an important point. We could tell someone that the mark of the beast is the Sunday Law, and even if we could convince them, or even if they saw it happening, and said, "Oh No! Everthing those Adventists were saying must be true!" even then that would not guarantee that person could escape taking the mark.

I think the mark is a provocative event that will divide those who are loyal to God from those who are loyal to men in place of God. In some countries that might not take the shape of a Sunday Law like in America.

The deeper spiritual meaning of the mark in my opinion is that it appears after the description of the Seal of God. We know the Seal of God is the Holy Spirit. Sunday Law or no Sunday Law, the mark of the beast is by default. If you don't receive the sealing by the Holy Spirit, you automatically receive the mark of the beast.

We need to be praying every day for a fresh baptism of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Telaquapacky]

Have you really stopped and thought about the Sunday Law? I was thinking about it today... if it happens in my lifetime, it's going to be so hard..

Yes. I'm an optometrist, and to keep working (so I can buy and sell) I have to get fifty hours of continuing education every two years, because that is the requirement to renew my license. They used to trust us and not ask for proof when we renewed. Now they are instituting a card like a credit card that monitors our continuing education.

Now, I attend continuing education because I want to keep my skills and knowledge up to be able to best serve my patients, and they don't have to require it of me.

But most of those classes are on Saturday. Up to now, I have had no problem getting all the CE I needed. But if they made it illegal to offer it on Sunday, I might find it very difficult to renew my license.

Now, I don't work for anyone, I am self-employed. When I did, the big optometry chains like Eyexam and Pearl and Wal Mart Vision Center were hard to work for (not only because of their policies, but) because they all wanted me to work on Saturday, the biggest business day.

And in the winter, when daylight savings time is over, the sun sets at four o'clock. That is a problem for any Adventist when Friday rolls around, and your place of work is open until five. I got special treatment, but it didn't last long, therefore, I now work for myself.

But to buy my own practice I had to borrow four hundred thousand dollars, which the income of the practice is slowly paying off. If the Sunday Law makes me ineligible for work, my banker will say to me, "You owe us a lot of money. You're telling me you won't work on Saturday just because of your religion?"

They don't even need a dramatic National Sunday Law- to try to force me to work on Saturday to mess me up. All it takes is I can't get CE on Sunday. That could happen very easily.

 

[OntheDL]

Yes. I'm an optometrist, and to keep working (so I can buy and sell) I have to get fifty hours of continuing education every two years, because that is the requirement to renew my license. They used to trust us and not ask for proof when we renewed. Now they are instituting a card like a credit card that monitors our continuing education.

Now, I attend continuing education because I want to keep my skills and knowledge up to be able to best serve my patients, and they don't have to require it of me.

But most of those classes are on Saturday. Up to now, I have had no problem getting all the CE I needed. But if they made it illegal to offer it on Sunday, I might find it very difficult to renew my license.

Now, I don't work for anyone, I am self-employed. When I did, the big optometry chains like Eyexam and Pearl and Wal Mart Vision Center were hard to work for (not only because of their policies, but) because they all wanted me to work on Saturday, the biggest business day.

And in the winter, when daylight savings time is over, the sun sets at four o'clock. That is a problem for any Adventist when Friday rolls around, and your place of work is open until five. I got special treatment, but it didn't last long, therefore, I now work for myself.

But to buy my own practice I had to borrow four hundred thousand dollars, which the income of the practice is slowly paying off. If the Sunday Law makes me ineligible for work, my banker will say to me, "You owe us a lot of money. You're telling me you won't work on Saturday just because of your religion?"

They don't even need a dramatic National Sunday Law- to try to force me to work on Saturday to mess me up. All it takes is I can't get CE on Sunday. That could happen very easily.

Yeah, I know what you are saying. For my work, I'm on call once every two months. And thankfully, I can't remember the last time I got a page on Saturday. But that can change. So I'd have to make a choice. None of us who know the truth but chose not to do will have a part in the 2nd coming.

But the NSL will be a dividing point. Because everyone will be affected. And they will all know what they are chosing because the 3rd angel's message would have been preached in full force. So all those who receive it either agree or disagree but go along with it will have sealed themselves in destruction. Whereas now we still have a chance to repent.

 

[Dasdream]

if you ask me, it has already begun, I can't even get a job because I refuse to work on my Sabbath, eventhough I mention it on my application, that it is a religious matter, they don't care. I do hope that this happens during my life time as I am very determined to live by the Bible and am willing to help others in my condition. Has anyone ever seen the movie "the Final Battle" or "the last battle" it is a movie based on what we (SDA's ) will be going through in the final days.

 

[Telaquapacky]

if you ask me, it has already begun, I can't even get a job because I refuse to work on my Sabbath, eventhough I mention it on my application, that it is a religious matter, they don't care. I do hope that this happens during my life time as I am very determined to live by the Bible and am willing to help others in my condition. Has anyone ever seen the movie "the Final Battle" or "the last battle" it is a movie based on what we (SDA's ) will be going through in the final days.

Dasdream, that must be discouraging! Don't give up. If there is a way that you can work for yourself, that is the best way to go, especially if you can work from home or vehicle and don't have to rent space (then you're talking about a lease, which can be another nasty in the last days). We'll pray for you.

 

[Dasdream]

Dasdream, that must be discouraging! Don't give up. If there is a way that you can work for yourself, that is the best way to go, especially if you can work from home or vehicle and don't have to rent space (then you're talking about a lease, which can be another nasty in the last days). We'll pray for you.

yeah I got fired from one job, because I refused to work a mandatory overtime on Sabbath. But I don't care my Lord will always come first. God gave me the Sabbath so i could rest and by golly I will!

On a side note, I am starting to make a family business they are very talented with crafts, plus they sing and I am working on a book, so I am moving myself, but prayers are always welcome.

 

[OntheDL]

yeah I got fired from one job, because I refused to work a mandatory overtime on Sabbath. But I don't care my Lord will always come first. God gave me the Sabbath so i could rest and by golly I will!

On a side note, I am starting to make a family business they are very talented with crafts, plus they sing and I am working on a book, so I am moving myself, but prayers are always welcome.

Just to tell you know that you have an option to sue the employer. They can not fire you because of that. I know cases like that in which the employees were re-instated. I remembered a post office worker was fired because of it. There is/are SDA lawyer(s). You should seek some legal advise.

 

[Dasdream]

Just to tell you know that you have an option to sue the employer. They can not fire you because of that. I know cases like that in which the employees were re-instated. I remembered a post office worker was fired because of it. There is/are SDA lawyer(s). You should seek some legal advise.

Yeah but there is no proof, Judges are always in the favor of the person in the highest position, they never directly said I was fired because I refused to work on the sabbath but it's common sense, but people don't use common sense anymore. I need proof.

 

[mystery4]

Thank you sunrunner for mentioning this topic.

I believe there will be a Sunday law. And if I am not mistaken, Ellen White says that when the law comes for mandatory worship on Sunday that Adventist churches should open their doors on Sunday as well as Saturday. We are to do God's work on both days. It only becomes a problem when the Sunday law states that we are only to worship on Sunday. Thats when the real persecution is going to start. And God will give us the grace and courage to stand up for and with Him as we need it.

Here are a couple of quotes from ellen white regarding the matter from chapter 9 in Last Day Events. (You can view Ellen White's writings online here)

Refraining from work on Sunday is not receiving the mark of the beast. . . . In places where the opposition is so strong as to arouse persecution, if work is done on Sunday, let our brethren make that day an occasion to do genuine missionary work.--SW 69, 70 (1895). {LDE 139.1}

Sunday can be used for carrying forward various lines of work that will accomplish much for the Lord. On this day open-air meetings and cottage meetings can be held. House-to-house work can be done. Those who write can devote this day to writing their articles. Whenever it is possible, let religious services be held on Sunday. Make these meetings intensely interesting. Sing genuine revival hymns, and speak with power and assurance of the Saviour's love.--9T 232, 233 (1909). {LDE 140.2}

 

[Sunrunner]

Thanks, mystery4. I actually remembering reading those passages now. Sort of changes your perspective on the article, eh?

 

[mystery4]

yea, I must admit, I started reading it but got quite frustrated with it, so didn't actually finish reading it... but I do find end times a really facinating topic... I'm actually quite excited about it but I know we all need to do alot of work and its only by God's grace that he is holding things back at the moment. We need to share God's love with as many people as we can both now and while the persecution is happening...

 

[masmpg]

Here we are one major leap toward the anxiously awaited National SUNDAY Law. This sermon was given on 1 Dec 2006. Take heed to this. I have been trying to find an SDA forum to shout this to, but what I am finding is very heartbreaking. ALL the topics in the forums, that are discussed most are about trivial matters compared to our duty to blow the trumpet in Zion. I love God’s church with King Jesus at it’s head, but where is it? This forum seems to be trying to give the trumpet a certain sound. . .

I looked up primordial nucleus seperately. . .check it out:
Primordial
1. Being or happening first in sequence of time; original.
2. Primary or fundamental: play a primordial role.

Nucleus
1. A central or essential part around which other parts are gathered or grouped; a core: the nucleus of a city.
2. Something regarded as a basis for future development and growth; a kernel: a few paintings that formed the nucleus of a great art collection.

Friday, December 01, 2006
Sundays are the “primordial nucleus” of the liturgical year, Pope affirms

Pope Benedict XVI has sent a message to Cardinal Francis Arinze ahead of the Congregation for Divine Worship’s study day on the Sunday Mass. The Holy Father told those involved in the study group that Sundays remain the central focus of the Church’s liturgical year and that there is a need to, “reiterate the sacred nature of the Lord’s day and the need to participate in Sunday Mass.

Cardinal Arinze, who serves as Prefect for the congregation called the study day under the theme: “Sunday Mass for the sanctification of Christian people."

The Pope’s letter, which is dated November 27 but was made public today, recalls how the study day falls on the anniversary of the promulgation of the Constitution "Sacrosanctum Concilium," and is the third of its kind following one dedicated to the Roman Martyrology and another to sacred music.

"Sundays," writes the Pope, "remain the fundamental seedbed and the primordial nucleus of the liturgical year... a fragment of time pervaded by eternity, because its dawn saw the Risen Christ enter victoriously into eternal life."

"For the first Christians, participation in Sunday celebrations was the natural expression of their belonging to Christ, of their communion with His mystical Body, in joyous expectation of His glorious return."

“Today," the Holy Father continued, "it is more than ever necessary to reiterate the sacred nature of the Lord's day and the need to participate in Sunday Mass. The cultural context in which we live, often marked by religious indifference and secularism that obscure the horizon of transcendence, must not cause us to forget that the People of God who came into being with the events of Easter must return [to those events] as an inexhaustible spring, in order to better understand ... their own identity and the reasons for their existence."

"Sunday was not chosen by the Christian community," he wrote, "rather by the Apostles, indeed by Christ Himself Who on that day, "the first day of the week," arose and appeared before the disciples. ... Each Sunday celebration of the Eucharist enacts the sanctification of Christian people, until that Sunday without end, the day of the definitive encounter of God with His creatures."

Benedict XVI closed his message by expressing the hope that the study day "may help to recover the Christian meaning of Sunday in ... the life of all believers."

While driving home today I heard something that was alarming also. Some might say this has been going on for a long time, but not like this. . .I was listening to a nominal “christian” radio station when the speaker started talking about how the roman church is trying to personate Jesus through miracles. This might not seem like such a big deal. . .the roman church has been claiming to do this for years, BUT THIS IS OUR JOB!!! God took the gospel away from the jews and gave it to the gentiles. We, as Seventh Day Adventists have the most solemn commission. . .”go ye therefore” we are to preach the gospel, but now is the time to blow the trumpet. We are told at our churches not to rock the boat. . .”There might be catholics in the pews so we cannot offend. . .” What do we say about that? I find myself outwardly agreeing, well that time is over. We cannot agree, We must put our foot down IN OUR CHURCHES!!! Jesus went to the synagogue when His people knew Him not. Are we to start homechurches, or are we to meet the iceberg even if it means disfellowshipping?

In Christian Love
Jeff W

 

[masmpg]

Return the Church and moral law to their proper place in society, Pope Benedict tells Italian lawyers
​

Vatican City, Dec. 11, 2006 (CNA) - Saturday Pope Benedict XVI received participants in the 56th national study congress, promoted by the Union of Italian Catholic Jurists, which is being held in Rome on the theme: "Secularity and secularities." The Holy Father told the lawyers how the idea of secularity has been corrupted and challenged them to create a society in which the Church and the moral law are returned to their rightful place.

The concept of secularity, said the Holy Father in his address to the group, originally referred to "the condition of simple faithful Christian, not belonging to the clergy or the religious state. During the Middle Ages it acquired the meaning of opposition between civil authorities and ecclesial hierarchies, and in modern times it has assumed the significance of the exclusion of religion and its symbols from public life by confining them to the private sphere and the individual conscience. In this way, the term secularity has acquired an ideological meaning quite opposite to the one it originally held."

Secularity today, then, "is understood as a total separation between State and Church, the latter not having any right to intervene in questions concerning the life and behavior of citizens. And such secularity even involves the exclusion of religious symbols from public places."

In accordance with this definition, the Pope continued, "today we hear talk of secular thought, secular morals, secular science, secular politics. In fact, at the root of such a concept, is an a-religious view of life, thought and morals; that is, a view in which there is no place for God, for a Mystery that transcends pure reason, for a moral law of absolute value that is valid in all times and situations."

The Holy Father underlined the need "to create a concept of secularity that, on the one hand, grants God and His moral law, Christ and His Church, their just place in human life at both an individual and a social level, and on the other hand affirms and respects the 'legitimate autonomy of earthly affairs'."

The Church, the Pope reiterated, cannot intervene in politics, because that would "constitute undue interference."

However, he said, "'healthy secularity' means that the State does not consider religion merely as an individual sentiment that can be confined to the private sphere." Rather, it must be "recognized as a ... public presence. This means that all religious confessions (so long as they do not contrast the moral order and are not dangerous to public order) are guaranteed free exercise of their acts of worship."

Hostility against "any form of political or cultural relevance of religion," and in particular against "any kind of religious symbol in public institutions" is a degenerated form of secularity, said the Holy Father, as is "refusing the Christian community, and those who legitimately represent it, the right to pronounce on the moral problems that today appeal to the conscience of all human beings, particularly of legislators.

"This," he added, "does not constitute undue interference of the Church in legislative activity, which is the exclusive competence of the State, but the affirmation and the defense of those great values that give meaning to people's lives and safeguard their dignity. These values, even before being Christian, are human, and therefore cannot leave the Church silent and indifferent, when she has the duty firmly to proclaim the truth about man and his destiny."

The Pope concluded by highlighting the need "to bring people to understand that the moral law God gave us - and that expresses itself in us through the voice of conscience - has the aim not of oppressing us but of freeing us from evil and of making us happy. We must show that without God man is lost, and that the exclusion of religion from social life, and in particular the marginalization of Christianity, undermines the very foundations of human coexistence. Such foundations, indeed, before being of the social and political order, belong to the moral order."

Are you reading between the lines here. The papal agenda is vey obvious here.
God Bless you
Jeff W

 

[masmpg]

The Lord's Day
​

December coincides with the anniversary of the promulgation of the Second Vatican Council constitution on the liturgy, "Sacrosanctum Concilium."

For the prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Sacraments, it is a month that sets the tone for the year ahead and allows for reflection on the year passed.

Cardinal Francis Arinze shared how some occasions organized by his Vatican dicastery have been recalling significant themes with the aim of continuous formation in liturgical matters.

Just last week the 74-year-old cardinal sponsored a study day held in Paul VI Hall which dealt with keeping Sundays sacred.

The Pope's considerations on the topic of Sunday Mass were central to the reflections of the international group. There was a special message from Benedict XVI as well as a presentation entitled "Sunday, a Feast of the Eucharist as Discovered Through the Writings of Cardinal Ratzinger."

Cardinal Arinze said the general message from the meeting was that "Sunday is not a day for wholesale shopping but a day to give more attention to God and should be emphasized as such."

"Again we individuated the factors that attempt to take the place of the celebration of the Sunday Eucharist," he added. "We want to clarify that Sunday is not merely a part of a weekend when we can do all those things we didn't get around to doing during the week, such as sleep longer, go to the mountains, go swimming, go to the seaside.

"There are others who go to watch or play sport, or have a 12-course lunch. … All these things are good, but they are not the point of the Lord's Day."

Throughout its round-table discussion and question time, the group aimed to underline ways to re-energize the sanctification experience Sunday Mass can offer.

"We recommend the faithful try some sacred readings following the Mass," said Cardinal Arinze. "Adoration time is good too, as is even meeting with other community members afterward. These actions can give more attention to God, thus contributing to the blessedness of this special day."

Cardinal Arinze said the main challenge facing his Vatican congregation is to encourage a spirit of prayer, which must grow out of faith. But he added that high-quality liturgies were the secret -- perhaps trying an occasional Latin hymn or prayer as a finishing touch.

In fact, "Language in the Roman Rite Liturgy -- Latin and the Vernacular" was the theme of a speech he gave recently at another study day, this time held in the Archdiocese of St. Louis, in the United States, from where he had just returned.

"Of course it's important to clarify," the cardinal began, "that originally it was really Greek that was used in Rome for the first two centuries. Latin gradually became the language of the Roman rite only in the third and fourth centuries."

Here, Cardinal Arinze recalled the many other rites within the Catholic Church which use different languages. But he returns to focus on why the Roman rite adopted Latin as its language.

"Latin gives a type of stability," the cardinal noted. "It doesn't change like other modern spoken languages; […] take the word 'propaganda' for instance."

The Church prefers to make concepts very clear, he continued. "It's a concise and noble language and, moreover, it's a universal language of the Church" that can cross cultural boundaries.

This is a theme close to home throughout these days as the Vox Clara Committee convenes in the offices of the Congregation for Divine Worship. The committee advises the Vatican's liturgical agency on English translations.

"Though the Second Vatican Council did not put Latin aside at all … the vernacular is here to stay," commented Cardinal Arinze. "And the Church doesn't regret the introduction of local languages at all."

It is crucial that the translations are well monitored by local bishops and that the texts are brought by the prelates to the Congregation for Divine Worship for the seal of approval in the name of the Pope.

No one should make his own translations because the liturgy is the whole Church praying with Christ at the head, the cardinal explained. "Nobody should smuggle in individual words or choices, let alone ideologies, and try to make them a part of the language of the Church."

Nevertheless, Cardinal Arinze believes it would be ideal for parish life if, from time to time, the faithful had a Mass in Latin. Or at least a few songs or chants.

"We can consider Gregorian music -- it's like half meditation, part love of God and part mystical absorption in God," he said, "But how can we think of it without Latin?"

His advice is for bigger churches in a diocese to include a few Latin songs throughout their liturgical celebration: "One of these could at least include the Gloria, Sanctus, or the Credo and then give the people the choice."

"That way," the cardinal continued, "we can guarantee that we're using those same words that were uttered by St. Augustine, St. Thomas Aquinas or St. Teresa of Avila. The Church didn't begin yesterday and it's not an affair of one country or one village. We thank God we're in a universal Church and thank God for the gift of the liturgy and the option of using the Latin language during it."

SUNday law in our day??? Yes indeed

God Bless you
Jeff W

 

[Jimlarmore]

I don't think the Sunday laws could make it past our governing bodies right now without a drastic need to make it happen. The U.S. constitution is too closely guarded at this point. The key to seeing how this will go down happened a few years ago. Did you noticed how the population reacted right after the attack on 9-11? Massive church attendance like was never before seen was going on world wide. So, it's kind of easy to see how this could all happen. The stage is basically set right now.

Coordinated efforts by terrorists world wide with weapons of mass destruction could bring our world wide community into a chaos situation. One more attack won't do it but when the winds of strife are really let loose I believe they will attack all over our world with fury unseen up till now and there will be a world wide cry to do something to stop all of this. That "something" will be a forced return to God to stave off this curse and chaos in the world.

Many religious leaders will point out that this scurge is the result of an extreme secular society i.e. gay marriage, denying the existence of God, loose morals in general. They will trumpet the only course ahead is to repent of our sins and come back to God now. They will even advocate a forced religious observance on all of mankind. When things get bad enough this will seem like the logical thing to do. According to the Bible the U.S.A. will lead the world in making this happen. This is when the "National Sunday laws" will be inacted. Along with several other religious laws.

What better leader than the head of the universal church to dictate these policies and laws?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

 

[OntheDL]

I don't think the Sunday laws could make it past our governing bodies right now without a drastic need to make it happen. The U.S. constitution is too closely guarded at this point. The key to seeing how this will go down happened a few years ago. Did you noticed how the population reacted right after the attack on 9-11? Massive church attendance like was never before seen was going on world wide. So, it's kind of easy to see how this could all happen. The stage is basically set right now.

Coordinated efforts by terrorists world wide with weapons of mass destruction could bring our world wide community into a chaos situation. One more attack won't do it but when the winds of strife are really let loose I believe they will attack all over our world with fury unseen up till now and there will be a world wide cry to do something to stop all of this. That "something" will be a forced return to God to stave off this curse and chaos in the world.

Many religious leaders will point out that this scurge is the result of an extreme secular society i.e. gay marriage, denying the existence of God, loose morals in general. They will trumpet the only course ahead is to repent of our sins and come back to God now. They will even advocate a forced religious observance on all of mankind. When things get bad enough this will seem like the logical thing to do. According to the Bible the U.S.A. will lead the world in making this happen. This is when the "National Sunday laws" will be inacted. Along with several other religious laws.

What better leader than the head of the universal church to dictate these policies and laws?

God Bless
Jim Larmore

Good post Jim.

Yeah, it is not what we perceive to be possible. Was the possibility of world wide flood in the minds of the unbeliever when they heard Noah's message? Of course not. The earth had never rained before.

Our country, as much as I had loved it, has become a democracy from the republic which founding fathers built by constitution.

The laws have changed in our legislature which a simple majority can overwrite an existing law: know about Patriat Acts, National Security laws ...these laws are unconstitional. They gave the presidents the dictorial power.

The former supreme court chief justice William Reinquist declare the seperation of Church and State was based on bad history.

All the conditions, all the laws have set in place for the endtime events to unfold. All we need is a couple catastraphic events to occur. But our Lord is merciful. His angels are holding back the winds of strife until His servants are all sealed with the seal of God.

 

[Jimlarmore]

Yep my birth-day is on Christmas day 12-25. My mother was a great psychologist. She always told me I was the luckiest kid in the world being born on Christmas. She said everyone in the Christian world celebrates your birthday. I always thought I was so lucky until I got to be around 13 or 14 when some of my peers started to tell me that I was getting ripped off because of the presents. Mom always told me when I was opening my Christmas gifts that "This One" is your birthday present. So I was fine with that until I got a little older. Selfish kids,,,,,,,,,, right? Now it really doesn't matter it's just another year gone by. The only thing that bothers me about my birthday now is the paganistic significance of what happened on that day many years ago.

It is a great time of the year as long as you realize the reason for the season. It can be a great time that promotes peace. During world war 1 on Christmas eve night amiss the fighting a young German soldier stood up unarmed and started singing "silent night". Even though the allies coudn't understand the words the song was universally recognizable and they began to sing it as well. Soon there was no more gun fire and many of soldiers that a few minutes earlier had been trying to kill each other were now in the middle no man's land shaking hands and exchanging tobacco and food wishing each other a merry Christmas. The spirit of God on Christmas had brought a small tid bit of peace to a war ravaged spot on earth.

God Bless

Jim Larmore