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It is important to keep in mind that the overall truth of election and predestination is foreknowledge. God knows every soul even before they were born (e.g. Jeremiah 1:5). He knows who will have a thankful heart to the Creator and respond to the "quickening" to light. The gospel is to all, but all will not receive it, which God knows full well. He will thus elect those He chooses, for faithful souls are "chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world". The man Judas was a suitable vessel for the vile deed of betrayal, because he was greedy and a self-exalted one, and God used him.
- 1 Watchman
Free will and predestination are truths that balance each other, but absolute predication of predestination has fatal consequences for humble people than free will predication; Saint Ignacio de Loloya in "Ejercicios Espirituales" notes this truth;
Predestination regarless free will leeds ignorant people to leave effort on justice and mercy, because they will think that concerning on salvation is useless, against gospel;
Christ said that salvation is for those who try hard and go through narrow path, and they who go through wide path go to hell.
Christ said that the lasy brides will not enter in the wedding hall, and that diligent brides will enter with the groom.
Christ said that those who do not make their cons increase will go outside to darkness and teeth grinding, and those who try hard and increase coins will receive kingdoms.
Christ said that those who are not merciful will have no mercy and will go to hell.
Christ said that those who persevere to the end will be saved.
So, why calvinist justifies their wrong doctrine in the bible?
## RightApparently you and I disagree regarding the Bible. That is ok, as we are all Christians, right?
## The trouble is, that this argument has NT sanction - which is not exactly helpful.Saying "You are wrong, because your mind is darkened while I have supernatural enlightenment beyond human understanding" is not a good argument.
Free will and predestination are truths that balance each other, but absolute predication of predestination has fatal consequences for humble people than free will predication; Saint Ignacio de Loloya in "Ejercicios Espirituales" notes this truth;
Predestination regarless free will leeds ignorant people to leave effort on justice and mercy, because they will think that concerning on salvation is useless, against gospel;
Christ said that salvation is for those who try hard and go through narrow path, and they who go through wide path go to hell.
Christ said that the lasy brides will not enter in the wedding hall, and that diligent brides will enter with the groom.
Christ said that those who do not make their cons increase will go outside to darkness and teeth grinding, and those who try hard and increase coins will receive kingdoms.
Christ said that those who are not merciful will have no mercy and will go to hell.
Christ said that those who persevere to the end will be saved.
So, why calvinist justifies their wrong doctrine in the bible?
What you seem to be advocating is salvation by works. Are you saying that being saved is not by God's unmerited grace, but is a reward for persevering in living a holy life?
Where does the Scripture support that? From what I read is that Paul said that we are saved by grace and not by works; it is the gift of God and not of ourselves lest any man should boast.
So, if salvation is a reward for being merciful and persevering in a holy life, then it is not a gift of God, but a reward for good works, Salvation by works is no salvation at all, and Jesus would not have had to come and die for our sins and be a sacrifice for our guilt and punishment.
You are confusing Justification, which is salvation by grace, and Sanctification, which is living a holy life. A person has to be saved by the unmerited grace of God before he can start to live a holy life.
An unsaved person trying to live a holy life in order to be saved is on a hopeless journey because even his attempts at goodness, outside of Christ, is just another degree of badness, and as the Scripture says, all our righteousness is as filthy (menstrual) rags in the sight of God. All that a person gains in trying to be good to gain a reward from God is self-righteousness, and this is an abomination to God.
There is no salvation in any other except in Christ. And a person saved through Christ is saved by the pure grace and mercy of God, before any good works are attempted.
I suggest you read the books of Romans and Galatians a little more carefully, and get a reliable commentary that will explain it to you. Martin Luther's commentary on Galatians is an excellent work to help you understand what Justification is all about.
If you go back to the first paragraph, I believe he was stating how that absolute predestination leaves out grace and mercy, whereas predestination balanced with free will (like we have discussed) is more biblicly accurate.
What you seem to be advocating is salvation by works. Are you saying that being saved is not by God's unmerited grace, but is a reward for persevering in living a holy life?
Where does the Scripture support that? From what I read is that Paul said that we are saved by grace and not by works; it is the gift of God and not of ourselves lest any man should boast.
So, if salvation is a reward for being merciful and persevering in a holy life, then it is not a gift of God, but a reward for good works, Salvation by works is no salvation at all, and Jesus would not have had to come and die for our sins and be a sacrifice for our guilt and punishment.
You are confusing Justification, which is salvation by grace, and Sanctification, which is living a holy life. A person has to be saved by the unmerited grace of God before he can start to live a holy life.
An unsaved person trying to live a holy life in order to be saved is on a hopeless journey because even his attempts at goodness, outside of Christ, is just another degree of badness, and as the Scripture says, all our righteousness is as filthy (menstrual) rags in the sight of God. All that a person gains in trying to be good to gain a reward from God is self-righteousness, and this is an abomination to God.
There is no salvation in any other except in Christ. And a person saved through Christ is saved by the pure grace and mercy of God, before any good works are attempted.
I suggest you read the books of Romans and Galatians a little more carefully, and get a reliable commentary that will explain it to you. Martin Luther's commentary on Galatians is an excellent work to help you understand what Justification is all about.
I believe no matter what i think, will, do, and say! That God is In Control of it all! We could not be able to have 1 ounce of power to think, and logically reason every second of every day if it were not for GOD!!! I live with someone who has Alzhiemers! Who lives in a human body,yet has no more ability than a cat to think,and reason! We are powerless to take in our very next breath!! Unless GOD "Chooses" to give it to us, Amen!
SeraphimsCherub
Luther in commentary of Galatians says that human deeds are always evil, deserving the punishement of hell, against catholic doctrine, set up in Trento: human deeds are good or evil according to obedience at God. So a heathen can make good deeds; this is the right understanding of scripture, according to scripture itself: Cornelius, before becoming christian through predication of Peter, prayed to God and was merciful, and the Angel of God revealed him that he pleased the Lord.
According to calvinist, heathens are doomed always, but catholic doctrine, a more sound doctrine that calvinist doctrine is, teaches that a heathen can be saved by his obedience at God.
In fact, obedience at God is the action of Christ: he is the son; so, when a man obeys God, is working in the work of Christ, so he is in the road of salvation. Christianity provides and breeds men for salvation plentiful, but a heathen can be saved without these advantages. I like the creed of Valdens because their point on sacraments is very sound.
Before revealed religion (christianity), there´s a natural religion, based on obedience at God and raison: this natural religion demands revealed religion, but the light of both is the same: Christ. Calvinist are opposed to sound doctrine of obedience, so they are in herexy.
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