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the self replicating watch argument

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xianghua

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I say that you are in over your head, you dont understand the basics and cannot therefore answer incredibly basic questions that has to be answered if its science.
but you asked for creation predictions so i gave you one. if you refer to falsifiability then you can try to prove that a creature can evolve into another kind of creature. but remember that evolution itself cant be test so its not scientific either.
 
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pitabread

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great. so what is the difference between this and that?:

That's easy. The one with bicycles, cars, etc, isn't a real phylogenetic tree. It just looks like something you drew in Paint.
 
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VirOptimus

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but you asked for creation predictions so i gave you one. if you refer to falsifiability then you can try to prove that a creature can evolve into another kind of creature. but remember that evolution itself cant be test so its not scientific either.

... you seriously saying that the ToE isnt scientific?
 
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pitabread

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so a car and a truck basically share the same level of similarity?

No, that's not what I've claimed.

Rather what I found was that depending on the individual tree, certain trucks will have more in common with other cars than each other.

In order words vehicles aren't sorting themselves into the perfect categories you think they should.

you just tets it with 14 traits. when in re ality we should check the entire object.

If you don't like the data I used or think there should be more characteristics used, then go ahead and test it yourself. Just whining about the data I picked isn't getting us anywhere.

Besides, when phylogenetic trees are constructed on biological organisms they often aren't created via the "entire object". They can be created with as little as a single gene for example.


You're just reinforcing my point. All the characteristics you list aren't specific to a category of vehicle. A truck doesn't have to have mudflaps or big wheels or a reverse alarm to be classified as a truck.

The fact that so many characteristics have no basis on the vehicle's classification is why we shouldn't expect to be able to create statistically convergent trees based on vehicle characteristics.
 
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TLK Valentine

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And yet you claim that light takes eight minutes to get to here from the Sun, which, in case you missed it, is not "here."

You seem to believe this -- but why? Have you seen time on the Sun?
 
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dad

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Then its a worthless "model".
To folks who are not aware of the big picture and all that is involved, basing all things on haplessly partial info might seem cool. Others see the willing ignorance in such ritualistic abuses of intelligence and honesty.
 
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dad

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And yet you claim that light takes eight minutes to get to here from the Sun, which, in case you missed it, is not "here."
Since I have defined the fishbowl as the solar system, and area, it is right in the heart of here actually.
 
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doubtingmerle

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great. so what is the difference between this and that?:
View attachment 222923

vs:

"This" is not a unique, consistent, well-supported tree. "That" is.

Again, here is a quote from the file I keep linking to

The difference between classifying cars and classifying languages lies in the fact that, with cars, certain characters (for example, color or manufacturer) must be considered more important than other characters in order for the classification to work. Which types of car characters are more important depends upon the personal preference of the individual who is performing the classification. In other words, certain types of characters must be weighted subjectively in order to classify cars in nested hierarchies; cars do not fall into natural, unique, objective nested hierarchies.

Because of these facts, a cladistic analysis of cars will not produce a unique, consistent, well-supported tree that displays nested hierarchies.

29+ Evidences for Macroevolution: Part 1
If you would actually read that link you would know what we are taking about. But you refuse to read it and ask us to explain it over and over again. If you would actually click on the link it would save us endless repetition.
 
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daleksteve

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A creator must have a beginning though. I think God maybe is a paradox.

Lets say in the the future humnas create
 
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daleksteve

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A creator must have a beginning though. I think God maybe is a paradox.

Lets say in the the future advanced humans create God and then he goes on to Create humans. in essence a time paradox.
 
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doubtingmerle

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Got it. You are just going to parse our posts into chunks and just repeat the same nonsense, hoping that the rubes are impressed that you keep getting the last word in. I don't have time for that so I am just going to just tell you how it is.

There never was a global flood. You have appealed to a different nature with different rates of radioactive decay and evolution to argue for the flood. All this requires a different physics. But we know the laws of physics have been constant in time and space. We have seen it for ourselves in the light that comes from distant stars, which we can tell was made in a place with the same physics long ago.

The stars are trillions of miles away. This has been confirmed multiple ways by science. You don't understand why scientists say this, you apparently have no interest in understanding this, and you apparently disagree without ever understanding. The evidence is there if you wish to look.

Light has never traveled faster than the speed of light. Again this has been confirmed repeatedly by science. You don't understand the science, appear to have no interest in understanding, and again apparently disagree.

But we can tell how far the stars were when the light left them, and know the speed of the light, and thus we can tell when the light left the stars. Its a simple calculation.

So go ahead and parse this into bits with stupid comments after each sentence to impress the rubes. That means nothing. Meanwhile science marches on.
 
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pitabread

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So go ahead and parse this into bits with stupid comments after each sentence to impress the rubes. That means nothing. Meanwhile science marches on.

Considering dad even gets into it with other creationists, I wonder who he's really impressing on these forums. Does *anyone* agree with his views?
 
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TLK Valentine

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Since I have defined the fishbowl as the solar system, and area, it is right in the heart of here actually.

And your definition is worth what, exactly?
 
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Bungle_Bear

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And yet you claim that light takes eight minutes to get to here from the Sun, which, in case you missed it, is not "here."

You seem to believe this -- but why? Have you seen time on the Sun?
He actually claimed 8 seconds. But that's probably right using dad-physics.
 
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dad

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And your definition is worth what, exactly?
Well, if you are calling 'here' in reference to what time is like anything else than the defined area, you are talking nonsense asking how we know time exists here.
 
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dad

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Considering dad even gets into it with other creationists, I wonder who he's really impressing on these forums. Does *anyone* agree with his views?
You are here to try to impress? So how do you get that done, agree with whatever religion that called science says without pause or question?
 
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dad

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He actually claimed 8 seconds. But that's probably right using dad-physics.
No, let's give science credit for what is actually knowable, measured, and observed in this here lovely little fishbowl we live in. Man has sent a probe almost a whole light day away. Don't try to take that from them.
 
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