the self replicating watch argument

Kylie · Jan 14, 2018

xianghua said:
so you have no reference. thanks

Do you think evolution falls apart if we can't provide every single number you want?

The last time you drove to the shops, how many revolutions did the wheels make? If you can't answer that, why should we believe that you ever went to the shops?

Kylie · Jan 14, 2018

xianghua said:
no. if you cant know how many mutations need to evolve an eye- then you cant know if evolution is possible.

We don't need to know exactly how many mutations are needed for it to happen in order to know that it did happen.

Just like we don't need to know how many revolutions your cars wheels made the last time you drove to the shops in order to know that you have driven to the shops.

Kylie · Jan 14, 2018

xianghua said:
so it can function as a lens already?

there is also the problem of the first step- how a minimal eye evolved at the first place?.

I think you need to read post 517 again...

Kylie · Jan 14, 2018

xianghua said:
heat isnt light. so this isnt a light detector.

Rubbish. Do you know what infra red radiation is? It's LIGHT. We feel it on our skins as HEAT. You really don't know what you are talking about.

Kylie · Jan 14, 2018

xianghua said:
so we have a photoreceptor in every cell in our skin?

We have sensors all over our skin that can detect certain kinds of light. As I said, skin can detect infra red light. Our skin feels it as heat.

That's why you can tell when you put your hand into the sun or into the shade on a warm day.

stevevw · Jan 14, 2018

It is the codes, systems and laws behind what we see that make the watch work that need to be accounted for. Otherwise they are just bits of metal and organic matter that do nothing. These did not just come out of thin air and nor can any naturalistic process create them.

The universe is made of math and therefore has the hallmarks of design.
Everything in the Universe Is Made of Math – Including You
Everything in the Universe Is Made of Math – Including You | DiscoverMagazine.com

The universe is fine tuned and therefore has the hallmarks of design. From the very first split second the universe began it needed very precise conditions to produce what we see today. That cannot happen from a random chaotic process.
A universe made for me? Physics, fine-tuning and life
A universe made for me? Physics, fine-tuning and life | Cosmos

Even scientists are saying there is design behind what we see.
Renowned physicist finds PROOF of God: Universe was created by DESIGN in huge 'matrix'

The complexity of DNA is beyond the ability of evolution to account for and has the hallmarks of design.
Evolution: A View from the 21st Century
By James A. ShapiroThere is a convincing (perhaps overwhelming) case for the role of basic engineering principles in genome evolution. We now have many clear examples of genome restructuring by natural genetic engineering functions. nonetheless the phrase natural genetic engineering has proven troublesome to many scientists because they believe it supports the Intelligent Design argument.

DNA codes and information: formal structures and relational causes. - PubMed - NCBI

Even the snowflake conforms to the same maths that is throughout the universe and life.
The Science of Snowflakes

Jcreigns · Jan 14, 2018

Evo. Falls apart because it isn't logicall and doesn't make sense like the grand canyon wasn't mqde in millions of years cause of the ciabibe uplift. If people wanna believe the univers created itself thats up to them. I just wan't alll the lies of it not taught in public
/government school.

Jcreigns · Jan 14, 2018

Which is pretty much all evidence to support it

doubtingmerle · Jan 14, 2018

Jcreigns said:
Evo. Falls apart because it isn't logicall and doesn't make sense like the grand canyon wasn't mqde in millions of years cause of the ciabibe uplift. If people wanna believe the univers created itself thats up to them. I just wan't alll the lies of it not taught in public
/government school.

Of course the rock layers of the grand canyon are millions of years old. After all we can measure the ages using radiometric dating.

And we find fossils of various ages in the rocks. How do you think all those fossils got down there?

Speedwell · Jan 14, 2018

Jcreigns said:
Evo. Falls apart because it isn't logicall and doesn't make sense like the grand canyon wasn't mqde in millions of years cause of the ciabibe uplift. If people wanna believe the univers created itself thats up to them. I just wan't alll the lies of it not taught in public
/government school.

And what would you teach instead? The creation doctrine of a minority Protestant sect?

xianghua · Jan 14, 2018

Kylie said:
We have sensors all over our skin that can detect certain kinds of light. As I said, skin can detect infra red light. Our skin feels it as heat.

fine. so how this kind of light detection evolved? we still need at least 2 -3 parts: a part that can detect light and a part that can translate it for the creature.

Speedwell · Jan 14, 2018

xianghua said:
...and a part that can translate it for the creature.

Which is called the "nervous system," already present in the creature.

But I still don't understand why you see requiring two or more mutations to a problem. The parallel evolution of related biological systems is a well-understood phenomenon and does not pose a problem for evolution.

(As has been explained to you on numerous occasions.)

xianghua · Jan 14, 2018

Speedwell said:
Which is called the "nervous system," already present in the creature.

so we dont need new mutations at all for hearing, smelling, vision etc? we can just say that they are a part of the nervous system and thats it.

Jcreigns · Jan 14, 2018

Well speed i wouldn't teach anything about origins in science class or evolution. Creation or evolution is philosophy not science. Ive watched alot of debates between creation scientists and evolution scientists abd the evo. Scientists always get slaughtered cause they bring only facts to back their claims

Jcreigns · Jan 14, 2018

Meant creation scientists only bring facts

Jcreigns · Jan 14, 2018

Yep pretty much xiang

Jcreigns · Jan 14, 2018

When im working on my car do i ask hey are they headlights mutated or designed. Theyre obviously designed but i dont ask that i just fix it

Jcreigns · Jan 14, 2018

Just need to know manufacturer is all

Jcreigns · Jan 14, 2018

But you can't manufacture most living creature body parts

doubtingmerle · Jan 14, 2018

Jcreigns said:
When im working on my car do i ask hey are they headlights mutated or designed. Theyre obviously designed but i dont ask that i just fix it

Do you ask what if the car had a baby? we get asked that all the time.

Go figure.

the self replicating watch argument

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