The Sacred Band

[Steezie]

So before I ask my question, a small history lesson.

The Sacred Band of Thebes was a batallion in the army of Thebes in the 4th century. The Sacred Band was made up of 150-200 gay couples who were also trained soldiers. The thought was that they would fight harder knowing that the person they loved was right next to them and would also fight harder if their lover was killed. The Sacred Band was a powerful military unit and was recorded to have wiped out an army numbering three times their size. When the unit was finally destroyed, it was destroyed because the army it was fighting as a part of routed but the Sacred Band stood and fought.

So my question is this, what would be wrong with using this strategy again in the modern day military? A unit of soldiers who fight alongside their lovers.

 

[BigBadWlf]

I am certain that there are many such examples in history and in modern warfare.

The objection I see communing form conservatives is the main reason such things are wiped from the pages of history: specifically such groups are at odds with the carefully fabricated stereotype created for gays and lesbians. It is difficult to advocate bigotry towards heroes

 

[StarCannon]

It is difficult to advocate bigotry towards heroes

That strikes a chord within me. LoL!

 

[gwenmead]

So my question is this, what would be wrong with using this strategy again in the modern day military?

Morally wrong? Nothing.

Given the current military's attitude towards homosexuality, however, I don't think it'd fly. Officially, at least. Humans being what we are, I can't help but wonder if some personnel do indeed fight alongside their lovers...

 

[ArchaicTruth]

BigBadWolf is indeed correct, homosexuality was often encouraged in pre-Christian medieval armies. Strategically speaking, having a butt buddy around increased moral, kept the soldiers a little less rowdy, and made them fight harder when their significant others where in danger.

 

[Autumnleaf]

The sacred band was a group of warriors. Please cite sources which confirm they were gay. The Marine and Army infantry sometimes live in big rooms called squad bays where they eat and shower close together. They would not take kindly to a gay guy among them if they found out about it. To suggest ancient soldiers were any different reeks of historical inaccuracy.

 

[ArchaicTruth]

The sacred band was a group of warriors. Please cite sources which confirm they were gay. The Marine and Army infantry sometimes live in big rooms called squad bays where they eat and shower close together. They would not take kindly to a gay guy among them if they found out about it. To suggest ancient soldiers were any different reeks of historical inaccuracy.

Hardly, have you ever taken a real western civilizations class?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece#In_the_military

 

[Autumnleaf]

Hardly, have you ever taken a real western civilizations class?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_ancient_Greece#In_the_military

I see. Until 1907 this talk of homosexuality had been censured but since then it has been brought to the world's attention that ancient affections between men were homosexual in nature. You got me there.

 

[KalithAlur]

I don't agree with composing a military of homosexual lovers any more than i'd want a military intentionally composed of straight folk lovers... you know, get all the husbands and wives whut don't happen to have children, or just whut volunteer, to go to war?

it's forcing people to suffer so you can win military victories.

but then, that's just what war is.

 

[BigBadWlf]

The sacred band was a group of warriors. Please cite sources which confirm they were gay. The Marine and Army infantry sometimes live in big rooms called squad bays where they eat and shower close together. They would not take kindly to a gay guy among them if they found out about it. To suggest ancient soldiers were any different reeks of historical inaccuracy.

And sixty years ago these same marines and soldiers would not have taken kindly to a black soldier sharing their unit, their home their showers either.

 

[Steezie]

The sacred band was a group of warriors. Please cite sources which confirm they were gay.

All the sources you want are here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacred_Band_of_Thebes

To suggest ancient soldiers were any different reeks of historical inaccuracy.

Actually it simply highlights your abysmal knowledge of history. Ancient societies didn't have the same attitude towards homosexuality that we do today, in fact many didn't even have a word to distinguish heterosexual and homosexual. For the ancient world, the Greek world especially, it was simply not an issue and to shower next to a gay man would have probably caused zero stress as it would be something they were used to.

 

[StarCannon]

And sixty years ago these same marines and soldiers would not have taken kindly to a black soldier sharing their unit, their home their showers either.

Progress, once lost, is hard to attain.

 

[Autumnleaf]

And sixty years ago these same marines and soldiers would not have taken kindly to a black soldier sharing their unit, their home their showers either.

Some still have a problem with this.

Multiculturalism can be a good thing. It can also undermine authority when units divide themselves along racial lines. I've seen favoritism happen in some units. I've seen a lot of it. I actually know a guy who got a base permit on a vehicle without a California clean exhaust paper based on such connections. I don't mind playing the game when I have to but the game shouldn't be rigged like that.

 

[GardenOfKadesh]

The sacred band was a group of warriors. Please cite sources which confirm they were gay. The Marine and Army infantry sometimes live in big rooms called squad bays where they eat and shower close together. They would not take kindly to a gay guy among them if they found out about it. To suggest ancient soldiers were any different reeks of historical inaccuracy.

Which means you've never studied Greek history. A good start to this process would be to look up the word paiderastia. Come on, I dare you.

Likewise, the concept of exclusively gay military units is not uncommon. Alexander's Companion Cavalry were known for their relationships and Japan had a paiderastia-esque concept called Shudo.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Which means you've never studied Greek history. A good start to this process would be to look up the word paiderastia. Come on, I dare you.

Likewise, the concept of exclusively gay military units is not uncommon. Alexander's Companion Cavalry were known for their relationships and Japan had a paiderastia-esque concept called Shudo.

I've already agreed this stuff came to light around 1907 per Wiki. Right about the time Communism made its world debut, world historians decided the ancient Greeks et al had homosexual armies. I guess after eons of repression and censorship its about time this historical fact came to light.

 

[GardenOfKadesh]

I've already agreed this stuff came to light around 1907 per Wiki. Right about the time Communism made its world debut, world historians decided the ancient Greeks et al had homosexual armies. I guess after eons of repression and censorship its about time this historical fact came to light.

That's almost funny, considering homosexuals frequently adorned pottery with clearly homosexual tendencies, wrote books about homosexuality and we in fact owe the word Lesbian on account of the Greek island of Lesbos (courtesy of the poet Sappho).

If you're wrong, than admit it without the distasteful sarcasm. Linking Communism to some sort of already well known historical "revelation" is like linking . . . Communism to fluoride.

 

[Steezie]

That's almost funny, considering homosexuals frequently adorned pottery with clearly homosexual tendencies, wrote books about homosexuality and we in fact owe the word Lesbian on account of the Greek island of Lesbos (courtesy of the poet Sappho).

If you're wrong, than admit it without the distasteful sarcasm. Linking Communism to some sort of already well known historical "revelation" is like linking . . . Communism to fluoride.

Leaf has some...interesting theories about world events

 

[Verv]

So before I ask my question, a small history lesson.

The Sacred Band of Thebes was a batallion in the army of Thebes in the 4th century. The Sacred Band was made up of 150-200 gay couples who were also trained soldiers. The thought was that they would fight harder knowing that the person they loved was right next to them and would also fight harder if their lover was killed. The Sacred Band was a powerful military unit and was recorded to have wiped out an army numbering three times their size. When the unit was finally destroyed, it was destroyed because the army it was fighting as a part of routed but the Sacred Band stood and fought.

So my question is this, what would be wrong with using this strategy again in the modern day military? A unit of soldiers who fight alongside their lovers.

It doesn't workt hat way. It is actually determined to not be beneficial in the military to have women in combat roles because the male figures there will concentrate more on defending them than accomplishing the mission. In reality, the mission always comes first and a wounded comrade second.

But drills have shown too much attention is paid to the opposite sex (let alone lovers) and thus on a modern battlefield where it is a thinking man's game as well as a fighting man, it would not work very well.

 

[GardenOfKadesh]

It doesn't workt hat way. It is actually determined to not be beneficial in the military to have women in combat roles because the male figures there will concentrate more on defending them than accomplishing the mission. In reality, the mission always comes first and a wounded comrade second.

That's a bold claim . . . I think you left out a certain chariot-riding British queen, a saint and the occasional female samurai. Hint hint: The first reference isn't to Elizabeth.

But drills have shown too much attention is paid to the opposite sex (let alone lovers) and thus on a modern battlefield where it is a thinking man's game as well as a fighting man, it would not work very well.

The battlefield doesn't involve thinking! Who told you this nonsense? You're average guy with a gun's not supposed to think, he aint paid to think. That's the job of the guy above him.

 

[Verv]

That's a bold claim . . . I think you left out a certain chariot-riding British queen, a saint and the occasional female samurai. Hint hint: The first reference isn't to Elizabeth.

Is that the Celt Boedica?

I am also unaware of any female Samurai. It seems to go against all of the ancient conception of a Japanese female... Well, there was the broad sense of Samurai families and conduct of Samurai women but this was not of the sword.

The battlefield doesn't involve thinking! Who told you this nonsense? You're average guy with a gun's not supposed to think, he aint paid to think. That's the job of the guy above him.

Well, locating the enemy, distinguishing him from innocent civilians counts. That is intelligence in action. Fighting requires one to think and to react constantly (much of the time it becomes second nature to assume certain positions or to return fire or echo commands).

In the day of the camera we basically cannot go in guns ablazing without going to trial.