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I knew you'd pounce on the translation.
I understand, it's hard when our presuppositions are challenged and a little effort is required. We may learn something along the way.
Well, so much for not getting "personal".
You and I have no authority to carry out such things, it is the courts and government that should do such things.
HUH!?!
It says no such thing. This is a response to what he has posed.
Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. (Galatians 4:8, KJV)
They were pagans who were servicing gods who are not gods. They were observing the days, months, times and years of the pagan religions. Much like Christianity today who is observing the calendar of the RCC.
What Pagan god was observing the Sabbath and the days of YHWH's calendar? None.
Then the Apostle asks:
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? (Galatians 4:9, KJV)
After he has shown them the way, why are they turning back to the weaker things that he delivered them from. Why are they going back to the Pagan ways that had them in bondage?
And he adds:
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. (Galatians 4:10-11, KJV)
It is the old way, the way that he has shown them was vainity, that they are turning back toward.
BTW, the Apostle wouldn't tell the Galatians that the Sabbath was bad, then keep it himself and tell the Colossians that they shouldn't let others judge them about.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17, KJV)
In fact, the Apostle tells the Colossians that the Sabbath days are a shadow of things to come. It is something that others have no understanding about and that they shouldn't let them judge them about such things. The Sabbath is something that we should do, and false teachers try to stop. That is the context of Colossians 2.
Colossians 2:16-17 - Blogs - LAD Forums
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Exodus 20:8, KJV)
You and I have no authority to carry out such things, it is the courts and government that should do such things.
HUH!?!
It says no such thing. This is a response to what he has posed.
Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. (Galatians 4:8, KJV)
They were pagans who were servicing gods who are not gods. They were observing the days, months, times and years of the pagan religions. Much like Christianity today who is observing the calendar of the RCC.
What Pagan god was observing the Sabbath and the days of YHWH's calendar? None.
Then the Apostle asks:
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? (Galatians 4:9, KJV)
After he has shown them the way, why are they turning back to the weaker things that he delivered them from. Why are they going back to the Pagan ways that had them in bondage?
And he adds:
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. (Galatians 4:10-11, KJV)
It is the old way, the way that he has shown them was vainity, that they are turning back toward.
BTW, the Apostle wouldn't tell the Galatians that the Sabbath was bad, then keep it himself and tell the Colossians that they shouldn't let others judge them about.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17, KJV)
In fact, the Apostle tells the Colossians that the Sabbath days are a shadow of things to come. It is something that others have no understanding about and that they shouldn't let them judge them about such things. The Sabbath is something that we should do, and false teachers try to stop. That is the context of Colossians 2.
Colossians 2:16-17 - Blogs - LAD Forums
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Exodus 20:8, KJV)
Wow!!! Thanks for pointing out how that translation mangles the Greek and the translators put their theology right into the translation. Interesting you would point to something like that.
Can you show me the highlighted part in the Greek. Thanks.
As I see it, it should read, "For these are a shadow of things to come and the body of Christ." Note there is no comma in the Greek and the fulfillment is the body of Christ. In other words, the shadow of what is to come, and the shadow that is in the Sabbath, is showing us the complete body of Messiah. A future event. Isn't that cool?
Also PR, have you notice that this is in a future tense? The Apostle hasn't claimed that they are things that have come to pass, past tense and thereby eliminating them. But are shadows of things to come, future. Even the mangled translation you refer to says that. These things are showing us the future role of the body of Messiah when it is complete and functioning in His future Kingdom.
Blessings.
You and I have no authority to carry out such things, it is the courts and government that should do such things.
HUH!?!
It says no such thing. This is a response to what he has posed.
Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. (Galatians 4:8, KJV)
They were pagans who were servicing gods who are not gods. They were observing the days, months, times and years of the pagan religions. Much like Christianity today who is observing the calendar of the RCC.
What Pagan god was observing the Sabbath and the days of YHWH's calendar? None.
Then the Apostle asks:
But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? (Galatians 4:9, KJV)
After he has shown them the way, why are they turning back to the weaker things that he delivered them from. Why are they going back to the Pagan ways that had them in bondage?
And he adds:
Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. (Galatians 4:10-11, KJV)
It is the old way, the way that he has shown them was vainity, that they are turning back toward.
BTW, the Apostle wouldn't tell the Galatians that the Sabbath was bad, then keep it himself and tell the Colossians that they shouldn't let others judge them about.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Colossians 2:16-17, KJV)
In fact, the Apostle tells the Colossians that the Sabbath days are a shadow of things to come. It is something that others have no understanding about and that they shouldn't let them judge them about such things. The Sabbath is something that we should do, and false teachers try to stop. That is the context of Colossians 2.
Colossians 2:16-17 - Blogs - LAD Forums
Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. (Exodus 20:8, KJV)
12 Brethren, I beg of you, become as I am [free from the bondage of Jewish ritualism and ordinances], for I also have become as you are [a Gentile]. You did me no wrong in the days when I first came to you; do not do it now].
Whoa!!! Hold on a minute F. I agree that we should look at context, but what you are doing is reading the above commentary as though it is in the Greek. It is not, nor does it suggest what your commentary (that's what the Amplified really is, not a translation per se') adds to the text. Here is a perfectly good translation of the Greek:
Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. (Galatians 4:12, KJV)
γινεσθε ως εγω οτι καγω ως υμεις αδελφοι δεομαι υμων ουδεν με ηδικησατε (Galatians 4:12, TR)
The idea of becoming free from the Jewish religion is no where implied in the verse. He is continuing his thoughts about the Galatians falling back into their Paganism and false religion. It has nothing to do with them trying to be "Jewish". He is telling them to be as he is, without Paganism and the false religion they once had. The warning and context is clear. He is telling the Galatians that they are hiers of YHWH through Messiah, and warning them to be careful and not fall back into the bondage they were once in, which has nothing at all with trying to be Jewish. They were never Jewish to begin with.
Secondly, the "Jewish rituals and ordinances" are not biblical, but extra-biblical teachings added to the Torah. These rituals and ordinances were the common practice among the Pharisees, which the Apostle claimed he once was. This "Oral Law" superceded and was held above the written word of YHWH, exactly against what YHWH had said in the Torah. But this idea isn't what the Apostle was addressing here in Galatians specifically, although he did leave the false religion of the Pharisees and was staying away from falling back into their error. He often calls this religion the religion of the Jews, which was and is not, the religion of scripture.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. (Galatians 4:6-12, KJV)
In fact F, these verses have nothing at all to do with Sabbath.
show me oral law in galatians. he quotes lev 18:5 in gal 3:12, and says the law came 430 years after Abraham in 3:17, were the pharisees around then? Nope! He talks about the curse of the law , the BOOK of the law, and the cross in chapter 3, and subsequent redemption, was that oral law redemption, the book of the law was oral there, huh?? No, the book was about THE LAW, unless u got text to prove oral law in galatians.Whoa!!! Hold on a minute F. I agree that we should look at context, but what you are doing is reading the above commentary as though it is in the Greek. It is not, nor does it suggest what your commentary (that's what the Amplified really is, not a translation per se') adds to the text. Here is a perfectly good translation of the Greek:
Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. (Galatians 4:12, KJV)
γινεσθε ως εγω οτι καγω ως υμεις αδελφοι δεομαι υμων ουδεν με ηδικησατε (Galatians 4:12, TR)
The idea of becoming free from the Jewish religion is no where implied in the verse. He is continuing his thoughts about the Galatians falling back into their Paganism and false religion. It has nothing to do with them trying to be "Jewish". He is telling them to be as he is, without Paganism and the false religion they once had. The warning and context is clear. He is telling the Galatians that they are hiers of YHWH through Messiah, and warning them to be careful and not fall back into the bondage they were once in, which has nothing at all with trying to be Jewish. They were never Jewish to begin with.
Secondly, the "Jewish rituals and ordinances" are not biblical, but extra-biblical teachings added to the Torah. These rituals and ordinances were the common practice among the Pharisees, which the Apostle claimed he once was. This "Oral Law"
superceded and was held above the written word of YHWH, exactly against what YHWH had said in the Torah. But this idea isn't what the Apostle was addressing here in Galatians specifically, although he did leave the false religion of the Pharisees and was staying away from falling back into their error. He often calls this religion the religion of the Jews, which was and is not, the religion of scripture.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. (Galatians 4:6-12, KJV)
In fact F, these verses have nothing at all to do with Sabbath.
show me oral law in galatians. he quotes lev 18:5 in gal 3:12, and says the law came 430 years after Abraham in 3:17, were the pharisees around then? Nope! He talks about the curse of the law and the cross in chapter 3, and subsequent redemption, was that oral law redemption?
You didn't read what I said. I agree, the context of Galatians 4 is not the oral law. It is about the Galatians falling back into the Pagan religion that they once held, serving gods that were not God. That is the context. You missed what was so clearly said, "they were never Jewish to begin with", so I am not arguing that they are trying to fall back into that religion.
Before you appeal to the outside context of Galatians 3, let's look at the context of Galatians 4:12 and the immediate text..., which I have already given you twice now. Reading a misunderstanding of Galatians 3 into misunderstanding of Galatians 4 is no help at all.
Secondly, I never said that the Apostle was arguing against the Oral Law in Galatians 4. The point was made that he was like them, and had left a false religion of the Pharisees. And he to was trying not to fall back into the trap of a false religion. That is why he is like them and they are like him. Read this carefully:
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. (Galatians 4:6-12, KJV)
This has nothing to do, at all, with them observing the Sabbath.
Before we address the misconception your reading into all of these out of context verses, let's talk about the subject at hand, Galatians 4.
The topic is the Sabbath, and these verses were used to say that the Sabbath was done away, or some such thing. What has these verses to do with the Sabbath? Nothing. What do they have to do with Judaism? Nothing. The Galatians were never Jews, they never kept the Sabbath. Where do these verse mention the Sabbath? NO WHERE.
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ. Howbeit then, when ye knew not God, ye did service unto them which by nature are no gods. But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain. Brethren, I beseech you, be as I am; for I am as ye are: ye have not injured me at all. (Galatians 4:6-12, KJV)
These verses have nothing at all to do with Sabbath.
those were calendar words, that would be sabby inclusive, seasons, months, days , years, calendar, sabby..
bro, why won't u just acknowledge, the were heading into jewish law, as per 4;21, and 5;3, we can save time here.
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