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The Rosary and Orthodoxy

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HandmaidenOfGod

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Glory to Jesus Christ!

I have a question for the board. I am aware that praying the rosary is a Roman Catholic tradition that developed about five hundred years after the schism, but I wanted to know if it was “sinful” for Orthodox Christians to pray the rosary.

The reason for my question is that a good friend of mine has given me a hand-made rosary that is absolutely beautiful, and I am wondering if it would be wrong for me to pray the rosary. If not, do you think it would be wrong to say the Jesus Prayer on the rosary?

I’ve read the below article, and I’ve sent an email to my priest (haven’t received a response yet,) but I wanted to get the board’s opinion on the matter. While I will ultimately follow the advice of my spiritual father in this matter, I was just wondering how all of you felt about this.

The Rosary and Orthodoxy

In XC,

Maureen
 

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I don't think there would be a problem with using it for the Jesus Prayer. I like the beauty of rosary beads. The icon/medal of the Theotokos and the crucifix at the end could be helpful. Of course I appreciate the signifigance of the wool and knots of our prayer ropes too.

M.
 
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Philip

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Xpycoctomos said:
This is where I get "crazy-liberal" on ya ;)

Wow, you're not even Antiochian.

But, of course, I would heed whatever advice your spiritual advisor gives you :)

This was going to be my suggestion. All disciplines should be done with the guidence of a spiritual father.
 
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HandmaidenOfGod

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Drum roll please...


The "official" response from my priest is:


The rosary could only be used in an Orthodox fashion if you say the Jesus Prayer with it. Hope this helps. I know of no church authorities that would approve of it's usage in the regular RC method.

Fr. James

So while I must admit, I'm a little dissapointed, I will follow my Spiritual Fathers advice, and use the Rosary for The Jesus Prayer. Why the dissapointment you ask? Well, from what I've read on the rosary, there just seems to be a lot to be gained from saying it. Ah well, I will heed the advice of my Spiritual Father, as he is wiser than I, and there is much to be gained in following his advice.

In XC,

Maureen
 
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Xpycoctomos

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ML52779 said:
Drum roll please...


The "official" response from my priest is:



So while I must admit, I'm a little dissapointed, I will follow my Spiritual Fathers advice, and use the Rosary for The Jesus Prayer. Why the dissapointment you ask? Well, from what I've read on the rosary, there just seems to be a lot to be gained from saying it. Ah well, I will heed the advice of my Spiritual Father, as he is wiser than I, and there is much to be gained in following his advice.

In XC,

Maureen

Good call Maureen. While our spiritual fathers may not be infallible in their discernment, it is much better for us to follow them somewhat unquestioningly because otherwise we are just, once again, leaning on our own experience, and this negates the whole purpose of having a spiritual father. The only time we should really question it is if it seems destructive to our faith and walk with Christ, in which case you pray aobut it and seek out the apiritual advice on how to approach this with another spiritual father. I'm glad you priest was able to give you such clear advice. Makes things a lot easier in the end!

John
 
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Xpycoctomos

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Rilian said:
Maureen, the Rosary in its current forms contains elements that are not Orthodox (particularly the glorious mysteries). I can see why your priest is giving the counsel he is.

Did you ask if you could use the prayer rules of St. Seraphim of Sarov or St. Dmitri of Rostov?

Good suggestion.
 
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rhyddid_rose

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To Life Immortal

Quote

Originally Posted by: Rilian

Maureen, the Rosary in its current forms contains elements that are not Orthodox (particularly the glorious mysteries). I can see why your priest is giving the counsel he is.

Did you ask if you could use the prayer rules of St. Seraphim of Sarov or St. Dmitri of Rostov?

Umm, what are the glorious mysteries and what are the prayer rules of St. Seraphim of SArov or St Dmitri of Rostov?


Girl with questions,


бабочка
 
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Rilian

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babocka, the mysteries I believe are cycles of reciting the decades based on the day of the week (and perhaps the time of the day) which focus on different aspects of the lives of Christ and the Theotokos. The glorious mysteries are a set of these reflections that contain beliefs we do not adhere to.

The prayer rules of St. Seraphim and St. Dmitri are in truth adaptations of the Rosary. They came about at a time of significant western influence in the churches of what is now Russia and Ukraine. They are completely Orthodox though. The prayer rule of the Mother of God of St. Seraphim of Sarov is in the link Maureen posted. The prayer rule of St. Dmitri of Rostov is called in the old Jordanville prayer book the "Tale of the Five Prayers". Here is the text taken out of that prayer book:

THE TALE OF THE FIVE PRAYERS

From the times of the Apostles, Christians of all ages, when entering upon a task, began it with prayer, and the end of it they also hallowed with prayerful thanksgiving to the Lord, in Whom we live and move and have our being. And let us do the same, beloved reader.
But not having the gift of effectual prayer, let us recall and commit to memory what once was offered to the Lord by the grace of the Holy Spirit out of the inspired heart of the great Russian man of prayer, our father among the Saints, Dimitri, Metropolitan of Rostov and Yaroslav.
I am sure that for you, as for me, in offering to your attention "The Tale of The Five Prayers" the work of the great Bishop, it will be both welcome and useful, especially in the view of the wonderful promises which it contains. So hear this tale, my beloved reader.
You will not blame me for offering you in this Tale something new - it is not mine, and not new, but only fundamentally and completely forgotten, forgive me that I have disturbed the dust of ages: but this dust is holy ...

***

One of the holy fathers, standing in prayer and being in ecstasy, heard the voice of our Lord Jesus Christ speaking to the Immaculate and Holy Mother of God, His Mother, saying to her: "Tell me, My Mother, which were the greatest of your sufferings, when you lived in the world, which you suffered for My sake?" The Immaculate One replied: "My Son and God, five times I have endured my greatest suffering for you: First, when I heard from the Prophet Simeon that you were to be killed; Second, when I looked for you in Jerusalem, and did not see you for three days; Third, when I heard that you were seized and bound by the Jews; Fourth, when I saw you on the Cross crucified between the robbers; Fifth, when I saw you placed in the Tomb." And the Lord said to her: "I tell you. My Mother, whoever reads every day each of your sufferings with My prayer, i.e. 'Our Father,' for the first suffering I will give the knowledge of his sins and sorrow for them; for the second, I will give the forgiveness of all his sins; for the third, I will restore to him the virtues lost through sin; for the fourth, I will refresh him at death with my Divine Body and Blood; for the fifth, I will appear to him Myself at his death, and receive his soul into eternal life. Amen."

***

After this vision of the Holy Father, the following prayers were added by St. Dimitri:

At the beginning of the five prayers:

"Glory to Thee, Christ my God, that Thou hast not destroyed me a sinner, with my sins, but even till now hast borne -with my sin."

Bow

Vouchsafe, O Lord, to keep me this day without sin. Grant, O Lord, that I may not anger Thee, my Creator, in thought, word or deed, but that all my actions, counsels and thoughts may be to the glory of Thy Holy Name."

Bow

"God be merciful to me, a sinner, throughout my whole life. In my passing and after death, forsake me not."

Bow

Falling low on the earth, say:

"Lord, Jesus Christ, Son of God, accept me, dead in mind and soul, accept me, a sinful prodigal, impure in soul and body. Take from me all shameless enmity and resistance, and turn not Thy Face from me, O Lord, nor say: I know not who thou art. But hear the voice of my prayer: save me, for Thou hast a wealth of compassion and desirest not the death of a sinner. I will never leave Thee nor depart from Thee, my Creator, till Thou hearest me and givest me forgiveness of all my sins, through the prayers of Thy Most Pure Mother, the intercession of the honourable Bodiless Powers of Heaven, of my holy and glorious Guardian Angel, of Thy Forerunner and Prophet, the Baptist John, of the God-speaking Apostles, of the holy and victorious martyrs, of our Reverend and God-fearing fathers, and all Thy Saints, have mercy and save me, a sinner."

Heavenly King, Comforter,...
Holy God, Holy Mighty,...
Our Father...

Virgin Mother of God, rejoice, Mary full of grace; the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, for thou hast borne the Saviour of our souls.

First Prayer

"O merciful Mother, Virgin Mary, I thy sinful and unprofitable servant, remembering thy suffering on hearing from the Prophet Simeon of the merciless murder of thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, offer thee this prayer and the Angelic Salutation. Accept it in honour and memory of thy suffering, and pray thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, to grant me the knowledge of my sins and sorrow for them."

Bow

Second Prayer

Our Father .. .
Virgin Mother ...

"O Divinely-blessed and Immaculate Maiden, Mother and Virgin, accept from me, thy sinful and unprofitable servant, this prayer and the Angelic Salutation, in honour and memory of thy suffering when thou didst lose thy Son our Lord Jesus Christ, in the Temple, and for three days didst not see Him. Pray and beg of Him the forgiveness and remission of all my sins, O only Blessed One."

Bow

Third Prayer

Our Father .. .
Virgin Mother ...

"O Mother of Light, most blessed Virgin Mother of God, accept from me, thy sinful and unprofitable servant, this prayer and the Angelic Salutation, in honour and memory of thy suffering on hearing that thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, had been seized and bound. Pray Him to restore to me the virtues lost through sin, that I may magnify thee, O Most Pure One, for ever."

Bow

Fourth Prayer

Our Father ...
Virgin Mother ...

"O Fountain of Mercy, Virgin Mother of God, accept from me, thy sinful and unprofitable servant, this prayer and the Angelic Salutation, in honour and memory of thy suffering when thou didst see thy GOD, our Lord Jesus Christ, on the Cross between the robbers. Pray Him, O Lady, to grant me the gift of His mercy in the hour of my death, and to refresh me with His Divine Body and Blood, that I may glorify thee, my Defender, for ever."

Bow

Fifth Prayer

Our Father .. .
Virgin Mother . ..

"O my Hope, Most Pure Virgin, Mother of God, accept from me, thy sinful and unprofitable servant, this prayer and the Angelic Salutation, in honour and memory of thy suffering when thou didst see thy Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, placed in the Tomb. Pray Him, O Lady, to appear to me in the hour of my death, and to receive my soul into eternal life. Amen."

Bow

The whole prayer book can be found here
 
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HandmaidenOfGod

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Rilian said:
Maureen, the Rosary in its current forms contains elements that are not Orthodox (particularly the glorious mysteries). I can see why your priest is giving the counsel he is.

Did you ask if you could use the prayer rules of St. Seraphim of Sarov or St. Dmitri of Rostov?

Just emailed him, will let you know what he says.

I was surprised he didn't mention the rule of St. Seraphim for two reasons;

a) I included the article in my email

b) St. Seraphim is his favorite saint.

We'll see what he says.

In XC,

Maureen
 
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ByzantineDixie

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Rilian

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Those are interesting links. Just a couple of notes on them. Dr. Alexander Roman, even though he writes on a site called "Ukrainian Orthodoxy", is in fact a Greek Catholic. The third link has "The 15 promises of Mary to Christians who recite the Rosary Given to St Dominic and Blessed Alan" which I think illustrate well why the devotion is not appropriate in Orthodoxy.
 
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HandmaidenOfGod

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Rilian said:
Those are interesting links. Just a couple of notes on them. Dr. Alexander Roman, even though he writes on a site called "Ukrainian Orthodoxy", is in fact a Greek Catholic. The third link has "The 15 promises of Mary to Christians who recite the Rosary Given to St Dominic and Blessed Alan" which I think illustrate well why the devotion is not appropriate in Orthodoxy.

A Greek Catholic writing as a Ukrainian Orthodox? Talk about Identity Crisis! lol
 
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Cary.Melvin

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babochka said:
Umm, what are the glorious mysteries?

gm1t.gif
- First Glorious Mystery - The Resurrection of Jesus

gm2t.gif
- Second Glorious Mystery - The Ascension of Jesus


gm3t.gif
- Third Glorious Mystery - The Descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost


gm4t.gif
- Fourth Glorious Mystery - The Assumption of Mary into Heaven


gm5t.gif
- Fifth Glorious Mystery - The Coronation of Mary as Queen of Heaven and Earth
 
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Akathist

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This subject came up in the early days of my catechumen phase. I had been attending Mass daily at an RC church before exploring Orthodoxy and had found great comfort in saying the Rosary. I had been protestant my whole life up to then so I was new to who Mary (Theotokos) is and to calling upon her intercessions. It was very helpful to me. At that time my Priest was especially concerned about my learning about Orthodoxy and the Traditions of the church (Capital “T”). He was concerned about my saying the rosary, particularly because some of the mysteries do not fit Orthodoxy theology.



When I mentioned St. Seraphim’s rule in an email he consented to my reading them. However, we discussed this later in my catechumen phase and he had not realized that at that time I was not saying my morning and evening prayers, or the Jesus Prayer.



Now I focus on these prayers first. However, I have been given permission to say the Rosary when helpful as long as I limit the mysteries to Orthodox theology.



Personally, I love the Rosary. I still find peace in praying it. I find conviction when I pray the Jesus Prayer. Sometimes conviction is more edifying. However, there are times when I need the loving arms of the Holy Mother around me to comfort and remind me that I am never alone.
 
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