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I would say that there was a moment in history when the Earth's rotation was just that. And faster before that.
The earth's rotation -- in my opinion -- before the Fall, was 24.00000000000000 hours.
Which is a sidereal day. Because a 24-hour day is the time between when the Sun is highest locally in the sky due to the spin of the Earth and the Earth is orbiting the Sun, the Earth has to rotate slightly more than 360 degrees for the Sun be at zenith again. On a planet with N solar days in a year, there are N+1 sidereal days in a year. For Earth N is 365.25 24-hour Solar days and N+1 is 366.25 23h56m04s sidereal days.Today, the earth's rotation is 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.
Not yet AV, Fall begins in two weeks.If I'm right, how would this be possible without the Fall being the culprit?
One mean solar day is still defined to be 24.00000000000 hours*. The average time from Solar zenith to Solar zenith.
Which is a sidereal day.
Because a 24-hour day is the time between when the Sun is highest locally in the sky due to the spin of the Earth and the Earth is orbiting the Sun, the Earth has to rotate slightly more than 360 degrees for the Sun be at zenith again.
On a planet with N solar days in a year, there are N+1 sidereal days in a year. For Earth N is 365.25 24-hour Solar days and N+1 is 366.25 23h56m04s sidereal days.
Not yet AV, Fall begins in two weeks.
*basically, the official day is 86400 seconds and the second is now defined by an atomic transition in rubidium.
No, you can measure it. No paper is required.Only on paper.
Only on paper.
Neat.
Neat.
Cute.
Only on paper.
No, you can measure it. No paper is required.
Could you explain exactly how the Fall has anything to do with any of this.Prior to the Fall, they were both 24.0000000000 hours.
After the Fall, they parted ways.
Could you explain exactly how the Fall has anything to do with any of this.
The orbits and revolutions. That's what I was replying to in #146.Any of what?
The OP, or variances in orbits and revolutions?
The orbits and revolutions. That's what I was replying to in #146.
Actually the true solar day is different every day.If you measure a true solar day against a mean solar day, you get two different numbers.
Because they can't be.And why aren't they both exactly 24.0000000000 hours?
Because of the Fall.
This is my point.
Prior to the Fall, they were both 24.0000000000 hours.
After the Fall, they parted ways.
Actually the true solar day is different every day.
Since the orbit is elliptical,
Only if you believe this "fall" changed the orbit and tilt of the Earth. Have you got a scriptural reference for that change?
The whole "exactly 24 hours in a day" is just humans setting our time keeping to the (mean) solar day with our obsessive use of the Babylonian 12/60 counting system. It is not "magic" or special.
I googled the doctrine Hamartology. Not my cup of tea. But that help in understanding you.Before I answer this, how familiar are you with basic Christian doctrine?
Generally the doctrine of Hamartology; specifically the Fall?
With my limited understanding of astrophysics, I don't believe it's possible for any celestial body to have a "perfect circular orbit". The Earth itself is in a helical motion as the sun pulls it through space. The same with the moon as it's pulled through space by the earth.Now we're getting somewhere.
What put the orbit of the earth into an elliptical orbit from a perfect circular orbit?
I am using scientific data to get to understanding of what is happening.You're appealing to science to argue yourself out of understanding, aren't you?
"dad" has been gone a long time, but not long enough for the laws of physic to change.The laws of nature were a little different back then -- (see dad's posts).
Why assume the Earth was ever in a perfect circular orbit?Now we're getting somewhere.
What put the orbit of the earth into an elliptical orbit from a perfect circular orbit?
The only thing "haunting me" is the ghost of Phil.I told myself, when you cracked that joke about the Fall being the autumn season, that your jesting was going to come back and haunt you.
I understand the orbital mechanics perfectly well.Right out of understanding.
Seriously. That is how the day got to be "exactly" 24*3600 seconds long. Units were defined so it would be that way. Earth units (SI) are based on the size of the Earth. The meter is 1/10,000,000 the of the distance between the pole and the equator. The second is 1/3600th of 1/24 of the mean solar day.Okay -- suit yourself.
To understand orbital mechanics? Hardly.Your science is creating a mental block that you can't get around.
And I thought the whole "Adam did one thing wrong so now all humanity must suffer." was a bit of an overreaction, this thing of yours makes that divine retribution look only mildly capricious.Question: Do you realize the EXTENT of the Fall, and how it affected the ENTIRE UNIVERSE?
Never heard of it.This means when Adam sinned, even Earendel was affected.
Heat death comes from an eternal expansion. Does you new theology include an eternal expansion of the Universe? Where can we find this in scripture?Specifically it started dying due to something called "heat death" -- (thermal equilibrium?).
HI have no idea. No context is provided. Language is archaic.FOR ONCE, combine theology and science together and interpret this passage for me:
Romans 8:22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
What is Paul saying here?
Look pretty meaningless to me, but most scripture is.Can you answer that?
I don't know what Earndel is either. This Adam lived thousands of years ago, so he is dead.In your opinion, does "the whole creation" apply to Earndel, as well as it does to Adam's spiritual condition?
When you do that all you have is theology. A thoroughly uninteresting state.(Remember: Science and Theology can -- and do -- walk hand in hand.)
I look at it from several angles. For one, breaks my heart to see children, or anyone for that matter, suffering from illness. And I do what I can to help. From another angle, Life is Life as God Created it. And quite honestly, I see the activity of God experiencing the suffering of the child. It's one of the ways in which God experiences things like compassion and empathy and service to those in need. So even in the mist of suffering, that's a beautiful sight to behold.
Yes, I absolutely do understand.Can you understand why some people might not want a God to be empathetic and compassionate towards them and others under such circumstances? Or even appreciate the very idea of a being allowing us to suffer so he can love us.
Yes, I absolutely do understand.
If memory serves, that’s Elrond’s father. He made an epic voyage to Valinor and instead of being executed for being the first mortal(ish) person to set foot in the land, because he came from a place of true intentions across the races of both men and elves, he was granted life and the ability to choose his race (he was half elf, half mortal). He chose elf, as did Eldrond. His other son, though, chose mortality and this was the first in the lineage that (after 40ish kings and some odds and ends) eventually gave us Aragon, the true King of Gondor, which bummed out Sean Bean and his dad (who was kind of the worst, actually).Never heard of it.
Oh...I completely agree with the objections. You have no argument from me at all.You understand? Do you just not agree with the objections?
Who are any of those people?If memory serves, that’s Elrond’s father. He made an epic voyage to Valinor and instead of being executed for being the first mortal(ish) person to set foot in the land, because he came from a place of true intentions across the races of both men and elves, he was granted life and the ability to choose his race (he was half elf, half mortal). He chose elf, as did Eldrond. His other son, though, chose mortality and this was the first in the lineage that (after 40ish kings and some odds and ends) eventually gave us Aragon, the true King of Gondor, which bummed out Sean Bean and his dad (who was kind of the worst, actually).
Anyway, Aragon ended up marrying Elrond’s daughter Arwen, which is kind of weird when you think about it, and she chose mortality.
It’s been a minute since I read it, but that’s the general swing of it I think. Condensed down several hundred pages, anyway. I’d need at least 5 three+ hour long movies to do the story real justice.
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