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Right. The atom is electrically neutral, but the atom is still *there*. The electrons and protons cancel each other's charge, but they don't negate each other's *existence*.Perhaps, but what about from an outside perspective? If we have an atom that has electrons with a negative charge and protons with a positive charge, they can be in balance, and the atom has an overall neutral charge. The atom behaves electrically neutrally.
Sorry AV, but this doesn't even make sense.
I can't see how modern day physics applies to an ancient cosmogony.
I think you missed my point.Right. The atom is electrically neutral, but the atom is still *there*. The electrons and protons cancel each other's charge, but they don't negate each other's *existence*.
An outside observer can still see that the atom is there.I think you missed my point.
To an outside observer, the atom has no overall charge.
L:ikewise, to an outside observer of our universe, there is zero energy.
I say that there is indeed no evidence of this creation, because it only happened on paper.It is Day One of the Creation Week and God creates Earth ex nihilo (from nothing) by speaking it into existence.
Heretofore the level of mass/energy in the physical universe is zero; since the physical universe didn't exist yet.
Afterwards, the level of mass/energy in the physical universe is now equal to the earth.
Here's my question:
What physical evidence would convince you this happened?
I submit there isn't any.
What say you?
I say that there is indeed no evidence of this creation, because it only happened on paper.
Where do you think I said it did?An outside observer can still see that the atom is there.
*My* point is that the atom....or the universe....having no electrical charge doesn't suggest anything ex nihilo.
Could you clarify for me what camp you're in, in case I'm misunderstanding?Where do you think I said it did?
I'm not in AV's camp here.
It says it in the little sidebar under my name (you may need to click the little down arrow to see it).Could you clarify for me what camp you're in, in case I'm misunderstanding?
HI. I believe you are right that ex nihilo creation--by definition--leaves no physical evidence, since matter, energy, and natural laws were created in the act (Hebrews 11:3). However, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. All the data should be considered. The fine-tuning of the universe (Collins 2009), the abrupt origin of life (Meyer 2009), and the moral law (Lewis 1952) all point to a transcendent cause. Your apparent demand for physical evidence presupposes naturalism, which can't even account for its own rational foundations (Plantinga 2011). The Christian worldview explains why physics works--not just how.It is Day One of the Creation Week and God creates Earth ex nihilo (from nothing) by speaking it into existence.
Heretofore the level of mass/energy in the physical universe is zero; since the physical universe didn't exist yet.
Afterwards, the level of mass/energy in the physical universe is now equal to the earth.
Here's my question:
What physical evidence would convince you this happened?
I submit there isn't any.
What say you?
HI. I believe you are right that ex nihilo creation--by definition--leaves no physical evidence, since matter, energy, and natural laws were created in the act (Hebrews 11:3).
However, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
All the data should be considered.
The fine-tuning of the universe (Collins 2009), the abrupt origin of life (Meyer 2009), and the moral law (Lewis 1952) all point to a transcendent cause.
Your apparent demand for physical evidence presupposes naturalism,
Anyone can write anything he wants on a piece of paper and claim it to be god's word. God doesn't seem very good at keeping track of who is speaking or publishing in his name.That paper that it "happened on" is part of a legal document in God's court.
It's call a Testament.
Anyone can write anything he wants on a piece of paper and claim it to be god's word.
God doesn't seem very good at keeping track of who is speaking or publishing in his name.
I say even Nihil non est nihil. There is energy and substance in God's will before manifesting as creation.It is Day One of the Creation Week and God creates Earth ex nihilo (from nothing) by speaking it into existence.
Heretofore the level of mass/energy in the physical universe is zero; since the physical universe didn't exist yet.
Afterwards, the level of mass/energy in the physical universe is now equal to the earth.
Here's my question:
What physical evidence would convince you this happened?
I submit there isn't any.
What say you?
I say even Nihil non est nihil. There is energy and substance in God's will before manifesting as creation.
We see the results all around us.Detectable energy?
We see the results all around us.
Are you saying that since I (we ) were not there before the earth (or universe or anything) was created, we do not know that even energy existed in God will?What you are seeing is well AFTER the Creation week.
You were not around when the level of mass/energy of the universe was only 5.97 x 10²⁴ (that is, the earth).
Are you saying that since I (we ) were not there before the earth (or universe or anything) was created, we do not know that even energy existed in God will?
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