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You'll see my response to this in post #180 above.
Yes! Jesus most certainly paid for our sins and the sins of the whole world.
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You'll see my response to this in post #180 above.Your presupposition here though does not address what Christ actually did. He either paid for sin or He didn't. If He didn't, we're all screwed!
Give me a short list of specific questions and I will do my best to answer them. Thanks.Oh I knew you were looking toward a different end point when you said all the creation will be saved. This viewpoint is universalism and needs to reject many foundational Christian principles to work,like some I mentioned-Hell,preaching,rejecting Christ etc
How does your view get round my questions about the Bible Steven.
More great comments/questions. Thanks.
That's what we would expect from a translation bias, correct?
The doctrinal bias will be well-supported.
No. What we need to understand is that the atonement applied to the whole world.
And those who receive it will not be judged or in need of restoration.
That restoration is not self-payment, because Jesus already paid the price.
1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
Romans 5:18
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Colossians 1:20
and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
1 Timothy 2:4
who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
1 John 2:2
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Give me a short list of specific questions and I will do my best to answer them. Thanks.
I think it would help to answer the questions I posed around Ephesians 2 in the previous post.
Why do you seem to avoid questions posed to you so often?You made a claim that Gods Grace does not vary.
Can you prove that from scripture?
"Which essentially leads to the question of "is Jesus a liar". If everyone is universally atoned for; then why are the passages that speak of eternal wrath in the Scripture to begin with?"
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Why do you seem to avoid questions posed to you so often?
The problem is that God's grace cannot vary, because if it does then it ceases to be grace. Grace cannot be contingent on some factor like being too depraved. There is no depravity too big for God.
Already gave a whole bunch of Scriptures on it in this thread. Do you want them again?
No matter which doctrinal position of the final judgment one chooses, the atonement still has to be received for one to be saved. For those that we call "the elect", this happens before physical death. (like those Christ preached to for three days before his resurrection) For all others, this happens after physical death. For those saved after physical death, they have to endure the wrath of God.Do you want an explanation of these passages; or are you now set in what you believe?
Because basically what you've done is taken arminian "universal atonement" to the extreme.
Which essentially leads to the question of "is Jesus a liar". If everyone is universally atoned for; then why are the passages that speak of eternal wrath in the Scripture to begin with?
Even if you claim they are "mistranslations" there'd be no reason to put them in the Scripture if everyone is atoned for.
And on top of this, is the legal question of what does atonement constitute?
If you believe Christ paid for every human beings sin; then He paid for all of them and there'd be no justification to send anyone to hell; regardless of what they did; believed or didn't believe.
So.... why would some endure a certain amount of time in hell when other's don't?
That's not internally consistent either.
I'm not claiming that anyone will be saved that does not believe.Why did Christ say this if all people will be saved regardless of whether they believe or not:
"And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature."
I'm not claiming that anyone will be saved that does not believe.
How many times have I told you that every knee will bow and every tongue confess Jesus Christ as Lord? This cannot be done except through the power of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Do you believe that those with the indwelling Holy Spirit are saved?
1 Corinthians 12:3
Therefore I want you to know that no one who is speaking by the Spirit of God says, “Jesus be cursed,” and no one can say, “Jesus is Lord,” except by the Holy Spirit.
Yes. God's ultimate plan is the restoration of all creation.So you're saying in the end all will believe and therefore will be saved that way?
Jesus warned about the fire because it is very unpleasant. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.No I don't believe everyone will be saved. If that be the case, why did Christ preach more on Hell then any other Biblical figure,was he just playing?
Why did he commission his believers to preach the Gospel to save the lost? That would be pointless if everyone is saved in the end.
Yes. God's ultimate plan is the restoration of all creation.
This cannot be accomplished if 90 percent (the narrow way theory) of all humanity is burning in the Lake of Fire with no hope of escape. Even believers with no works will escape through the flames. What does that tell you?
1 Corinthians 3:12-15
If anyone builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw, 13 their work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each person’s work. 14 If what has been built survives, the builder will receive a reward. 15 If it is burned up, the builder will suffer loss but yet will be saved—even though only as one escaping through the flames.
I already answered the question about why Christ warned about the fire. (hell is actually a the term for a Norse pagan concept of the afterlife)Even if you do believe all will be saved in the end the questions still remain: Why the great commission? Why did Christ preach on Hell?
I already answered the question about why Christ warned about the fire. (hell is actually a the term for a Norse pagan concept of the afterlife)
The Great Commission is to make disciples. Are you making disciples?
I still believe that everyone should exercise their free-will to choose to follow Jesus Christ and receive the gift of spiritual life.
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