Job 42:2-6, Job 42:10 He repented and prayed, I don't know what you mean about passing seasons?
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Job 42:2-6, Job 42:10 He repented and prayed, I don't know what you mean about passing seasons?Did he resolve his problem?
Or did he just have to wait until this season passed?
I agree with your pointing to peters letter. It is on this letter that Peter discusses sufferings and perseverance
There is no chaos to God. There is nothing within our lives that God's hand has not touched.From Job's perspective, God's reply illustrates the danger of anthropomorphizing God and using familiar ethical terms to capture God's nature. We can infer God's love and goodness from His gracious acts in behalf of Israel, but we can't take the next step and define God's ethical traits so precisely that His conduct becomes predictable. In that sense, the story illustrates God's statement: "As far as the heavens are above the earth, so are my thoughts higher than your thoughts, and my ways than your ways (Isaiah 55:7-8)."
The story contains 2 additional implications:
(1) The OT teaches that at creation God brought order out of chaos, but it never claims that God took total control of the forces of chaos. The story of Job illustrates the point that God does not micro-manage the universe. When the innocent are killed by natural disasters (earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, even sudden infant death syndrome, etc.), it cannot be assumed that God willed those catastrophes to happen. Job has no idea about the "bargain" with Satan, and God prohibits Satan from killing Job, but does not micro-manage the havoc wreaked by Satan. This is a metaphor for a universe that runs according to its own laws without regular inference from God to prevent unfair suffering.
(2) The Johannine hymn (John 1:1-18) identifies Jesus as the divine Logos, a term that means the rational self-expression of God as opposed to God in His unknowability.
Same with me. And same with Job who said 'though he slay me yet will I trust him'I often get tired of wondering why God does things. I end up so worn out that I just say God is control, not me, and if he kills me then he kills me, if he gives me life then he gives me life. Who am I to war against God? I hope in his righteousness, his mercy.
I love that scripture. There is a second part to it that I don't understand, but the first part is very agreeable. What else can we do? We must trust God in all things or we have nothing. All good things come from God.Same with me. And same with Job who said 'though he slay me yet will I trust him'
Job 1:9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for nought?
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
What does it mean to curse someone in the OT hebrew?
1288
01288 barak {baw-rak'}
Obviously Job sinned-otherwise Elihu would not have reprimanded him and Job would have had absolutely no basis to declare repentance.. However, Job's sin it wasn't the sin that Satan said Job would commit under severe testing-the cursing of God to his face.
a primitive root; TWOT - 285; v
AV - bless 302, salute 5, curse 4, blaspheme 2, blessing 2, praised 2,
kneel down 2, congratulate 1, kneel 1, make to kneel 1, misc 8; 330
1) to bless, kneel
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to kneel
1a2) to bless
1b) (Niphal) to be blessed, bless oneself
1c) (Piel) to bless
1d) (Pual) to be blessed, be adored
1e) (Hiphil) to cause to kneel
1f) (Hithpael) to bless oneself
2) (TWOT) to praise, salute, curse
Now, the tense of the verb "curse" in this verse is Piel:
1c) (Piel) to bless
And thus the meaning of the verb is to "bless".
Piel usually expresses an "intensive" or "intentional" action as well as it also implies a repeated action meaning it is usually done more than once. In this case someone will “bless” God more than once.
OT:1288
barak (baw-rak'); a primitive root; to kneel; by implication to bless God (as an act of adoration), and (vice-versa) man (as a benefit); also (by euphemism) to curse (God or the king, as treason):
Lexicon:
"It is properly used of persons, and is transferred to curses and impious words against God." This specific definition for the word in question is found in Job 1:5, 1:11 and Job 2:5.
Job 1:11 But put forth thine hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face.
Job 2:5 But put forth thine hand now, and touch his bone and his flesh, and he will curse thee to thy face.
So what Satan literally said was:
"he will speak impious words against you"
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This
im•pi•ous (im'pe-?s, im-pi'-) Pronunciation Key
adj.
1. Lacking reverence; not pious.
2. Lacking due respect or dutifulness: impious toward one's parents.
In today's terms it would mean Job spoke in disrespect to God, and about God.
Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Charging God foolishly would be equal to cursing/speaking disrespect and impiously toward or about God.
Eventually Job would committ these bad things and sin.
Job 1:5 And it was so, when the days of their feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings according to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.
As Job's sons did, so would Job eventually do when his tormenting was more than he could bare. Let's look at how things transpired:
Job 1:19 And, behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only am escaped alone to tell thee.
Job 1:20 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,
Job 1:21 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.
Job 1:22 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.
Job is holding up very well after some very horrible things! Yet, this does give us a slight hint about what might take place eventually within this story.
Job 2:9 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.
Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
Again, very terrible events take place and even his wife thinks he should curse God! But Job does not! Job has not “sinned with his lips”….yet.
Job 3:1 After this opened Job his mouth, and cursed his day.
Now we see that Job is having trouble dealing with what he has been through. He will continue through the rest of the chapter speaking very ill of his life and fortune.
After his friend tries to console him he begins again:
Job 6:2 Oh that my grief were throughly weighed, and my calamity laid in the balances together!
Job 6:3 For now it would be heavier than the sand of the sea: therefore my words are swallowed up.
Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.
Job charges God with symbolically attacking him with poisoned arrows, and unnamed terrors that God has at his disposal. Is this really what God does to those he loves and considers righteous? Is Job correct that God is doing this and is responsible for his misfortunes?
Job 6:5 Doth the wild ass bray when he hath grass? or loweth the ox over his fodder?
Job 6:6 Can that which is unsavoury be eaten without salt? or is there any taste in the white of an egg?
Job 6:7 The things that my soul refused to touch are as my sorrowful meat.
Job 6:8 Oh that I might have my request; and that God would grant me the thing that I long for!
Job 6:9 Even that it would please God to destroy me; that he would let loose his hand, and cut me off!
Job 6:10 Then should I yet have comfort; yea, I would harden myself in sorrow: let him not spare; for I have not concealed the words of the Holy One.
Job 6:11 What is my strength, that I should hope? and what is mine end, that I should prolong my life?
Job 6:12 Is my strength the strength of stones? or is my flesh of brass?
Job 6:13 Is not my help in me? and is wisdom driven quite from me?
Job 6:14 To him that is afflicted pity should be shewed from his friend; but he forsaketh the fear of the Almighty.
Job 6:15 My brethren have dealt deceitfully as a brook, and as the stream of brooks they pass away;
Job 6:16 Which are blackish by reason of the ice, and wherein the snow is hid:
Job 6:17 What time they wax warm, they vanish: when it is hot, they are consumed out of their place.
Job 6:18 The paths of their way are turned aside; they go to nothing, and perish.
Job 6:19 The troops of Tema looked, the companies of Sheba waited for them.
Job 6:20 They were confounded because they had hoped; they came thither, and were ashamed.
Job 6:21 For now ye are nothing; ye see my casting down, and are afraid.
Job 6:22 Did I say, Bring unto me? or, Give a reward for me of your substance?
Job 6:23 Or, Deliver me from the enemy's hand? or, Redeem me from the hand of the mighty?
Job 6:24 Teach me, and I will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
Little does Job know that he shall eventually be scolded and taught by God himself, and he would come to understand the errors of his tongue. This takes place near the end of the book for several chapters but is awhile yet in the future. Job continues:
Job 6:25 How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
Job 6:26 Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
Job 6:27 Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
Job 6:28 Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
Job 6:29 Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
Job 6:30 Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?
Pride is deceptive. It assures you that you are right, even when you are not. Job cannot yet see how his tongue is full of iniquity and untruth about God but he will be shown the truth.
Job speaks:
Job 7:11 Therefore I will not refrain my mouth; I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul.
Job is not going to be quiet about the injustice he feels God is forcing upon him! He will speak out openly and loudly!
Job 7:12 Am I a sea, or a whale, that thou settest a watch over me?
Job 7:13 When I say, My bed shall comfort me, my couch shall ease my complaint;
Job 7:14 Then thou scarest me with dreams, and terrifiest me through visions:
“When I go to bed I should be allowed a safe and pleasant time but, no, God is there to torture me in my sleep!”
Job 7:15 So that my soul chooseth strangling, and death rather than my life.
“I’d rather be strangled to death than live like this!”
Job 7:16 I loathe it; I would not live alway: let me alone; for my days are vanity.
Job 7:17 What is man, that thou shouldest magnify him? and that thou shouldest set thine heart upon him?
Job 7:18 And that thou shouldest visit him every morning, and try him every moment?
Job 7:19 How long wilt thou not depart from me, nor let me alone till I swallow down my spittle?
Job 7:20 I have sinned; what shall I do unto thee, O thou preserver of men? why hast thou set me as a mark against thee, so that I am a burden to myself?
"What makes you so concerned about us humans? Why do you test us from sunrise to sunset? Won't you look away just long enough for me to swallow? Why do you watch us so closely?"
Job later says:
Job 9:13 If God will not withdraw his anger, the proud helpers do stoop under him.
Job 9:14 How much less shall I answer him, and choose out my words to reason with him?
Job 9:15 Whom, though I were righteous, yet would I not answer, but I would make supplication to my judge.
Job 9:16 If I had called, and he had answered me; yet would I not believe that he had hearkened unto my voice.
Job 9:17 For he breaketh me with a tempest, and multiplieth my wounds without cause.
“If God came into court when I called him, he would not hear my case in fact he would strike me with a storm and increase my injuries for no reason at all!”
Job 9:18 He will not suffer me to take my breath, but filleth me with bitterness.
Job 9:19 If I speak of strength, lo, he is strong: and if of judgment, who shall set me a time to plead?
Job 9:20 If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me: if I say, I am perfect, it shall also prove me perverse.
Job 9:21 Though I were perfect, yet would I not know my soul: I would despise my life.
“Even if I were innocent, God would prove me wrong. I am not guilty, but I no longer care what happens to me.”
Job 9:22 This is one thing, therefore I said it, He destroyeth the perfect and the wicked.
“God destroys the innocent along with the guilty.”
Job 9:23 If the scourge slay suddenly, he will laugh at the trial of the innocent.
Job 9:24 The earth is given into the hand of the wicked: he covereth the faces of the judges thereof; if not, where, and who is he?
“When a good person dies a sudden death, God sits back and laughs.
And who else but God blindfolds the judges, then lets the wicked take over the earth?“
WOAH! Verse 23 is quite a statement by Job! That if a man should die accidentally while being punished, that God would laugh at the trial of an innocent man. This means that Job feels God is unjust and cruel!
Job 9:25 Now my days are swifter than a post: they flee away, they see no good.
Job 9:26 They are passed away as the swift ships: as the eagle that hasteth to the prey.
Job 9:27 If I say, I will forget my complaint, I will leave off my heaviness, and comfort myself:
Job 9:28 I am afraid of all my sorrows, I know that thou wilt not hold me innocent.
Job 9:29 If I be wicked, why then labour I in vain?
Job 9:30 If I wash myself with snow water, and make my hands never so clean;
Job 9:31 Yet shalt thou plunge me in the ditch, and mine own clothes shall abhor me.
“Even if I washed myself with the strongest soap, God would throw me into a pit of stinking slime, leaving me disgusting to my clothes. “
Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
Job 9:33 Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
Job 9:34 Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me:
Job 9:35 Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.
“Can someone snatch away the stick God carries to frighten me? Then I could speak up without fear of him, but for now, I cannot speak. “
Job 10:1 My soul is weary of my life; I will leave my complaint upon myself; I will speak in the bitterness of my soul.
Again, he repeats his statement in chapter 7. He will not be silent about how he feels about what he thinks God is doing to him.
Job 10:2 I will say unto God, Do not condemn me; shew me wherefore thou contendest with me.
Job 10:3 Is it good unto thee that thou shouldest oppress, that thou shouldest despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the counsel of the wicked?
“Why do you, God, take such delight in hating your children, and in blessing sinners?”
Job 10:4 Hast thou eyes of flesh? or seest thou as man seeth?
Job 10:5 Are thy days as the days of man? are thy years as man's days,
Job 10:6 That thou enquirest after mine iniquity, and searchest after my sin?
“Do you look at things the way we humans do? Is your life as short as ours? Is that why you are so quick to find fault with me?”
Ouch! Job is really digging himself a deep hole. Here he actually questions Gods right to judge man because God is not flesh and it’s implied that therefore God can’t understand what its like to live in the flesh. Yet, God can understand us, and could even before Christ was born flesh. God has the right to judge flesh man, and always has.
Job 10:7 Thou knowest that I am not wicked; and there is none that can deliver out of thine hand.
Job 10:8 Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet thou dost destroy me.
"You know I am innocent, but who can defend me against you? Will you now destroy someone you created?"
Job 10:9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?
Job 10:10 Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese?
Job 10:11 Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.
Job 10:12 Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit.
Job 10:13 And these things hast thou hid in thine heart: I know that this is with thee.
Job 10:14 If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.
Job 10:15 If I be wicked, woe unto me; and if I be righteous, yet will I not lift up my head. I am full of confusion; therefore see thou mine affliction;
“Guilty or innocent, I am condemned and ashamed because of my troubles.”
Job 10:16 For it increaseth. Thou huntest me as a fierce lion: and again thou shewest thyself marvellous upon me.
Job 10:17 Thou renewest thy witnesses against me, and increasest thine indignation upon me; changes and war are against me.
“No matter how hard I try, you keep hunting me down like a powerful lion. You never stop accusing me; you become furious and attack over and over again.”
Job 10:18 Wherefore then hast thou brought me forth out of the womb? Oh that I had given up the ghost, and no eye had seen me!
Job 10:19 I should have been as though I had not been; I should have been carried from the womb to the grave.
Job 10:20 Are not my days few? cease then, and let me alone, that I may take comfort a little,
Job 10:21 Before I go whence I shall not return, even to the land of darkness and the shadow of death;
Job 10:22 A land of darkness, as darkness itself; and of the shadow of death, without any order, and where the light is as darkness.
“Surely I will go to hell, a land of darkness and despair, after I die”
Next, his friend gives him some sound advice but Job dismisses it and says:
Job 12:1 And Job answered and said,
Job 12:2 No doubt but ye are the people, and wisdom shall die with you.
Job 12:3 But I have understanding as well as you; I am not inferior to you: yea, who knoweth not such things as these?
“You think you are so great, with all the answers. But I know as much as you do, and so does everyone else”
Job 13:1 Lo, mine eye hath seen all this, mine ear hath heard and understood it.
Job 13:2 What ye know, the same do I know also: I am not inferior unto you.
“I know and understand every bit of this. None of you are smarter than I am; there's nothing you know that I don't.”
Then Job addresses God:
Job 13:20 Only do not two things unto me: then will I not hide myself from thee.
Job 13:21 Withdraw thine hand far from me: and let not thy dread make me afraid.
Job 13:22 Then call thou, and I will answer: or let me speak, and answer thou me.
Job 13:23 How many are mine iniquities and sins? make me to know my transgression and my sin.
“I ask only two things of you, my God, and I will no longer hide from you. Stop punishing and terrifying me! Then speak, and I will reply; or else let me speak, and you reply. Please point out my sins, so I will know them.”
Job 13:24 Wherefore hidest thou thy face, and holdest me for thine enemy?
Job 13:25 Wilt thou break a leaf driven to and fro? and wilt thou pursue the dry stubble?
Job 13:26 For thou writest bitter things against me, and makest me to possess the iniquities of my youth.
“Why have you turned your back and count me your enemy? Do you really enjoy frightening a fallen leaf? Why do you accuse me of horrible crimes and make me pay for sins I did in my youth?”
Job 13:27 Thou puttest my feet also in the stocks, and lookest narrowly unto all my paths; thou settest a print upon the heels of my feet.
Job 13:28 And he, as a rotten thing, consumeth, as a garment that is moth eaten.
If only Job could have known that it was Satan, not God, that persecuted him…
Job continues his verbal assault upon God:
Job 14:1 Man that is born of a woman is of few days, and full of trouble.
Job 14:2 He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not.
Job 14:3 And dost thou open thine eyes upon such an one, and bringest me into judgment with thee?
“Life is short and sorrowful for every living soul. We are flowers that fade and shadows that vanish. And so, I ask you, God, why pick on me?”
Job 14:4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean? not one.
Job 14:5 Seeing his days are determined, the number of his months are with thee, thou hast appointed his bounds that he cannot pass;
Job 14:6 Turn from him, that he may rest, till he shall accomplish, as an hireling, his day.
Job 14:7 For there is hope of a tree, if it be cut down, that it will sprout again, and that the tender branch thereof will not cease.
Job 14:8 Though the root thereof wax old in the earth, and the stock thereof die in the ground;
Job 14:9 Yet through the scent of water it will bud, and bring forth boughs like a plant.
Job 14:10 But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he?
“Why don't you leave us alone and let us find some happiness while we toil and labor? When a tree is chopped down, there is always the hope that it will sprout again. Its roots and stump may rot, but at the touch of water, fresh twigs shoot up. Humans are different-- we die, and that's the end.”
Job 14:11 As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up:
Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep.
Job 14:13 O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me!
“Please hide me, God, deep in the ground-- and when you are angry no more, remember to rescue me.”
Job 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
Job 14:15 Thou shalt call, and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
Job 14:16 For now thou numberest my steps: dost thou not watch over my sin?
Job 14:17 My transgression is sealed up in a bag, and thou sewest up mine iniquity.
Job 14:18 And surely the mountain falling cometh to nought, and the rock is removed out of his place.
Job 14:19 The waters wear the stones: thou washest away the things which grow out of the dust of the earth; and thou destroyest the hope of man.
“In the world, mountains tumble, and rocks crumble; streams wear away stones and wash away soil. And you destroy our hopes!”
Job 19:6 Know now that God hath overthrown me, and hath compassed me with his net.
Job 19:7 Behold, I cry out of wrong, but I am not heard: I cry aloud, but there is no judgment.
Job 19:8 He hath fenced up my way that I cannot pass, and he hath set darkness in my paths.
Job 19:9 He hath stripped me of my glory, and taken the crown from my head.
Job 19:10 He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.
Job 19:11 He hath also kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies.
Job 19:12 His troops come together, and raise up their way against me, and encamp round about my tabernacle.
Job 19:13 He hath put my brethren far from me, and mine acquaintance are verily estranged from me.
Job 19:14 My kinsfolk have failed, and my familiar friends have forgotten me.
Job 19:15 They that dwell in mine house, and my maids, count me for a stranger: I am an alien in their sight.
Job 19:16 I called my servant, and he gave me no answer; I intreated him with my mouth.
Job 19:17 My breath is strange to my wife, though I intreated for the children's sake of mine own body.
Job 19:18 Yea, young children despised me; I arose, and they spake against me.
Job 19:19 All my inward friends abhorred me: and they whom I loved are turned against me.
Job 19:20 My bone cleaveth to my skin and to my flesh, and I am escaped with the skin of my teeth.
Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
Job 19:22 Why do ye persecute me as God, and are not satisfied with my flesh?
Job 19:23 Oh that my words were now written! oh that they were printed in a book!
Job 19:24 That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!
Here is quite a long rant against God and what Job believes God has done to him unjustly. Ironic how his last words would very much come to pass, being written in a book to his eventual shame and for a lesson to us.
Job 32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.
Job essentially did not feel he deserved what was happening to him, feeling himself to be too good of a man to have to suffer these things he felt were coming directly from God. God allowed these things, but it was satan that was behind them.
Job 34:35 Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.
Job 34:36 My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.
Job 34:37 For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.
Keep in mind this was spoken by Elihu, who was the only wise one to speak true wisdom to Job and his three friends. Elihu is the only one that God doesn’t speak against, because Elihu was speaking truth when the others were misguided and often confused.
0453 'Eliyhuw {el-ee-hoo'} or (fully) 'Eliyhuw' {el-ee-hoo'}
from 0410 and 01931;; n pr m
AV - Elihu 11; 11
Elihu = "He is my God"
1) the younger man who rebuked Job and his three friends
Job 34:35 Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.
Job 34:36 My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.
Job 34:37 For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.
Sounds like Job eventually did rebel against God, and spoke words against God. Does not God spend several chapters rebuking Job and showing Job how powerful and wise He (God) is? Surely there was a reason to rebuke Job as much and as long as God did.
Job 40:1 Moreover the LORD answered Job, and said,
Job 40:2 Shall he that contendeth with the Almighty instruct Him? he that reproveth God, let him answer it.
Job 40:7 Gird up thy loins now like a man: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 40:8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous?
Sounds like Job very much had done wrong, and greatly offended God. God challenges Job by asking who he is to reprove God and disannul His judgments! God asks Job if he has the right to condemn God and make himself righteous! Job has severely crossed a line and God really let Job have it! How humbling it would be to have God himself berate you for so long and so passionately!
Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,
Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.
Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.
Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.
Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.
Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.
Here Job repents of what he did.
Having read these scriptures I must conclude that Job did curse God and that satan did succeed in tempting Job to curse God. God did rebuke Job for it and Job did repent.
Does this mean satan defeated Job, or even God, and “won”? No. Satan was able to get Job to sin but he didn't really "win" per se’. He was correct that removing the hedge of protection around Job would result in his "cursing" God, ie: blaming him for what was happening and questioning his right to do so.
It’s a natural reaction. A righteous person expects God to be on their side and to protect them. When a person who knows they are righteous begins to suffer afflictions and hardships and loses everything in the literal sense then, as in the case of Job, it is only natural to suspect God as being the one who is not only failing to protect but even whom is responsible for the afflictions. What we have to learn, where Job failed, is that we have to remember that there is an evil being out there named Satan and he could be the one behind our misfortunes. We have to remember that we have NO RIGHT TO QUESTION God! We are nothing compared to God. Our sense of right and wrong and justice and what is fair is not vast enough compared to God’s. God works in mysterious ways and we have no choice but to accept that or do as Job did and rant and whine and accuse improperly.
In the end Job overcame satan through repentance and through Gods mercy. Being sinners, and being weak we too shall sin and fall short of Gods expectations but like Job we ought to repent when we are made aware of our wrongs, and God is faithful to forgive us being the loving Father He is.
Without understanding Job’s failure we cannot fully understand his triumph. With Job’s example, we hopefully will not repeat his mistakes.
Job was a very good, faithful, moral man...but I suspect he hadn't ever really been tested as satan accused. He was protected by God and lived a comfy life almost like within his own personal Eden. God eventually used satan as a dirty instrument to "lance" Job a few times to cause an internal "infection" and then watched to see how Job handled it. Good at first, but then Job started to be angry with God and complain, then at the end God confronts Job and Job repents. God can do "evil" to us if he feels it's needed. God can employ agents of evil ie: satan if he chooses to.
Job failed this basic test, but he succeeded the test-within-a-test because he ultimately repented of his words and was forgiven by God. We all will fail God's tests, all have....but the lesson is how it all ends, whether we do the right thing and humble ourselves before God. The entire book of Job wasn't the point, it was the very ending that was always what God was after....humble repentance VS. perfection. We aren't perfect. We are sinners. We need forgiveness.
Which is it?
Did job sin and blame GOD or didn't he?
GOD is in controlThis book is one of the most misunderstood in the entire Bible. Too many people quote Job's lack of knowledge as the truth about God. The often "He gives and He takes away" is what Job said, but that isn't true about God. When Adam transgressed and sinned against God, the entire universe became corrupted. Job constantly speaks out of ignorance even though God said Job was a good man (Job 1:8). Job's friends didn't know what they were talking about, but influenced him to the degree that he went from a state of simply being selfish to one of pure ignorance, as he moved to condemn God over what had taken place - even going as far as to call God unjust. Lack of knowledge of God is still prevalent in all churches today. For anyone to embrace that God is in control reveals lack of knowledge of the scriptures which are our authority - not the traditions of men or what the vast majority of churches believe.
I often get tired of wondering why God does things. I end up so worn out that I just say God is control, not me, and if he kills me then he kills me, if he gives me life then he gives me life. Who am I to war against God? I hope in his righteousness, his mercy.
HE knows our days Every hair is numbered.Same with me. And same with Job who said 'though he slay me yet will I trust him'
satan desires to sift you as wheat but I have prayed that your faith not fail Luke 22:31 - 32Speaks of afflictions being accomplished in the brethren also
1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
1 Peter 5:9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
1 Thes 3:3 That no man should be moved by these afflictions: for yourselves know that we are appointed thereunto.
1 Thes 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.
1 Thes 3:5 For this cause, when I could no longer forbear, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter have tempted you, and our labour be in vain.
This is very true but I love job's humanity BC if God stripped us of our jobs, kids( dead) and plagued us with illness we would like to think we'd praise God like David but more than likely we'd question like job...evennif we dont verbalize it...We'd question in our heart...As I recall, God did not answer any question about why Job suffered. He asked Job questions, which I think were meant to show Job that he was not able to understand God's ways.
One thing I see is that Job still was not as real and humble like he needed to become. He could justify himself, instead of simply trusting the LORD.
Proverbs 3:5-6.
But did that suffering help him?
Though he suffered, at the end he saw Jesus face-to-face. Somehow, possibly, his suffering brought him to that. But the suffering did not teach him what the LORD Himself was bringing out.
It was like this with Paul, too > 1 Corinthians 12:7-15 > Paul had his thorn in the flesh thing, and he wanted the Lord to take it away. So, he was not getting something out of his sufferings. But what helped Paul was to have a little talk with Jesus and heed what Jesus had to say.
In whatever we do or go through, then, I would say, we need how God has us understand and do things.
That does not address my questions in post 106?In the end, some of the "wise" will stumble so as to be made pure for the time of the end and will lead many to true and holy and perfect and unbiased righteousness which means leaving all things to GOD and not uprooting, not avenging, not living by the sword, but waiting and trusting in HIM who already said;
Not by power or by might but by MY SPIRIT
So easy to claim we know HIS SPIRIT when no one is against us
But when all things seem to be against us, remember what HE said/
In this world you will have trouble but take heart for I have overcome the world
And who is it who has overcome the world?
The answer will be found in 1 John 5
I'm so confused by your text....everyone here who is a christian believes or should believe what the bible says whole heartedly unless it is plainly stated to be a parable. I will be the first to say I have issues with trust and confidence in god..but I do know that the bible is very real and I'm sure God wants everything he placed in the book to resonate with us... The book of job is there for the billions of people who are probably suffering as job suffered or worse and are searching for an answer. While I may seem a bit cruel in your opinion to " transcend trauma" I believe its for our own good...because the latter is to just wallow , be defeated and replay the trauma over and over until you decide to take matters into your own hands...so in a way trust is needed BC it keeps you from going insane. Yes its a bitter pill to swallow but hopefully when we cross over our pain on earth will make sense. I'm in no way saying there's no need for empathy, empathy is especially important during times of tragedies and many Christians have been guilty of just spitting out scriptural one liners in an attempt to help but just create further devastation instead..and as you can see in the book of Job god was not pleases with his friends...so I dont think God wants us to dismiss others problems as well as our own, I think he just wants us to trust God so we will have less problems,less worry,less stress, and more of a peace of mind. Seems easy when written down but harder to put into practice..but its not impossible..i hope that helpsMiknik, you've littered an entire thread with dozens upon dozens of posts trying to shove your affinity to the notion that God is unreachably higher & mysterious while we are selfish beings who need to submit and learn to transcend trauma.
I think I speak for everyone here when I say that I am repulsed by this behavior, and I am moreover confused why you continue to desperately cling to something you yourself don't even believe.
You don't have to be right. The fact of the matter is that this story isn't anymore a depiction of reality than the morals in Little Red riding hood. Trying to force us into believing this is truly a divine incident is ridiculous, especially considering the Leviathan is a dragon which we know does not exist although this "God" character gave pages of detailed description about it.
If we are to take any positive lesson from such a famous book, it is to pull together and quit assuming that misfortunate is always deserved, and that trauma & grief must be comforted and healed together rather than telling someone to "deal with it because God's logic is higher than yours".
You are sounding precisely like the people in this story who accused Job, and moreover God did not rebuke Job as a lesson for you to now run around pretending to be God. Even if this story was a perfect reality, you do not go around telling people "God's logic is higher than yours so give glory!"
First and foremost, God didn't even rebuke Job's trauma until he was ready to heal it. Unless you're in the business of providing millions of dollars to victims, I am unsure why you are running around preaching God's response as a lesson to people. In the story God was able to amusingly confront Job's trauma purely because God had at that moment the power and request from Job to do this.
You are not God, and you are not our source of deliverance, so preaching about God's response to Job's trauma "as a lesson" is absurd.
Again, when you have the means & power and will to cure a person of their suffering and losses, then you can begin commenting on how they should feel & respond in their distress. Until then what you are actually offering is very dangerous spiritually.
Try addressing my questions in post 106 and we can go from there.The interesting thing is that Job seems to accept God's whirlwind speech at the end of the book as being a sufficient answer. It's possible that God revealed some sort of information to Job that we're not privy to, possibly information that cannot be expressed in words.
Very true..i think they're talking about common grace god bestows to believers or people in general period; food,clothing,health,safety...the very basic.He forewarned us that in this world we would have trouble but to take heart for HE had overcome the world
Stephen did not accuse GOD
Neither did Job
YES! this is it...i totally agree with you..there are so many fair weather people well Christians that think they can withstand anything because they have everything they wanted: Nice job,house, health , healthy children..but I dont think any man today could be tested in the exact same way job was and persevere...not in 2016... Were too into ourselves. But your quote was so spot on.I see prophecy and foreshadowing of what is going to happen to all men when HE who holds all things back is taken out of the way
I see the story of JOB as prophecy and a picture of what will happen in the last days when God removes "HIS HEDGE"
And the type of man that we are to be is exactly as Job
↑
I was in agreement on the first page about the hedge..
..Sorry. I thought you werent
Job had protection removed from him so that satan could test him. The pattern now is to abide in Him. As Jesus had to stay under the protection of the word of God in dealing with satan so do believers have to be under the umbrella of abiding. There was no pattern at the time of Job, but the raw edge of what it meant was told in that book, presumably the first book written.
np... Job was dwelling in his own righteousness that is of the tree of good and evil. For him to be brought into the tree of life he had to achieve God's righteousness. He was stripped of everything, just as we're stripped of the old man. Being that was the OT times presumably he was clothed in God with the power of priesthood to sacrifice for his friends (who were every form of legalism) There was no indwelling or abiding at that time
Perhaps the whirlwind was the breath w/o the fire
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