The Reality and Morality of Time Travel Communication with People of the Future

[StevenMerten]

I want to discuss peoples feelings on the morality of time travel and communication with future generations of people, to, and possibly beyond, doomsday. Science is making it pretty clear that this will become totally feasible in the next couple hundred years.

Einstein's Theory of Relativity clearly shows us that the faster a space ship goes, the farther into the future the people on board go. Entangled particles communicate with one another, instantaneously, at any distance and thus through any time dilation. Entangled particles already, naturally, work on a bit format. Thus hooking them up to stream, instantaneous, HD, video communication, from anywhere speed of light travelers go, is going to be a given. We would only have to get the other end of an Entangled Particle Communicator a couple hundred years into the future and then let their more powerful star ships carry it further into the future, and we will be able to communicate with all generations of future people up to the doomsday era, and possibly beyond. If speed of light star ship travelers do get past doomsday, we could look billions of years into the future.

What I really would like to talk about on this thread is what you think the moral issues will be, if and when, we have the ability to communicate with all future generations of people on earth. We can most certainly talk about all the science behind streaming HD video communication from all future generations, but it is the morality of doing so that I am mainly interested in.

This thread is for everyone, not just the science guys. Please post your comments on the morality of communicating with all future generations to, and possibly beyond, doomsday.

Also, what about the concept of using speed of light star ships to move overpopulation to 100,000 years, or a million years, into earth's future. Once we hear back from pioneers, or drones, carrying EPC communicators. And what about doomsday? Can we travel to or populate the earth a million years beyond doomsday?

Time dilation and space flight

Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home. Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future. A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.

Time dilation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Basil the Great]

I am a guy that is open to believing in the possibility of almost anything, including life on other planets, the reality of ghosts, Bigfoot, etc. However, I seriously doubt that God would permit time travel. I do not say it is absolutely impossible, but I tend to think that such is the case. Having said that, let's assume for the sake of argument that time travel does become a reality at some point in the future. Would it be moral to communicate with people from the future? Well, if God in his wisdom permits time travel, then I guess one could make the case that such might be moral. However, I am uncertain. This is a very deep subject...

 

[StevenMerten]

I am a guy that is open to believing in the possibility of almost anything, including life on other planets, the reality of ghosts, Bigfoot, etc. However, I seriously doubt that God would permit time travel. I do not say it is absolutely impossible, but I tend to think that such is the case. Having said that, let's assume for the sake of argument that time travel does become a reality at some point in the future. Would it be moral to communicate with people from the future? Well, if God in his wisdom permits time travel, then I guess one could make the case that such might be moral. However, I am uncertain. This is a very deep subject...

Hello Basil the Great,

Welcome!

Let me say first that science sees no way to Time Travel into the past. This can be proven by the fact that no one has ever visited us from the future.

How Time Travel into the future works is through Einstein's Theory of Relativity aka Time Dilation. Time Dilation has been proven many times through experimentation using atomic clocks. Our astronauts experience a slower elapsing time, due to time dilation, than people on earth, due to their velocity. According to Einstein's calculations, the closer you get to the speed of light, the more time slows down. If you can get to the speed of light, you can travel billions of light years in seconds. However, physical time is also a variable in the time dilation equation. You have traveled billions of light years in distance but it is now billions of years later, from your original physical time on earth.

Do you understand, or at least accept, this as a proven reality, from Einsteins Theory of Relativity?

This is how time travel into the future works. There is no known way to time travel into the past.

Time dilation and space flight

Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home. Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future. A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.

Time dilation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[WarriorAngel]

I so wish i could time travel and go back to my younger self and say 'Lookie - this is how it is...'

Lessons learned have been way hard.

 

[InnerPhyre]

This would not result in a 2 way communication. You could perhaps send messages into the future this way, but it would be impossible to get messages back, because going back in time is impossible. So I don't see this as being an different from recording a video that people can watch later or burying a time capsule to be dug up in the future.

 

[StevenMerten]

This would not result in a 2 way communication. You could perhaps send messages into the future this way, but it would be impossible to get messages back, because going back in time is impossible. So I don't see this as being an different from recording a video that people can watch later or burying a time capsule to be dug up in the future.

Hello InnerPhyre,

Using Time Dilation to get to the future is only half of the equation to building a time machine.

Have you heard of Quantum Entanglement? Science is presently working on building a Quantum Entanglement computer. When, and if, they can accomplish this, it will be fast. A calculation that would take today's super computers ten thousand years to calculate, will take a Quantum Entanglement computer one tenth of a second to calculate. If you put half of the Quantum Entanglement computer on the other side of the universe, this would not slow it down one nanosecond. Bit changes happen instantaneously, at any distance, in a Quantum Entanglement computer.

Science has also been using Quantum Entanglement to build a teleportation device. They claim to have successfully teleported a photon over a 100 Kilometer distance.

Entangled electrons interact with one another in wave form. They cycle in unison with one another. When one spins clockwise the other is spinning counter clockwise. No matter how far you separate the two entangled particles, they are still in unison with one another, like synchronized watches.

It seems to me, that if you have your one teleportation device on earth, and fire up the light speed star ship to carry the other Entangled particle teleportation device fourteen billion light years away, thus billions of years into the future, the entangled particles are still synchronized to one another like synchronized watches. So you land your star-ship and teleport yourself back to earth. You arrive on earth only the number of days later, equivalent to the number of days it took you to travel the billions of years into the future. Now you have two star gates crossing space and time.

Physical time is a variable and not the anchor most people see it as. Physical time varies depending on velocity, gravitation and probably a number of other things. Entangled Particles, on the other hand, can literally count the number of cycles their partner, entangled, particle has gone through, simply by counting the number of cycles it has gone through. They are entangled, even if separated by billions of miles. Entangled particles are like synchronized watches.

Lets put teleportation aside though and just focus on basic communication between two Entangled Particle devises. You put you HD camera on the front of your light speed star ship. The monitor stays on earth. You have Entangled Particles instantaneously transferring the video taken by your camera, at light speed, onto your monitor back on earth. The Entangled Particles are synchronized and in unison no matter what time dilation you encounter. The people back on earth are watching as you cruse past galaxies. You land your starship back on earth. Only now due to time dilation, it is 500 years into the future. Through your Entangled Particle devise, you send out a radio broadcast to the future people of earth asking them to take your Entangled Particle Communicator to their scientists. On board your star ship are particles entangled with your particles back on earth. You ask them how to build our half of the star gate.

Scientists have yet to figure out just how to build an Entangled Particle Communicator. The problem is that every time you look at, or measure an entangled particle, it destroys the entanglement. One of those weird things about the quantum world. I say, if they are building Quantum Entanglement computers and teleportation devices, without looking at or measuring the state of entangled particles, eventually they will be able to send a simple 'Hi', using entangled particles.

I am not a physicist. What I have stated above is, of course, theory based on what facts and concepts picked up from reading about Quantum Entanglement and Time Dilation. What I feel is that we are not that far away from having the capability to communicate with people from the future, if not teleport to the future. We can discuss the details and limitations to using Entangled Particles to build a time machine in unison with time dilation. This is not the main focus for posting the thread.

What I would really like to discuss is the morality of gaining the ability to communicate with all generations into the future. Weather you believe science can accomplish this or not, what do basic Christians think of gaining the ability to communicate with future people of earth? Is it moral? Will God disallow it? Can we cross the line of doomsday in Time Dilation, Time Travel into the future?

What do you think?

 

[WarriorAngel]

If i could go back - could i stay in the younger me? LOL

 

[Needing_Grace]

If i could go back - could i stay in the younger me? LOL

Only if you're Sam Beckett and kept just right

Sent from my iPhone using CF

 

[WarriorAngel]

Only if you're Sam Beckett and kept just right

Sent from my iPhone using CF

 

[New Legacy]

I want to discuss peoples feelings on the morality of time travel and communication with future generations of people, to, and possibly beyond, doomsday. Science is making it pretty clear that this will become totally feasible in the next couple hundred years.

Einstein's Theory of Relativity clearly shows us that the faster a space ship goes, the farther into the future the people on board go. Entangled particles communicate with one another, instantaneously, at any distance and thus through any time dilation. Entangled particles already, naturally, work on a bit format. Thus hooking them up to stream, instantaneous, HD, video communication, from anywhere speed of light travelers go, is going to be a given. We would only have to get the other end of an Entangled Particle Communicator a couple hundred years into the future and then let their more powerful star ships carry it further into the future, and we will be able to communicate with all generations of future people up to the doomsday era, and possibly beyond. If speed of light star ship travelers do get past doomsday, we could look billions of years into the future.

What I really would like to talk about on this thread is what you think the moral issues will be, if and when, we have the ability to communicate with all future generations of people on earth. We can most certainly talk about all the science behind streaming HD video communication from all future generations, but it is the morality of doing so that I am mainly interested in.

This thread is for everyone, not just the science guys. Please post your comments on the morality of communicating with all future generations to, and possibly beyond, doomsday.

Also, what about the concept of using speed of light star ships to move overpopulation to 100,000 years, or a million years, into earth's future. Once we hear back from pioneers, or drones, carrying EPC communicators. And what about doomsday? Can we travel to or populate the earth a million years beyond doomsday?

We already do this now to very small degrees outside of Earth. Astronauts and space equipment returns to a very slightly future Earth.

We can never look into the future, or go into the future. We are simply moving at a rate of time faster or slower than others.

If you traveled to another part of the universe, you would have no knowledge of the past and no way to communicate with the past. In other words, if you traveled 100,001 years into the future in one year, you could only receive images and radio signals from Earth that were 100,000 years old.

Even if you had the ability to instantly communicate with Earth, you would be communicating with an Earth 100,000 years into the future.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Didnt Einstein send a ship full of men into time travel and they came back insane?

 

[New Legacy]

Didnt Einstein send a ship full of men into time travel and they came back insane?

On the twilight zone perhaps.

Einstein did not believe that time travel was possible.

 

[WarriorAngel]

Twin paradox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


In physics, the twin paradox is a thought experiment in special relativity involving identical twins, one of whom makes a journey into space in a high-speed rocket and returns home to find that the twin who remained on Earth has aged more. This result appears puzzling because each twin sees the other twin as traveling, and so, according to an incorrect naive application of time dilation, each should paradoxically find the other to have aged more slowly. However, this scenario can be resolved within the standard framework of special relativity: Acceleration is not relative, unlike position and velocity, and one twin is accelerated more than the other. Therefore the Twin paradox is not a paradox in the sense of a logical contradiction.
Starting with Paul Langevin in 1911, there have been numerous explanations of this paradox, many based upon there being no contradiction because there is no symmetry—only one twin has undergone acceleration and deceleration, thus differentiating the two cases. Max von Laue argued in 1913 that since the traveling twin must be in two separate inertial frames, one on the way out and another on the way back, this frame switch is the reason for the aging difference, not the acceleration per se.[1] Explanations put forth by Albert Einstein and Max Born invoked gravitational time dilation to explain the aging as a direct effect of acceleration.[2]
The twin paradox has been verified experimentally by precise measurements of atomic clocks flown in aircraft and satellites. For example, gravitational time dilation and special relativity together have been used to explain the Hafele–Keating experiment.[A 1][A 2] It was also confirmed in particle accelerators by measuring time dilation of circulating particle beams.[A 3]

In his famous work on special relativity in 1905, Albert Einstein predicted that when two clocks were brought together and synchronized, and then one was moved away and brought back, the clock which had undergone the traveling would be found to be lagging behind the clock which had stayed put.[A 4] Einstein considered this to be a natural consequence of special relativity, not a paradox as some suggested, and in 1911, he restated and elaborated on this result as printed below, (with physicist Robert Resnick's comments following Einstein's):[A 5][3]

"If we placed a living organism in a box ... one could arrange that the organism, after any arbitrary lengthy flight, could be returned to its original spot in a scarcely altered condition, while corresponding organisms which had remained in their original positions had already long since given way to new generations. For the moving organism, the lengthy time of the journey was a mere instant, provided the motion took place with approximately the speed of light."
If the stationary organism is a man and the traveling one is his twin, then the traveler returns home to find his twin brother much aged compared to himself. The paradox centers around the contention that, in relativity, either twin could regard the other as the traveler, in which case each should find the other younger—a logical contradiction. This contention assumes that the twins' situations are symmetrical and interchangeable, an assumption that is not correct. Furthermore, the accessible experiments have been done and support Einstein's prediction.

...

 

[StevenMerten]

So, I take it, most people posting here do agree that time travel into the future is possible, using Time Dilation?

If anyone does not understand the use of Time Dilation, to move one person farther into the future than another, please ask away and we can discuss it. This is kind of high tech science. There is nothing to be ashamed about in not having been aware of it. It is Einstein's big 'Theory of Relativity'. Published in 1907. At slower increased velocity, you only move a little bit into the future. At speeds closer to the speed of light, you move into the future by even billions of years. Of course it takes a great deal of thrust to get close to the speed of light.

Time dilation and space flight

Time dilation would make it possible for passengers in a fast-moving vehicle to travel further into the future while aging very little, in that their great speed slows down the rate of passage of on-board time. That is, the ship's clock (and according to relativity, any human traveling with it) shows less elapsed time than the clocks of observers on earth. For sufficiently high speeds the effect is dramatic. For example, one year of travel might correspond to ten years at home. Indeed, a constant 1 g acceleration would permit humans to travel through the entire known Universe in one human lifetime. The space travelers could return to Earth billions of years in the future. A scenario based on this idea was presented in the novel Planet of the Apes by Pierre Boulle.

Time dilation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ebia]

So, I take it, most people posting here do agree that time travel into the future is possible, using Time Dilation?

You can get to the future just by sitting on the sofa and waiting, but most people wouldn't call that time travel.

 

[StevenMerten]

The Second Part of a Time Machine and/or Inter Time Communication with people of the future.

Physical Time is not the anchor most people believe it to be. Big Bang scientists describe time, space, matter and energy all flowing out from the Big Bang. Some scientists see space and time as fabric that can be folded, bent or curved. Some scientists think that the universe will collapse and time will run backward.

We have just talked about how, traveling at the speed of light, you can travel billions of light years in days. Only now you are billions of years into the future. Then we have Entangled Particles that interact with one another even from opposite ends of the universe. This is three different ways physical time, which is a variable, contradict our vision of time as something solid.

Entangled Particles in the Quantum world (atoms) do very weird and strange things. In the Quantum world, things are fuzzy and nonuniform, until man looks at them. When man is looking at them they then behave in perfect spin and in an orderly way. This cause Einstein to state, 'I'd like to think the moon was there even when I wasn't looking at it'. It is kind of like the Quantum world is doing all these crazy, back stage things, and then when the curtain goes up, and man is looking at them, they are in perfect unison with one another, and the whole world, and universe, now are locked into concrete science.

Quantum Entanglement is of extreme interest, because, if you separate them, even billions of miles, they are still communicating and acting in total unison with their partner, spin, polarity and the like. And when ever man looks at one, the other partner will be opposite. If one is say, red, the other will always be blue. The trick is that once man looks at what color one is the other one, billions of miles away, knows that its partner has been observed and the entanglement is ruined. This is what is holding up science from really using entangled particles to do big world things, like communication. It kind of sounds like God is holding things up on man using entangled particles for communication and other things. Remember, we are looking at God's building blocks of the construction of the universe.

So, if you separate entangled particles, and leave one on earth, while you transport the other on your speed of light star ship, does the one on the star ship stop spinning to account for time dilation? Has science ever even seen an electron not spinning? Is the entangled particle on earth spinning out of control, to compensate for time dilation? I think that entangled particles are not even effected by time dilation. I think that the two are like synchronized watches superimposed on one another. They are oscillating their spin, polarity and the like in perfect unison. The number of cycles on one would always equal the number of cycles on the other.

So, if entangled particles are running on their own clock, and not on time dilation clocks, we have direct instant communication, at least in the quantum world, from earth to where ever your, speed of light star ship, takes the other entangled particle, even billions of years into a, time dilated, future. Then you would have communication, at least at the quantum level, between eras billions of years separated. If science does find a way to link quantum communication of entangled particles with big world communication, not only would you be able to talk/HD video, from one end of the universe to the other instantly, but also communicate across time itself.

What do you think?

Quantum Entanglement​

Quantum entanglement is a physical phenomenon that occurs when pairs or groups of particles are generated or interact in ways such that the quantum state of each particle cannot be described independently – instead, a quantum state may be given for the system as a whole.

Measurements of physical properties such as position, momentum, spin, polarization, etc. performed on entangled particles are found to be appropriately correlated. For example, if a pair of particles is generated in such a way that their total spin is known to be zero, and one particle is found to have clockwise spin on a certain axis, then the spin of the other particle, measured on the same axis, will be found to be counterclockwise. Because of the nature of quantum measurement, however, this behavior gives rise to effects that can appear paradoxical: any measurement of a property of a particle can be seen as acting on that particle (e.g. by collapsing a number of superimposed states); and in the case of entangled particles, such action must be on the entangled system as a whole. It thus appears that one particle of an entangled pair "knows" what measurement has been performed on the other, and with what outcome, even though there is no known means for such information to be communicated between the particles, which at the time of measurement may be separated by arbitrarily large distances.


Quantum entanglement is an area of extremely active research by the physics community, and its effects have been demonstrated experimentally with photons, electrons, molecules the size of buckyballs, and even small diamonds. Research is also focused on the utilization of entanglement effects in communication and computation.

In a 2013 experiment, entanglement swapping has been used to create entanglement between photons that never coexisted in time, thus demonstrating that "the nonlocality of quantum mechanics, as manifested by entanglement, does not apply only to particles with spacelike separation, but also to particles with timelike [i.e., temporal] separation"

Quantum entanglement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Ave Maria]

I believe it is immoral to communicate with people from the future. For one thing, they don't yet exist. Every single human being is created at the moment of conception and therefore you and I do not exist before conception in our mother's womb. For another, communicating with people from the future seems an awful lot like divination.

 

[StevenMerten]

I believe it is immoral to communicate with people from the future. For one thing, they don't yet exist. Every single human being is created at the moment of conception and therefore you and I do not exist before conception in our mother's womb. For another, communicating with people from the future seems an awful lot like divination.

Hello Ave Maria,

Yes! I agree. Streaming HD internet with people from a thousand years into the future, or even twenty years into the future, sounds like divination.

Hey, I think I will look myself up on facebook in forty years, and see how my life turned out. Maybe watch some of my home videos.

 

[StevenMerten]

So lets put the two, Quantum Entanglement, and, Time Dilation, together to build our Time Machine.

Suppose science has developed their teleportation device using quantum entanglement. You put one chamber into your speed of light star ship. You do not even have to be aboard for the long flight. Just use your Entangled Particle Communication system to pilot the ship remote from earth. You put your ship into light speed long enough to get to two or three hundred years into the future. Then you land the ship back on earth. Back on earth you step through your entangled particle teleportation device, into your ship and open the door to greet your fellow earth beings from the future.

Now, of course, they too have entangled particle devices. They have gone to their future and visited scientists there. There they have already set up entangled particle teleportation, star gates, through out the universe. Because one cannot traverse back in time, they were simply, anxiously, waiting to include your, year 2014 star gate into their hub. Now you can go anywhere you want in the universe through an already constructed network of star gates. And, of course, there are plenty of people waiting in line to visit your year 2014 earth, star gate.

If you do not have teleportation invented yet, simply send up the drone to 200 or 300 years into the future, with your EPC (Entangled Particle Communicator) and a good supply of particles entangled with 2014 earth particles, and have them tell you how to build your half of the system.

 

[WarriorAngel]

We do speak to the future - its called time capsules.

Its more the past that needs spoken to. Where ppl do awesomely dumb things to mess up their lives.

That will never happen.. but its the spot where most good would come from it.
However; we cannot do life over - and youth needs to really really think things thru before they do ALL they do.

For every mistake one makes - it does effect their future.
Every single mistake leads to a new path - leaving behind paths we should have taken.