The Rapture, The Way I See It

[Optimax]

Ever considered the following verses and thought about, seeing the present state of Christians as a whole and questioned?

How is the Lord going to accomplish all this?

How is that going to happen?

The bold verse below says there is a time coming when the sons of God will be manifested.

That will be a wonderful event, how will it happen?

Rom 8:16-23
16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.
18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,
21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.
22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.
23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body. KJV

This is a powerful one also.

How is The Lord going to bring us to a place where we do those works?

John 14:12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father. KJV

This one really will take a lot. Only the Lord can bring this one to pass.

If one looks at all of the division right now in the Body of Christ it will take The Lord to bring us to the unity of the faith.

O yeah, then there is the statement that we will come to the knowledge of the Son of God, become perfect all the way to the same measure and stature of the FULLNESS of Christ.

Not part of a measure!

Not part of the Fulness!

The same measure, stature and fullness of Christ will be come to!

Again, only God can do that!

Eph 4:13
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: KJV

1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him ; for we shall see him as he is. KJV

Consider this scenario for it all to happen.

Notice 1 Cor 15: 51-52 tells that in the twinkling of an eye we shall be changed.

That change is the receiving of our glorified body.

Those who died born again will get their glorified body first and then we get ours.

We do not experience physical death as others have in the past. In an instant or in the twinkling of an eye we are changed.

For us it will be that we are in whatever state we are in physically and then in an instant this corrupt body is changed into a glorified body, just like the one Jesus has.

Jesus walked through walls and did other neat things.

1 Cor 15:51-52
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. KJV

Verse 17 says that the we which are alive and remain.

That is those born again ones who are alive on the planet when this event occurs.

Verse 17 continues and informs us that those who are alive on the planet when this event occurs will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air and we will be with The Lord and those who died being born again before this event.

1 Thess 4:13-17
13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. KJV

This event has been portrayed as long as I remember ever hearing about it as a chaotic event!

It is portrayed as in the twinkling of an eye we would rise to meet Him in the air.

This causing accidents, death, pain, etc all over the planet where there are born again people.

This never set right with me because God does things decently and in order.

We do not rise to meet Him in the twinkling of an eye!

The scripture say that we are changed in the twinkling of an eye!

We are to follow Jesus!

Isn’t that right?

Matt 16:24
Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.KJV

1 Peter 2:21
For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: KJV

We should follow His steps

The Amplified says we should follow in His footsteps.

1 Peter 2:21
For even to this were you called [it is inseparable from your vocation]. For Christ also suffered for you, leaving you [His personal] example, so that you should follow in His footsteps. AMP

What did Jesus do after He received His glorified body?

He did not immediately rise and go into heaven!

He stayed around for awhile!

Fact is, He stuck around for forty days!

What was He doing during that forty days?

Acts 1:3
To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God: KJV

He was still preaching the things that pertained to the kingdom of God!

We are to follow in His steps!

When we are changed in the twinkling of an eye I do not see us immediately going to heaven either.

He stayed forty days!

I believe we stay forty days!

He preached the things that pertained to the kingdom of God for forty days!

I believe we preach the things that pertain to the kingdom of God for forty days!

For forty days on the planet:

The sons of God will be manifested!

We will do the works He did and greater works!

We will be like Him!

We will arrive to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ!

One other scripture I believe will also be fulfilled at that event in those forty days!

1 Thess 3:13-4:1
To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. KJV

That is how I see it.

 

[Shepherd1]

Ok printing this one out so I can read it in the comfort of my lounge room with a nice cuppa!

 

[TasManOfGod]

Are you suggesting two raptures of the "Church" One for those asleep (died) and one for those living?

 

[hhodgson]

ahh... the Solomon concept...(or very close to it). Been a while since we have heard that scenerio... I keep saying I will get Charles Capps book on this teaching, but never did, but now I will... It's not new and has been around for a while, and from what I remember, he had good scriptural basis for what he believes...

I have several quotes, some prophetic words from various WoF teachers who have ministered in the area of the manifestation of the Sons of God in the last days before the rapture of the church, such as Capps, Copeland, Hagin, Winston, Dollar, Wommack, Billye Brim and sure there are others, and they are all pretty well saying the same thing except for the 40 day scenario. Capps is the only one that I know that is using that concept...

I will quote one from Creflo Dollar, who quoted Billye Brim saying... "I will use the words that Billye Brim says, that in the last days before Jesus returns in the rapture, there will be a wave of miracles throughout the world by the manifestation of the Sons of God that the world has never seen in such magnitude."

Another one from Kenneth Copeland... "God said to me: The time is coming and even now is for people to walk in the fullness of their callings... No, the day of the apostle is not over, the day of the prophet is not over. The day is coming soon when we will see people walk in apostolic and prophetic power in full measure in the last days that will in such a way that it will shake and startle the world. Jesus in not coming back for a weak, sickly church that had been defeated and beaten down by Satan. No, praise God, we are going out of here in a blaze of glory. You will be counted among "the new breed" that will go forth to the world."

Bill Winston says in his series of "The God Factor" that the works that he did shall we do to and greater works. Folks, I know were going to do greater works as Elijah did a number of miracles, but Elisha doubled the miracles. Jesus did a set of miracles but the church will double the miracles. Not only that but were going to do miracles on another level that your natural mind is not even remotely familiar with and even some believers are going to be doubting, "Wow, did that really happen? (Acts 13:41). Were about to see something in this last hour that has never been seen before on the earth. What we got to do is "believe". The only limit for you getting where you need to go, having what you need to have is what you "believe". It will not be you doing these Greater Works, it will be Jesus working through you as manifested Sons of God...

I don't know if any of our other WoF teachers mentioned support Capp's full scenerio of the 40 day concept, but haven't heard any of them teach against it either... I, myself am not either for or against this teaching at this time, but do admit it is very thought provoking. I will purchase Capp's book on the subject and read and absorb what he is saying...

Glad you brought it up Optimax...


Greater works...
_____________
Harry

 

[TasManOfGod]

Yes I do believe in some exciting and amazing times prior to the rapture but no, cannot accept the 40 day delay concept. I do believe that there will be those obedient to the Word from ALL believers over ALL generations who will return with him to rule and reign for 1000 years.

 

[now faith]

Glory to God, great Word it ties with Daniel

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Satan put up a fight over this word, but it is the everlasting Word.

 

[now faith]

and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever! If we are in heaven how are we going to turn many to righteousness?
As far as to and fro, and the increase of knowlage, look at how instant we are sharing the Word. Great post Optimax.

 

[TasManOfGod]

Glory to God, great Word it ties with Daniel

Daniel 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Satan put up a fight over this word, but it is the everlasting Word.

I assume you believe all scripture on end times refers to the Church.

 

[now faith]

I assume you believe all scripture on end times refers to the Church.

Yes?
every one that shall be found written in the book.

 

[now faith]

I assume you believe all scripture on end times refers to the Church.

What Book did Paul use to teach from on this topic? And he was teaching to the Church

 

[Shepherd1]

I prayed over this before reading it, and although I never had any reaction to it at the beginning, by the time I got to the part about the 40 days, I felt my spirit begin to soar LOL and this part really resonated with my spirit. It sure made sense when I read it, and it was as though Jesus was ministering this to me on a personal level. (I couldn't help but smile!) It has opened my mind somewhat and has made me feel much joy and excitement at the prospect of doing what Jesus did, with our wonderful new bodies and glorious new 'skill sets' LOL, before we are actually taken away. Makes perfect sense to me, and thankyou for sharing it. And wouldn't it it be fun to be able to use those new bodies for a while after having to put up with our earthly limitations for so long ha ha!

I believe in miracles... Do you?

Amen.

 

[Shepherd1]

and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever! If we are in heaven how are we going to turn many to righteousness?
As far as to and fro, and the increase of knowlage, look at how instant we are sharing the Word. Great post Optimax.

Amen Amen Amen!

 

[Optimax]

ahh... the Solomon concept...(or very close to it). Been a while since we have heard that scenerio... I keep saying I will get Charles Capps book on this teaching, but never did, but now I will... It's not new and has been around for a while, and from what I remember, he had good scriptural basis for what he believes...

I have several quotes, some prophetic words from various WoF teachers who have ministered in the area of the manifestation of the Sons of God in the last days before the rapture of the church, such as Capps, Copeland, Hagin, Winston, Dollar, Wommack, Billye Brim and sure there are others, and they are all pretty well saying the same thing except for the 40 day scenario. Capps is the only one that I know that is using that concept...

I will quote one from Creflo Dollar, who quoted Billye Brim saying... "I will use the words that Billye Brim says, that in the last days before Jesus returns in the rapture, there will be a wave of miracles throughout the world by the manifestation of the Sons of God that the world has never seen in such magnitude."

Another one from Kenneth Copeland... "God said to me: The time is coming and even now is for people to walk in the fullness of their callings... No, the day of the apostle is not over, the day of the prophet is not over. The day is coming soon when we will see people walk in apostolic and prophetic power in full measure in the last days that will in such a way that it will shake and startle the world. Jesus in not coming back for a weak, sickly church that had been defeated and beaten down by Satan. No, praise God, we are going out of here in a blaze of glory. You will be counted among "the new breed" that will go forth to the world."

Bill Winston says in his series of "The God Factor" that the works that he did shall we do to and greater works. Folks, I know were going to do greater works as Elijah did a number of miracles, but Elisha doubled the miracles. Jesus did a set of miracles but the church will double the miracles. Not only that but were going to do miracles on another level that your natural mind is not even remotely familiar with and even some believers are going to be doubting, "Wow, did that really happen? (Acts 13:41). Were about to see something in this last hour that has never been seen before on the earth. What we got to do is "believe". The only limit for you getting where you need to go, having what you need to have is what you "believe". It will not be you doing these Greater Works, it will be Jesus working through you as manifested Sons of God...

I don't know if any of our other WoF teachers mentioned support Capp's full scenerio of the 40 day concept, but haven't heard any of them teach against it either... I, myself am not either for or against this teaching at this time, but do admit it is very thought provoking. I will purchase Capp's book on the subject and read and absorb what he is saying...

Glad you brought it up Optimax...


Greater works...
_____________
Harry

Charles Capps is who I first heard teach on it as well.

Answered the questions I had about some scriptures.

 

[Optimax]

I prayed over this before reading it, and although I never had any reaction to it at the beginning, by the time I got to the part about the 40 days, I felt my spirit begin to soar LOL and this part really resonated with my spirit. It sure made sense when I read it, and it was as though Jesus was ministering this to me on a personal level. (I couldn't help but smile!) It has opened my mind somewhat and has made me feel much joy and excitement at the prospect of doing what Jesus did, with our wonderful new bodies and glorious new 'skill sets' LOL, before we are actually taken away. Makes perfect sense to me, and thankyou for sharing it. And wouldn't it it be fun to be able to use those new bodies for a while after having to put up with our earthly limitations for so long ha ha!

I believe in miracles... Do you?

Amen.

Yes I believe in miracles!

God is a big God.

He thinks way beyond what we think.

Until we learn what He is thinking.

Then we get excited thinking about it to.

 

[TasManOfGod]

I think a Berean approach needs to be taken here. The first thing that strikes me is -Why? We have had 2000 years to minister to the lost -40 more days will not help much. The appearance of Jesus did not increase the number of believers in Him but rather the preaching of his disciples after Pentecost (Check it out)
I believe that when the age of the Church finishes it finishes. The batten is then handed back to the Hebrews. Sure there will be saints returning to rule and reign, yes in glorified bodies and will include those who were asleep prior to the first resurrection

 

[TasManOfGod]

What Book did Paul use to teach from on this topic? And he was teaching to the Church

I see So you dont believe in a seven year period for the forgiveness of Israel and their resurrection like Rhema teaches?

 

[now faith]

I see So you dont believe in a seven year period for the forgiveness of Israel and their resurrection like Rhema teaches?[/

I have not studied,end times prophecy much due to so many theories.
Can you give me Bible verse on this? And I will share my thoughts with you.
But if my opinion does not support Rhema teaching so be it.

 

[now faith]

I see So you dont believe in a seven year period for the forgiveness of Israel and their resurrection like Rhema teaches?

The quote in Daniel does not support how many days the wise will witness.
So as with the 7 year period Daniel does not negate that scenario.

 

[TasManOfGod]

I see So you dont believe in a seven year period for the forgiveness of Israel and their resurrection like Rhema teaches?[/

I have not studied,end times prophecy much due to so many theories.
Can you give me Bible verse on this? And I will share my thoughts with you.
But if my opinion does not support Rhema teaching so be it.

It took many hours under annointed teachers to understand at least the important concepts of end time events.- IMO far to much detail to present line upon line here where there are so many diverse opinions Suffice to say that the teaching restores Israel as God's chosen people for a time after the age of the Church ends with the rapture of the Church.

 

[now faith]

It took many hours under annointed teachers to understand at least the important concepts of end time events.- IMO far to much detail to present line upon line here where there are so many diverse opinions Suffice to say that the teaching restores Israel as God's chosen people for a time after the age of the Church ends with the rapture of the Church.

Well this is exactly what we attempt to do here as well,we post opinion, and others respond.
I have found that all Denominations base their religious activities on opinions.
This is why I do not take a lot of time on interpretation of end time prophecy.
Just tonight a Baptist was basing his opinion,on the condition of the church in the last days.
His theories were conducted on just one letter to one church from Christ.
So his logic was wrong that one of the Churches represent the Church today.
This sermon was at a bible collage,so now you will has class after class of ministers,teaching this mans opinion.
I am under the opinion that through CHRIST we are all sons of Abraham, and God put forth a new covenant.
In Jesus own words he stated no man cometh to the Father but by me.
So this being stated by Christ Jesus,I take that to mean no Christ no God.
This is not in conflict with Christ coming back and the battle of Armageddon.
It supports the idea of the Church gaining power and providing witness to the Jews.
This is the only way by Christ that the theater of Armageddon,could be set.
In otherwise God would have to apologize to all in hell for being unjust on condition of life eternal.