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I have been speaking scripturally
And using scripture is the same as using solid proof for my faith.
Scripture says the Spirit is a promise to those who believe....
and you only get the Spirit through faith in God...
but you also have to believe in the truth...
therefore its hard as heck even for most believers to be saved
Indicating that the bar is somewhat needlessly high.
Who is this setup really intended to benefit? Suffering humans, or god's ego?
Just wondering---What do you, who do not believe in God--believe in??---You can not believe that God created you, that He has a purpose for you, that He has given you abilities and wants you to serve Him by serving others and loving Him and others. So, what's your purpose in life? What is your hopes for after death? We believe after death there will be a perfect and beautiful world where sin, death, illness is no longer. What do you have?--Is it this life, with all it's misery and sickness and then you die and that's it?? Do you live in empty hopelessness?? You may as well have never been born, then.
And you want us to believe that your way of thinking is superior to ours? You have nothing, we have everything, hope for the present, help in the present, and hope for our future after we die. We live in the joy of knowing a God that loves us and wants us to be with Him forever in a perfect world.
Yes, yes, thank you, o loving Christian, for assuming that because the dirty heathens don't have your morals they automatically do the things you disdain. Goodness knows you could have assumed that we do something higher with our limited time, like learn, or teach, or leave a legacy, instead of instantly going for the frivolous stuff.What is your joy--a bottle of Tequila, a romp in the hay, whatever "fun" you can grab for now, as that's all you've got??? We have something to strive for--what do you strive for??
This may not be the topic of this thread--but still, it's the core of the topic.
Two different gods?
Is this a general worldwide consensus or just a christian belief?
Quite possibly. So? What matters are facts, not opinions.
If you have factual information about a next life instead of idle speculation, then cite it.
Furthermore, what is the relevance of this line of questioning with respect to my original quote?
You say that as if your opinion is a fact. It is not.
Our way of thinking is superior because - unlike yours, apparently - it is not dependent on what we necessarily want to be so. What in the world does what I want have to do with reality? How could what I want have any effect on reality beyond the tiny part of it I can influence?
It would be great if there was a fair deity behind it all who wants to give everyone eternal life, but there is no good reason to think so, and me wanting it to be true doesn't change that.
If you don't have what it takes to handle the notion of this life being it, then fine - not everyone can - but there is no reason to assume that everyone else can't or shouldn't.
Personally, if the Christian god does exist, who would damn someone for honestly questioning what he sees and being unable to believe it due to personally finding it inadequate, I would much rather never have been born than end up on the end of his "moral" judgement. If I'm wrong, I plan on being cast into hell with my integrity intact, and I will not simply give in to what feels right, thank you very much.
Yes, yes, thank you, o loving Christian, for assuming that because the dirty heathens don't have your morals they automatically do the things you disdain. Goodness knows you could have assumed that we do something higher with our limited time, like learn, or teach, or leave a legacy, instead of instantly going for the frivolous stuff.
I'm sure you can find solace in that you plumped for the belief system that promises a helping God throughout life followed by eternal bliss because it's the right thing to do, while the people who willingly choose a belief where they know their fate is nothingness after 80 or so years at best are just being silly hedonists
I would like to turn your attention to and encourage you to read the Holy Bible. In it you will find answers to most if not all the subjects you claim you are ignorant of.
No it isn't.I have been speaking scripturally
And using scripture is the same as using solid proof for my faith.
So doesn't that tell you something is very wrong with the system? That most will fail to reach its standards.Scripture says the Spirit is a promise to those who believe....
and you only get the Spirit through faith in God...
but you also have to believe in the truth...
therefore its hard as heck even for most believers to be saved
Our way of thinking is superior because - unlike yours, apparently - it is not dependent on what we necessarily want to be so. What in the world does what I want have to do with reality? How could what I want have any effect on reality beyond the tiny part of it I can influence?
It would be great if there was a fair deity behind it all who wants to give everyone eternal life, but there is no good reason to think so, and me wanting it to be true doesn't change that.
If you don't have what it takes to handle the notion of this life being it, then fine - not everyone can - but there is no reason to assume that everyone else can't or shouldn't.
Personally, if the Christian god does exist, who would damn someone for honestly questioning what he sees and being unable to believe it due to personally finding it inadequate, I would much rather never have been born than end up on the end of his "moral" judgement. If I'm wrong, I plan on being cast into hell with my integrity intact, and I will not simply give in to what feels right, thank you very much.
Yes, yes, thank you, o loving Christian, for assuming that because the dirty heathens don't have your morals they automatically do the things you disdain. Goodness knows you could have assumed that we do something higher with our limited time, like learn, or teach, or leave a legacy, instead of instantly going for the frivolous stuff.
I'm sure you can find solace in that you plumped for the belief system that promises a helping God throughout life followed by eternal bliss because it's the right thing to do, while the people who willingly choose a belief where they know their fate is nothingness after 80 or so years at best are just being silly hedonists
Why should anyone feel that it is a good thing to forsake their own will and just act as you suggest? Non-Christians have no reason whatsoever to believe God exists nor do they have any reason whatsoever to believe that they are deaf, blind or "paralytic".Um God views those who put their trust in him as like a jewel. They are rather rare. He takes those for himself. If one would admit they cannot see, hear, and are pretty much paralytic then he can use that kind of person. They are able to forsake themselves and to believe in him fully.
So why is it moral for God to punish people who are legitimately deceived?Albeit one can be deceived too, so it's important to study as well to have knowledge of the truth.
You've touched upon the point, but not quite grasped it. We are all looking for truth.You can believe in Jesus in a blind way and never have met God. It is important to get the Spirit then. Which for me is a very real manifestation and is why I am really stubborn lol. Everyone has their own experiences and thoughts I guess concerning God and how to believe etc. Ah I think it's all so needless.. we are all seeking truth, it's better to admit we can't do it with what he have and somehow ask for mercy.
Why does Gods supposed "holiness" (whatever that means) require him to set up absurd standards for people to attain salvation?As far as hell goes it is just the punishment to those who fail to repent and to live holy. Since God is holy he requires it from us.
I daresay that if he was not evil he would not even have hell at all/If he was evil then perhaps he would not even care, and perhaps even further then there would be no eternal life for his believers.[
It is unfair and the solution you defend is inept. It requires first people to accept that the sacrifice happened and it also requires people to be willing to annul their moral responsibility and scapegoat it onto a human sacrifice done in their name.I know unbelievers view this as unfair but He did send his Son to fulfill that requirement. I believe he took all sin at his baptism, carried it to the cross paying the worlds sin off once and for all. So I believe there is no sin in the world.
How 'evil' do you think everyone is?People who repent recognize how evil they are and believe in that; with a repentant heart to practice good instead of sin.
Did you read the rest of the post? and yes most Jews, religious scholars and even atheists would agree they are two different gods. I believe the muslim god is not the god of the bible.
I would very much liked to have replied to you posts Skavau but I still haven't learned how to separate the quotes into sections like you can. and it would be very difficult for me to take on three atheists at once. plus I'm a slow typer. there's a reason I put the word noob under my name.
Well, do not worry--you will not be a part of it, because you do not want to be a part of it. I live in a rose-colored glass world? Maybe, but it is my preference. That makes me silly??---Maybe, maybe not.
We will find out eventually. But I will not be laughing at you, I will be sad for what could have been. My reality is that God has answered prayers, not just for me, but for others, even if they are of a different faith. You can call such things coincidence and laugh at those silly Christians for believing in fairy tales. And you're right, I should not have just mentioned the Tequila, that is the source of happiness for some, but not all--there are many atheists who are very good, moral people--I know a couple. We've had lots of great debates.
Esp the one about how, though I am a Christian, I've had many harsh trials in my life, a lot of heartache, whereas, he, has had no real problems and basically has sailed happily through life without much trouble. True enough. Then I remembered the old story of the hunter and his servant. The hunter did not believe in God the servant did. The master pointed out that he was the one with the good life, not he--he than shot himself a duck and the servant went after it---when he came back with duck in hand--he told his master--"You have no troubles, cause you already a dead duck!"---Satan hurls his strongest arrows at those that stand the strongest for God. He doesn't have to bother with those that are already lost.
Already have read it, thanks. Several times.
The Bible contains claims of the afterlife, certainly, but this is not necessarily evidence.
Why should I accept that there is something after death based on sayso?
Why should anyone feel that it is a good thing to forsake their own will and just act as you suggest? Non-Christians have no reason whatsoever to believe God exists nor do they have any reason whatsoever to believe that they are deaf, blind or "paralytic".
They do not deserve punishment for that.
So why is it moral for God to punish people who are legitimately deceived?
You've touched upon the point, but not quite grasped it. We are all looking for truth.
I don't see why people ought to be punished for failing to understand the truth as it is.
Why does Gods supposed "holiness" (whatever that means) require him to set up absurd standards for people to attain salvation?
I daresay that if he was not evil he would not even have hell at all/
It is unfair and the solution you defend is inept. It requires first people to accept that the sacrifice happened and it also requires people to be willing to annul their moral responsibility and scapegoat it onto a human sacrifice done in their name.
At any rate, I did not ask for this human sacrifice. I was not present. I would have objected if I was. Why should I be bound by it?
How 'evil' do you think everyone is?
What would I take as evidence of the existence of God? Empirical evidence of God or reasoned argument for his existence.thanks
could you answer the question I posted at the bottom?
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