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The Problem of Free Will

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GrowingSmaller

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Lets say for any x it is either necessary or contingent. The former and non - x is impossibble, and the later and non x is really possible. The necessity or ccontingency of x is philsophical rather than scientific, therefore not open to testing. So we have endless debates, about what is really "word play". Even for God, I am not sure He can solve this one.

In Islam God knows 'what people advance and what they leave behind' which IMO may be the something like light cone of their actions, in that i in one sense advance this message to you, and in another sense it is a vestige of my activity...
 
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juvenissun

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Please answer this question:

Let's say Fred has not yet made his day 2 a/b choice. God knows Fred will choose A out of his day 2 a/b choice. Fred then freely chooses B. What happens to God's knowledge that Fred would choose A?

What kind of god is that?
 
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Radagast

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You've posted exactly the same thing many times before, and received good answers (which you ignored).

This is spam.
 
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Albion

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Let's say you return to day 1. You know Fred will choose A on day 2. Fred then freely chooses B on day 2. What happens to your knowledge that Fred would choose A?

A mortal could do that. A demi-god of the Roman and Greek variety could do that. The God of the Bible cannot.

The question assumes that God has foreknowledge...and then poses a question which assumes that he does not. It is meaningless when asked of God.
 
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talquin

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A mortal could do that. A demi-god of the Roman and Greek variety could do that. The God of the Bible cannot.
The problem of free will is in response to claims that God knows everything and can do anything. It's not in response to claims that God is incapable of knowing future events.

The question assumes that God has foreknowledge...and then poses a question which assumes that he does not. It is meaningless when asked of God.
It assumes God has foreknowledge because it is in response to claims that God has foreknowledge. It doesn't ask a question which assumes he doesn't. It demonstrates that it is impossible for him to have infallible foreknowledge.
 
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ToddNotTodd

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The bolded part is where your error is. If a god sees everything as the past, there are no future events. This god has infallible knowledge because everything has already happened. So free will isn't affected.
 
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Hawkins

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Let's say you're faced with the choice of A or B. You choose B. Up until the time you selected option B, could you still have selected option A?

We are living by time. God is not. Say, He can anytime go to the future to see what you will choose.
 
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talquin

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We are living by time. God is not. Say, He can anytime go to the future to see what you will choose.
At a point in time in the human timeline which is day 1, do you say it is true that God knows what Fred will choose on day 2?

If so and we call variable X God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 a/b choice, would you say variable X has a truth value as of day 1?
 
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talquin

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The bolded part is where your error is. If a god sees everything as the past, there are no future events. This god has infallible knowledge because everything has already happened. So free will isn't affected.
Let's say variable X represents God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 A/B choice. Does variable X have a truth value as of our day 1?
 
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Hawkins

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You don't need to make it that complicated. We are bound by time such that we make our choices along with time. God however can anytime see the results, such that there's nothing unknown to Him including your future choices.

The meaning of your choices is for others to see who you are. Your choices are for the angels and chosen saints to witness who you are. God needs this witness to legitimately bring you to heaven, or not.
 
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Albion

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The problem of free will is in response to claims that God knows everything and can do anything.
Then it's not much of a rebuttal simply to say that he doesn't actually know everything and cannot do everything, is it?

It demonstrates that it is impossible for him to have infallible foreknowledge.

Nothing so far has demonstrated that it is impossible for him to have infallible foreknowledge. You merely have presented a hypothetical scenario in which God does not have foreknowledge.
 
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ToddNotTodd

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Let's say variable X represents God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 A/B choice. Does variable X have a truth value as of our day 1?

Yes, X has a truth value. It would have a truth value not just on day 1, but on any day of the universe's existence. Because the event is always in the past.

If X represents my knowledge of my lunch choice yesterday, then it has a truth value as of my day 1 (yesterday). That does not mean that my free will was compromised when I made the choice.

I think you might be confusing yourself with your own equation.
 
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talquin

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I can't understand where you're coming from unless you answer my questions:

At a point in time in the human timeline which is day 1, do you say it is true that God knows what Fred will choose on day 2?

If so and we call variable X God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 a/b choice, would you say variable X has a truth value as of day 1?
 
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talquin

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Then it's not much of a rebuttal simply to say that he doesn't actually know everything and cannot do everything, is it?
I wouldn't consider that a rebuttal, but a reconciliation.

Nothing so far has demonstrated that it is impossible for him to have infallible foreknowledge. You merely have presented a hypothetical scenario in which God does not have foreknowledge.
Please go back to the OP. I demonstrate it there. If there is something about the OP which you don't understand, please let me know.
 
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Albion

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Please go back to the OP. I demonstrate it there. If there is something about the OP which you don't understand, please let me know.

I know what the OP says and the thirty or so extracts from it that you've reposted. However, none of it demonstrates that God doesn't have foreknowledge; you've merely created a hypothetical scenario and a hypothetical God in that scenario who does NOT have foreknowledge...and then expected us to treat it as though that is, actually, what God is.
 
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ToddNotTodd

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I answered.
 
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talquin

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So you agree X (or God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 a/b choice) has a truth value as of our day 1.

Let's say it's day 1 and the truth value of X (or God's knowledge of Fred's day 2 a/b choice) is A. Day 2 then comes around and Fred freely chooses B. What then happens to God's knowledge that Fred would choose A?
 
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