A couple of questions before you drop the mike,
1) Will Evil be allowed in Heaven?
2) What happens to Heaven when it eventually becomes contaminated with evil?
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A couple of questions before you drop the mike,In regards to good and evil, free will is merely the ability to make decisions. However, Evil exists to make a choice possible. Therefore, a world void of evil would be a world void of any moral choices. Thus, rendering it inferior.
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According to scripture, there will be no evil in heaven because God's holiness will not allow it. Which is why a savior is needed in the first place. Without the imputed righteousness of Christ, we cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven. Second, there will be no evil because our glorified bodies will not be corrupted with the sin nature that is inherited from Adam.A couple of questions before you drop the mike,
1) Will Evil be allowed in Heaven?
2) What happens to Heaven when it eventually becomes contaminated with evil?
Or you can redefine what "Evil" is and suggest that it doesn't actually exist.Evil is a judgment call people make about actions we find extremely bad. It only exists in the context of human thought; get rid of human thought and you get rid of evil.
So then God doesn't have free will.According to scripture, there will be no evil in heaven because God's holiness will not allow it.
I don't know. Perhaps that you be one of the many limitations God has due to his nature. Technically, because God is the source of all goodness and that "evil" is defined as anything separate and apart from God's goodness, God cannot choose to separate Himself from Himself by choosing evil.So then God doesn't have free will.
So does that mean Heaven will be inferior because choice will not be allowed there?According to scripture, there will be no evil in heaven because God's holiness will not allow it. Which is why a savior is needed in the first place. Without the imputed righteousness of Christ, we cannot enter the kingdom of Heaven. Second, there will be no evil because our glorified bodies will not be corrupted with the sin nature that is inherited from Adam.
But before you said without evil, choice is not possible! Are you changing it now?An all-powerful God could, for example, separate good persons from evil ones according to what persons freely choose. Those who love God will be separated from those who do not. Those who desire the good but are hindered by evil will no longer have their good purposes frustrated. And those who do evil and are hampered by good influences will no longer be nagged by the proddings of good. Each, whether in heaven or hell, will have it according to their free choice. In this way God’s victory over evil would not violate free choice.
Choice or not, why didn’t God defeat evil before creating man; thus allowing him to live in a world without evil? Kinda like in Heaven?Not only can a theistic God defeat evil, but he will do it. We know this because he is all good and would want to defeat evil. And because he is all-powerful and is able to defeat evil. Therefore, he will do it. The guarantee that evil will be overcome is the nature of the theistic God.
Not yet; answer the above first, then we’ll see.Can I drop the mic now?
I never suggested such judgments don't exist, I am suggesting they only exist within the context of human thought.Or you can redefine what "Evil" is and suggest that it doesn't actually exist.
Okay, let's run with that for a bit. What's so great about free will if God doesn't have it and He's the greatest thing ever?I don't know. Perhaps that you be one of the many limitations God has due to his nature. Technically, because God is the source of all goodness and that "evil" is defined as anything separate and apart from God's goodness, God cannot choose to separate Himself from Himself by choosing evil.
For the record, this is getting beyond the scope of biblical scripture and into theological assumptions so take my opinions with a grain of salt. I never said that we wouldn't have free will in heaven. But I really do not know if there will be free will in heaven or not. Perhaps we will still have free will. However, if nobody has the desire for evil and their is nothing tempting anyone to choose evil it seems as though that choosing evil in heaven possible in theory, but not actually.So does that mean Heaven will be inferior because choice will not be allowed there?
But before you said without evil, choice is not possible! Are you changing it now?
Choice or not, why didn’t God defeat evil before creating man; thus allowing him to live in a world without evil? Kinda like in Heaven?
Thanx
As I have stated before, one of the limitations of God is that He cannot do anything contrary to his nature. God cannot make a rock so heavy He cannot lift, He cannot affirm something to be true and false at the same time, and He cannot by his nature choose evil. Not because He doesn't have free will. Rather because it would be a contradiction to His nature. Just because you cannot make a round square or a married bachelor it does not mean that you do not have a free will.Okay, let's run with that for a bit. What's so great about free will if God doesn't have it and He's the greatest thing ever?
You sorta did. First you said sin is necessary for free will/choice, then you said sin will not be allowed in Heaven. How is that different than saying there is no freewill in Heaven?For the record, this is getting beyond the scope of biblical scripture and into theological assumptions so take my opinions with a grain of salt. I never said that we wouldn't have free will in heaven.
If getting rid of the temptation to do evil and the desire for evil is enough to prevent people from choosing evil, Why didn’t God get rid of the temptation and desire in the first place? Why didn’t God get rid of those things before creating man?But I really do not know if there will be free will in heaven or not. Perhaps we will still have free will. However, if nobody has the desire for evil and their is nothing tempting anyone to choose evil it seems as though that choosing evil in heaven possible in theory, but not actually.
That still means God doesn't have free will. A rock can't choose to do anything other than it's nature of being a rock, and thus it doesn't have free will.As I have stated before, one of the limitations of God is that He cannot do anything contrary to his nature. God cannot make a rock so heavy He cannot lift, He cannot affirm something to be true and false at the same time, and He cannot by his nature choose evil. Not because He doesn't have free will. Rather because it would be a contradiction to His nature. Just because you cannot make a round square or a married bachelor it does not mean that you do not have a free will.
No. I said that the existence of evil was necessary to make a choice possible. Not that sin was necessary for free will. Without the existence of evil, or the desire to commit evil, sin would not exist in spite of having free will. If free will exists in heaven, it would be a choice that none will be willing to make. Just because nobody would be willing to make a certain choice does not mean they do not have free will. Again I say, although the it would be theoretically possible for people to choose to commit evil in heaven, it would be actually impossible for evil to exist in heaven. In regards to your second question, the honest answer is that I do not know. I am not God. We could also ask why God created the earth at all. Why not just a heaven? I believe that God wants people to make a choice to either love Him or rebel against him. If you have not read my essay that I posted, I suggest doing so because it touched on this with the "wind up doll" analogy. Basically, God wanted people to make the choice to love God in a way that is meaningful. Once the choice is made, after death, the purpose for evil then becomes obsolete.You sorta did. First you said sin is necessary for free will/choice, then you said sin will not be allowed in Heaven. How is that different than saying there is no freewill in Heaven?
Then you could argue that nobody has free will because we cannot choose to be rocks.That still means God doesn't have free will. A rock can't choose to do anything other than it's nature of being a rock, and thus it doesn't have free will.
If God gave us such a nature that we couldn't choose to do evil because it would contradict that nature, what would be the downside if that is the perfect way to be?
That doesn't really follow from what I said. Nor does it attempt to answer my question.Then you could argue that nobody has free will because we cannot choose to be rocks.
I am pretty sure that I discussed this in my research paper. But let be try to explain it in another way. Lets use light for an example. Darkness isn't a thing that actually exists, rather, it is an absence of light. Because of the physics of light, it is impossible for light to be absent from light to become darkness. Instead, darkness would be exposed to the light and would no longer be "darkness". God and His goodness works the same way. God is like a source of goodness and, like light any light source, His goodness is emitted from Him.That doesn't really follow from what I said. Nor does it attempt to answer my question.
That still doesn't attempt to answer my question. What's the downside?I am pretty sure that I discussed this in my research paper. But let be try to explain it in another way. Lets use light for an example. Darkness isn't a thing that actually exists, rather, it is an absence of light. Because of the physics of light, it is impossible for light to be absent from light to become darkness. Instead, darkness would be exposed to the light and would no longer be "darkness". God and His goodness works the same way. God is like a source of goodness and, like light any light source, His goodness is emitted from Him.
Lets say all of a sudden your body became the most intense light source in the universe. If this was the case, neither darkness could be in your presence or you could be in the presence of darkness. Even if you wanted too, you couldn't unless you reduced the intensity of your light by covering your body or stop emitting light altogether. However, even if you completely encapsulated your body so that none of your light is touched by others, your body would still never be touched by darkness. And there are biblical examples this. According to the Bible, it is impossible for human beings to see God in His full glory and live. As a result, God would "veil" his glory from humans.
If free will is possible without the existence of evil, why did God allow the existence of evil and create us with the desire to commit evil knowing it would lead to sin?No. I said that the existence of evil was necessary to make a choice possible. Not that sin was necessary for free will. Without the existence of evil, or the desire to commit evil, sin would not exist in spite of having free will.
How come God didn’t set up such a system here on Earth?If free will exists in heaven, it would be a choice that none will be willing to make. Just because nobody would be willing to make a certain choice does not mean they do not have free will. Again I say, although the it would be theoretically possible for people to choose to commit evil in heaven, it would be actually impossible for evil to exist in heaven.
I agree; and thank-you for your honesty. These type of questions is why I was unable to remain Christian; just too many things about it that didn’t make sense to me.In regards to your second question, the honest answer is that I do not know. I am not God. We could also ask why God created the earth at all. Why not just a heaven?
Yes, theoretically He could choose to hate because he has free will and is sovereign. However, hating His creation, although possible in theory, is impossible in actuality. But this doesn't mean that an Omnibenevolent being is incapable of hate or that hate is evil in every sense. God actually does hate some things. In particular, God hates sin like a mother hates the venomous snake that is about to strike her child. Another question is whether an omniscient being is capable of emotion or if biblical examples of His "emotions" are allegory for His justice and mercy?
Let's try being more specific. Can God choose to hate me?
If free will is possible without the existence of evil, why did God allow the existence of evil and create us with the desire to commit evil knowing it would lead to sin?
How come God didn’t set up such a system here on Earth?
Here is an excerpt from the Encyclopedia of Christian Apologetics that I believe addresses your question.I agree; and thank-you for your honesty. These type of questions is why I was unable to remain Christian; just too many things about it that didn’t make sense to me.
So that's a "No, God can't choose to hate me". Is His love for me inferior in some way to the love I'm supposed to feel for Him even though He can't choose?Yes, theoretically He could choose to hate because he has free will and is sovereign. However, hating His creation, although possible in theory, is impossible in actuality. But this doesn't mean that an Omnibenevolent being is incapable of hate or that hate is evil in every sense. God actually does hate some things. In particular, God hates sin like a mother hates the venomous snake that is about to strike her child.
I picked "hate" as a specific example because "God is love". Are you saying that God wants us to love Him, but He might be incapable of love? That seems pretty out there as a theory.Another question is whether an omniscient being is capable of emotion or if biblical examples of His "emotions" are allegory for His justice and mercy?
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