I am wondering about the need for pastors to be of a Post-Modernistic way of thinking. The church is made up of people who range from Traditionalists to Modernists to Post-Modernists and these people are, at the same time, all at different developmental stages in their mental maturity. A Traditionalist will not understand the way a Modernist thinks and a Modernist will not understand the way a Post-Modernist thinks. But a Post-Modernist will be able to understand the Modernist and the Traditionalist but the Modernist will be able to understand the Traditionalist but not the Post-Modernist. Now, how can a pastor who is a Traditionalist or a Modernist be effective in his preaching to a Post-Modernist when it comes to issues dealing with spiritual growth and community when he has a lack of understanding in other peoples understanding of truth? Is the answer simply that the pastor needs to be a Post-Modernist himself?
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The Post-Modernistic Pastor
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gmedwards
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i think you're right. we do need Pastors/ Ministers /Vicars who can understand the post -modern ideology. one of the problems in parts of the UK church is that those who lead our churches don't understand whats going on in our culture, and struggle to communicate effectively to post modern people. however what is encouraging, is that a 'post modern pastor' should by definition be able to communicate with people of a different worldview, because postmodernity is all about pluralism and difference, without accepting that one particular truth has precedence, so a post modern pastor should be able to see that value and importance of other traditions/styles. Certainly in the UK context this could only be a good thing! but as you rightly say if all we have are leaders who are steeped in a modernist ideology then they will struggle to connect with the emerging paradigm.
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Bizzlebin Imperatoris
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I say just teach the truth. If they don't want the truth in one form, they won't want it in any form.
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I agree gmedwards. And I think the realization of our own paradigms and how it affects our understanding of truth compared to other cultures is so important for cross cultural communication of the gospel. I think that one needs to be sensitive to the culture/cultures being communicated to. And in the case of multi-cultural churches, which are made up of people with different paradigms, one has to be even more sensitive to communicate to people who do not have a Post-modernistic ideology. But in a way it almost seems theoreticaly impossible to communicate in this way unless one is able to be knowlegable of each individual culture one is communicating to. Especially when language plays a big part in communication, as it does, and different cultures use the same language diffenerently. Because it would seem that trying to communicate effectively and with depth would be like playing a mile long game of croquet with only one shot, trying to communicate though to everyones individual paradigms. And the fact that not every one would be familiar with the french game of croquet is an example of communication that is limited to those who understand it; like only being able to communicate through to a limited amount of paradigms.
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gmedwards
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There is some truth in this, we must always proclaim the truth of Christ, however its the way we do that which is important. its not as simple as 'just' teaching truth, we have to present the truth in a way that people can connect with, so that they can understand how the truth of the Gospel can be "thier" truth, Paul understands this and engages with it in Acts 17, and we must take contextualisation seriously too. This becomes very clear if you look at the work of Vincent Donavan, or Leslie Newbigin, we must present the Gospel in a culturally relevant way. This is becoming more and more important as the emerging culture reveals itself to us, and this is why we must wrestle with issues of post modernity, and what it means to be postmodern Christians, whether pastors, preacher, evangelists whatever - we must always attempt to offer relevant ministry through the power of God.Bizzlebin Imperatoris said:
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Bizzlebin Imperatoris
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As long as the truth is not bent in any way, then sure, teach it the way you like.
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truth is ALWAYS subjective to a certain extent, depending on all manner of things, your personal experience, tradition, reasoning, far too simplistic to simply state that the truth mist not be bent in any way without some qualification.Bizzlebin Imperatoris said:
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Bizzlebin Imperatoris
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Probably so. However, if one follows this as a general rule, then specifics should not be necessary.crunchie said:
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Bizzlebin Imperatoris
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Some formalized leadership structure is necessary however. And that is Biblical.AV1611 said:I say get rid of all clerisy and return to the NT pattern whereby the Holy Ghost led and all teaching was in spirit and truth and 100% Biblical. Simple really
Anyways, if you want me to find an Orthodox church near you, let me know
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yes leadership ordained through the church, who's call, and life, and theology has been seen to be of God. not those who in some churches simply ordain themselves!
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Bizzlebin Imperatoris
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Bizzlebin Imperatoris
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It is un-canonical for a women to be a priest or bishop. I believe these are the equivalents of pastor.Crazy Liz said:
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Post Modernism doesn't, Can't Jive with christianity Man. Post modernism is the return to Judges. Every man did what was right in his own eyes. Pretty much people make up there own truth, nothing is real except in your own mind! How do I know you people are real?How do I know this computer is real? Are you really typing this or is my mind just making this all up to entertain itself? Are the posts someone elses thoughts or are they my thoughts that lie deeper in my mind and are coming to me subconsciously as somebody elses?
What kind of drivel is that? I have had people tell me the sky is not blue I only percieve it as blue because that is what i have been taught. I'm sorry the sky is the same color no matter what word we give that color it is always the same. They take away their base on which to build (which would be logic being able to reason things out) in their search for truth. They destroy truth to build their own "truth". Teh gospel of Christ is not subject to personal experience. It says what it means and means what it says. It Is TRUTH.
What kind of drivel is that? I have had people tell me the sky is not blue I only percieve it as blue because that is what i have been taught. I'm sorry the sky is the same color no matter what word we give that color it is always the same. They take away their base on which to build (which would be logic being able to reason things out) in their search for truth. They destroy truth to build their own "truth". Teh gospel of Christ is not subject to personal experience. It says what it means and means what it says. It Is TRUTH.
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Great caricature!Nemo0213 said:
So Christianity is only compatible with modernism?
I thought personal experience was what the gospel was all about. How long has it been since you read the Gospel of John?
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Modernism? Who cares? Christianity comes from the bible. It can not be put into classifications Such as modernism or post-modernism which are terms that are made up by people to explain why they don't want to believe.
The relationship aspect of Christianity is based on personal experience. The gospels are factual documents put forth by God to reveal himself in his Son Jesus Christ. And I don't remember any of the gospels mincing words when it came to the subject of TRUTH. Jesus said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No one comes to the father but through me." John 14:6. Post modernism teaches that every view point is valid and just as true as the next. Which would make Jesus a liar. Which means post-modernism and Christianity don't Jive.
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