The Pluto Issue

Spacewyrm · Feb 15, 2010

Personally, I think they ought to just call everything that's basically spherical due to gravity out in space a planet. So, all 8 current planets, and Pluto and Ceres and all the dwarf planets, the Moon, and all the other big moons, they should all be planets.

I mean, the big moons around Jupiter, Saturn, &c. are all basically the same thing as the Earth, Mars, Venus, and Mercury: big balls of rock with varying levels of geological activity. I don't see why what the object is orbiting is really all that important.

laurele · Feb 15, 2010

There is a precedent for referring to those moons large enough to be rounded by their own gravity as secondary planets. The term secondary refers to the fact that their primary orbit is around another planet while their secondary orbit is around the Sun. This term was used frequently during the 19th century. We can use it as the "official" designation for these bodies while colloquially continuing to refer to them as moons.

Ryal Kane · Feb 15, 2010

Poor Pluto, demoted like that. He never saw it coming.
And even if he did, it was still five and a half hourse after it had happened.

Seriously though, the terminology is a minor point that got overinflated in the public consciousness. A lot of people, it seems, have difficulty sepeating symbols from their meanings.

AV1611VET · Feb 15, 2010

Ryal Kane said:
Poor Pluto, demoted like that. He never saw it coming.
And even if he did, it was still five and a half hourse after it had happened.

Seriously though, the terminology is a minor point that got overinflated in the public consciousness. A lot of people, it seems, have difficulty sepeating symbols from their meanings.

Good think they didn't find stuff larger than earth!

Tinker Grey · Feb 15, 2010

Why? If they defined Earth as not a planet, how would it make any difference?

LightHorseman · Feb 16, 2010

Tinker Grey said:
Why? If they defined Earth as not a planet, how would it make any difference?

Because when they defined Pluto as not a plaent, it ceased to exist. You fail at astronomy.

Tinker Grey · Feb 16, 2010

Ah. I see now. Definitions change reality. Got it.

laurele · Feb 16, 2010

The IAU classification did not make Pluto cease to exist; it did not even change the reality of what Pluto is. However, it did generate tremendous confusion among the general public as well as the misconception that the astronomy community had reached consensus on this matter when in reality they have not. The questions of what the definition of planet is, who decides, and whether or not Pluto qualifies as a planet remain the subjects of an ongoing debate.

AV1611VET · Feb 16, 2010

laurele said:
The questions of what the definition of planet is, who decides, and whether or not Pluto qualifies as a planet remain the subjects of an ongoing debate.

Not here though.

Whooo boy --- no sireee!

Pluto is a dwarf planet --- end of sentence.

AV1611VET · Feb 16, 2010

I think the least the scientific community could have done as far as representing our ninth planet to us is take a don't-ask/don't-tell stance.

While we slept, certain men in the IAU crept in unawares, who were never before ordained as planetary astronomers, and changed the glory of our solar system into an image made like unto one of a smile with a missing tooth.

Tinker Grey · Feb 16, 2010

So what?

AV1611VET · Feb 16, 2010

Tinker Grey said:
So what?

What do you mean, 'so what'?

I had to get every book on the solar system I had and 'x a paragrab' in it with my El Marko.

And that model of the solar system I built from Lincoln Logs™ has to be redone.

(Well, come to think of it, it is geocentric, so my niece wants it redone anyway.)

It took me six hours to find and remove the card in my Trivial Pursuit™ that asked the name of Pluto's moon.

All those statistics about how long it will take for light to surpass the last planet in our solar system have to be found and x-paragrab'd.

All those statistics about how long our solar system is from end-to-end, how much it weighs, where its center of mass is located, etc. will have to be redacted.

And you ask, 'so what'?

Tinker Grey · Feb 16, 2010

Yeah. So what?

Cabal · Feb 16, 2010

AV1611VET said:
I think the least the scientific community could have done as far as representing our ninth planet to us is take a don't-ask/don't-tell stance.

What, so you have another double standard to throw at us?

While we slept, certain men in the IAU crept in unawares, who were never before ordained as planetary astronomers, and changed the glory of our solar system into an image made like unto one of a smile with a missing tooth.

Oh BS. So our universe wasn't glorified fully when we only knew out to as far as Saturn?

And as with all this times you get all pitiful about science updating itself, you believed the first definition hook, line and sinker - so you can just toddle on and accept the new one. Or does you usually just swing between total credulity and being utterly reactionary?

(Oh wait, you're a creationist - no need to answer that last on.)

AV1611VET said:
What do you mean, 'so what'?

I had to get every book on the solar system I had and 'x a paragrab' in it with my El Marko.

You have a book with an entire paragraph to tell you that Pluto is a planet?

What is it, My First Astronomy Book?

And that model of the solar system I built from Lincoln Logs has to be redone.

(Well, come to think of it, it is geocentric, so my niece wants it redone anyway.)

It took me six hours to find and remove the card in my Trivial Pursuit that asked the name of Pluto's moon.

Please. I'm sympathetic to the planetary astronomer here that actually, y'know, WORKS on this stuff - otherwise, call a wahhhhbulance.

All those statistics about how long it will take for light to surpass the last planet in our solar system have to be found and x-paragrab'd.

All those statistics about how long our solar system is from end-to-end, how much it weighs, where its center of mass is located, etc. will have to be redacted.

And?

That might seem challenging for you, I admit.

Btw, nice pick of words with "redacted". Evidence or retract.

And you ask, 'so what'?

Pretty much.

AV1611VET · Feb 16, 2010

Cabal said:
You have a book with an entire paragraph to tell you that Pluto is a planet?

What is it, My First Astronomy Book?

laurele · Feb 16, 2010

AV1611VET said:
What do you mean, 'so what'?

I had to get every book on the solar system I had and 'x a paragrab' in it with my El Marko.

And that model of the solar system I built from Lincoln Logs has to be redone.

(Well, come to think of it, it is geocentric, so my niece wants it redone anyway.)

It took me six hours to find and remove the card in my Trivial Pursuit that asked the name of Pluto's moon.

All those statistics about how long it will take for light to surpass the last planet in our solar system have to be found and x-paragrab'd.

All those statistics about how long our solar system is from end-to-end, how much it weighs, where its center of mass is located, etc. will have to be redacted.

And you ask, 'so what'?

What a mistake you're making to do this. The only thing it will accomplish is expunging any and all knowledge of Pluto from your astronomy sources. That is sad. Plus, the solar system does not end at Neptune or Pluto; it goes all the way out to the Oort Cloud, which is past the Kuiper Belt. If anything, you should be adding, not subtracting--adding Ceres, Haumea, Makemake and Eris plus the data on each one of them, and adding the Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud. Because 424 astronomers voted on a controversial decision that does not even have consensus in the astronomy community, you're going to take the time to throw knowledge away? For the sake of your niece, please rethink this choice.

AV1611VET · Feb 16, 2010

laurele said:
What a mistake you're making to do this. The only thing it will accomplish is expunging any and all knowledge of Pluto from your astronomy sources. That is sad. Plus, the solar system does not end at Neptune or Pluto; it goes all the way out to the Oort Cloud, which is past the Kuiper Belt. If anything, you should be adding, not subtracting--adding Ceres, Haumea, Makemake and Eris plus the data on each one of them, and adding the Kuiper Belt and the Oort Cloud. Because 424 astronomers voted on a controversial decision that does not even have consensus in the astronomy community, you're going to take the time to throw knowledge away? For the sake of your niece, please rethink this choice.

Thank you, Laurele, but I was just joking.

I don't even have any Lincoln Logs or Trivia Pursuit game.

And you made a good point too, in that I would be expunging any heritage of Pluto existing as a planet.

For the record, I still consider Pluto our 9th planet, despite what the IAU says about it.

rhaegar · Feb 16, 2010

I'd say we go back keeping the planets at the original 7: Selene, Hermes, Aphrodite, Helios, Ares, Zeus and Kronos.

Cabal · Feb 16, 2010

rhaegar said:
I'd say we go back keeping the planets at the original 7: Selene, Hermes, Aphrodite, Helios, Ares, Zeus and Kronos.

See, Kronos just sounds so much more awesome.

And today if we carried on with the Greek we'd have Caelus, Poseidon and Hades to add on (ok, maybe not the last one )

Why isn't the IUA doing something about this? Roman names suck.

Also I just noticed that a few of Saturn's moons - sorry - Kronos' moons are named after Titans...as well as one called "Titan". I think I need to bop whoever did that for a lack of originality.

AV1611VET · Feb 16, 2010

rhaegar said:
I'd say we go back keeping the planets at the original 7: Selene, Hermes, Aphrodite, Helios, Ares, Zeus and Kronos.

Cabal said:

See, Kronos just sounds so much more awesome.

And today if we carried on with the Greek we'd have Caelus, Poseidon and Hades to add on (ok, maybe not the last one )

Why isn't the IUA doing something about this? Roman names suck.

Also I just noticed that a few of Saturn's moons - sorry - Kronos' moons are named after Titans...as well as one called "Titan". I think I need to bop whoever did that for a lack of originality.

Click to expand...

Beings as Paul says that some people who call themselves sapiens will end up becoming atheists, and change the glory of God's creation into that of corruptible man (Hermes, Zeus, the Titans, etc.), I can understand how you guys must feel.

The Pluto Issue

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