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mannysee
Guest
The more I think about this often seen phrase, I am beginning to grow in my conviction that this is a stamp of covenantal language.
Would this be correct?
Would this be correct?
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Phileoeklogos
Alten Schule Baptist
I think it has to carry covenantal meaning, how else would one be "in Christ" but by means of covenant, if my study plate wasn't so full right now I'd look more closely at it, keep digging and post what you come up with..........
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dan p
Guest
Hi mannysee , Robert C Brock has written a booklet on this subject called " IN CHRIST " and he cataloged all references where it is written in the bible , and Paul seem to be the only one to use that Phrase " IN CHRIST " and Paul is a Dispensationalist , Eph 3:2 .
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Look Up
"What is unseen is eternal"
I'm not sure what you mean. I suppose the "in Christ," "in Him," "in God" language seems a bit obscure to most of us thinking in Euclidean geometry terms, or perhaps more so to those of us whose culture accents individualism and egalitarianism as opposed to collectivist and authoritarian aspects of humanity. Even so, human analogies in the end may not be expected to capture entirely the significance of the relationship between the those in Christ and Christ.
There does seem to be an aspect that is at least analogous to a spacial concept. Those in Christ are located in Christ in some way(s). The relationship also seems to imply a representative headship of Christ over and on behalf of those in Him. This latter in particular seems almost tangibly consistent with ideas of covenant, although the terms for "in Christ" do not always necessarily and overtly draw the connection.
There does seem to be an aspect that is at least analogous to a spacial concept. Those in Christ are located in Christ in some way(s). The relationship also seems to imply a representative headship of Christ over and on behalf of those in Him. This latter in particular seems almost tangibly consistent with ideas of covenant, although the terms for "in Christ" do not always necessarily and overtly draw the connection.
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dan p
Guest
Hi , and you should be able to Google Robert C Brock and read his booklet of " IN CHRIST " and see for yourself , dan p
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Edouard
Regular Member
Anyone speak plain english here, or do we make the word of God so complicated that it confuses more people.
"In Christ"
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Speaks of us doing acts or speaking as if Christ is in us. The holy spirit.
However, read Jude. Even the demons and Satan himself have been in the presence of both Jesus and God. One must be a christian and have the relationship with God, unlike those who say I know Him and Christ says I do not know you.
Edouard.
"In Christ"
In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Speaks of us doing acts or speaking as if Christ is in us. The holy spirit.
However, read Jude. Even the demons and Satan himself have been in the presence of both Jesus and God. One must be a christian and have the relationship with God, unlike those who say I know Him and Christ says I do not know you.
Edouard.
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Dispy
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dan p said:Paul is a Dispensationalist , Eph 3:2 .[/QUOTE
LOL!
In Ephesians 2 alone, Paul speaks of 3 dispensations. IMHO that does make him a dispensationalists.
In Eph. 2:11, 12, he speaks of TIMES PAST, ie.e how things were in the past.
In vs. 13 he speaks of BUT NOW, as they are today.
In vs. 7 he speaks of THE AGES TO COME. When God brings everything to fruition.
If one does not believe that circumcision, animal sacrifices, and other Jewish requirements, are for today, then that one is also a dispensationalists.
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Dispy
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"For we are members of His body, of His flesh, and of His bones" (Eph. 5:30).
As one who has placed his FAITH alone in the Cross work (death, burial, and resurrection - 1 Cor. 15:1-4) for my salvation, I am "in Christ". "...Sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise...until the redemption of the purcchased possession, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13, 14), and baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13), no water or proxy involved.
As one who has placed his FAITH alone in the Cross work (death, burial, and resurrection - 1 Cor. 15:1-4) for my salvation, I am "in Christ". "...Sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise...until the redemption of the purcchased possession, unto the praise of His glory" (Eph. 1:13, 14), and baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ (1 Cor. 12:13), no water or proxy involved.
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Osage Bluestem
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LovedofHim
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Those who are "in Christ" are believers, saved by the blood of Christ.
Was Abraham "in Christ"? Abraham had a covenant with God but Christ wasn't a part of that covenant.
Was Paul "in Christ"? Yes.
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heymikey80
Quidquid Latine dictum sit, altum viditur
The existence of dispensations of God's grace is accepted by covenantalists. The question is which rules ... rule -- wiping out rules and rebuilding them with each dispensation, or covenants that successively fulfill stipulations of other covenants -- or remain in force.
These are completely different from the normal dispensations people talk about.
Plus, they're about the Gentiles' personal experiences in their own lives.
So there's no opposition left in dispensationalism? Covenantalists don't believe that the requirements are for today, that they've been fulfilled by the Greater Elements to which they originally pointed and promised, and they were then fulfilled by,
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swordmaster
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You are correct. If you look at the passages speaking on the Kingdom of God, baptism, regeneration, "in Christ" and being a disciple of Christ, you will find that they are all interrelated.
We cannot enter the Kingdom of God unless we are first "born of water (baptism) and the Spirit (regeneration).
When we are regenerated, we are given all we need to enter into the presence of God that we can never have on our own (if you study the Tent of Meeting and all the furniture, as well as the duties of the priests, you will find shadows of Christ and what He gives to us from the cross...tearing the veil down in two).
Christ came to inaugurate the New Covenant in His blood, doing away with the first covenant to establish the second. When we are baptized, we enter into the covenant (we are baptized into Christ). Since we are in the covenant, becoming the covenant people of God, we are in the Kingdom of God (those who obey God make up the Kingdom here on earth). When we enter into the covenant relationship with God, we inherit the promises, the most important of which is eternal life. This Divine Relationship is spoken of in the term "in Christ."
Just as circumcision was the "sign" of one in participation in the old covenant, so baptism is the "sign" of one participating in the new covenant.
Blessings!
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swordmaster
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Actually, if you look into the difference between being "saved" and having eternal life "in Christ," we don't come to that conclusion. We are not in Christ because we are "saved," we are "saved" (have eternal life) because we are in Christ...in the covenant.
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swordmaster
Guest
Ah, yes, but we are not talking about the old covenant, we are talking about the new covenant, inaugurated in the blood of Christ.
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dan p
Guest
Hi , and you are right as , being " in Christ " , Paul shows a 49 instances how it it is used in a Practical Application and 62 instances how it is used in a Docrtine Application .
It is not an OBSCURE subject , dan p
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Optimax
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Read the verses.
Verses like the following tell us who we are or what we have been given or made in Christ.
Rom 8:1-2
8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
KJV
1 Cor 1:30
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
KJV
Verses like the following tell us who we are or what we have been given or made in Christ.
Rom 8:1-2
8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
KJV
1 Cor 1:30
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
KJV
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ReformedPharisee
Messenger of the New Covenant
Mannysee, I have not read the other replies, so please forgive if this is redundant...but yes, you are correct. When we see Isaiah 42.6 where God tells us that He is giving us the Messiah as the Covenant, we see that when one is in Christ, one is in Covenant with God. Not to mention that Christ Himself told us that His blood was the blood of the New Covenant.
Isaiah 42:6
"I am the LORD; I have called you in righteousness; I will take you by the hand and keep you; I will give you as a covenant for the people, a light for the nations,"
This passages is from a larger Messianic Prophecy, and we have God speaking here, telling us that He is sending the Messiah to be a Covenant for us. Then we see...
Luke 22:20
Likewise He also took the cup after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is shed for you.”
Matthew 26:27-28
Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, “Drink of it, all of you, for this is My blood of the New Covenant, which is shed for many, for the forgiveness of sins.”
The New Covenant is in the Blood of Christ, and Christ is the embodiment of the New Covenant, just as He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and just as He is the Life and the Resurrection.
"In Christ" is Covenant language, just as "walking in the Spirit" is...the Biblical meaning, not the traditional meaning that the church has assigned it to mean.
If we are in Christ, we are in that Covenant Relationship with God.
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