The "perfect"

[FaithAlone]

In 1 Corinthians 13 Paul writes that when the perfect comes, the partial will be done away. What do you think the "perfect" is and how does that apply to us? I have my own ideas but I want to hear some others. This discussion was brought up in another thread pertaining to tongues, but I want to hear some other opinions backed up by scripture. Stinker, I welcome your posts, but we don't have to go in circles about this again. I'm going to limit my comments.

 

[sandman]

I have heard it said by some that it was referencing the Bible, as we know it. But it is in the context of “seeing Him face to face” which can only be when the perfect lover, who is Christ, has returned.

What say you?


Bless

sandman

 

[tqpix]

"Perfect" was translated from the Greek word teleios; it means "of full age"; "man"; "perfect". I think it means that when we have learned everything we need to know about God's word, and we have taken it among ourselves to do those which are pleasing to him, we are "perfect" (or "complete"), because we have matured (verse 11) spiritually and mentally.

Teleios also appear in the following verses:

• Luke 8:14
• 1 Corinthians 2:6
• Ephesians 4:13
• Philippinans 3:15
• Colossians 4:12
• Hebrews 5:12-14
• James 1:4.

 

[YahwehLove]

I have heard it said by some that it was referencing the Bible, as we know it. But it is in the context of “seeing Him face to face” which can only be when the perfect lover, who is Christ, has returned.

What say you?


Bless

sandman

amen.
that face to face comment definetly rules out the bible.

 

[Nazarite]

I have considered a couple of the points already submitted as possible interpretations of this passage: 1) the perfect being a reference to the completion of Scripture 2) the perfect being a reference to the end of all things. I would like to add yet another possiblility. I am a preterist (partial) and there seem to be several references made by Paul in this epistle to the end.

7Therefore you do not lack any spiritual gift as you eagerly wait for our Lord Jesus Christ to be revealed. 8He will keep you strong to the end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Co. 1:7-8).

13his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man's work (1 Co. 3:13).

Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God (1 Co. 4:5).

5hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord (1 Co. 5:5).

31those who use the things of the world, as if not engrossed in them. For this world in its present form is passing away (1 Co. 7:31).

11These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come (1 Co. 10:11).

My point is that it is possible that Paul is making reference to the end of the Jewish age and the time when Christianity would begin to advance unhindered by the persecution of the Jews who refused to accept Jesus as Messiah.

 

[icxn]

tqpix got it right:

Quote from The Philokalia, Vol. 2:

Those who are beginners and stand at the gate of the divine court of the virtues (cf. Exod. 27:9) are called 'God-fearing' by Scripture (cf. Acts 10:2; 13:16, 26). Those who with some measure of stability have acquired the principles and qualities of the virtues, it describes as 'advancing'. Those who in their pursuit of holiness have by means of spiritual knowledge already attained the summit of that truth which reveals the virtues, it entitles 'perfect'. Thus he who has abandoned his former passion-dominated way of life, and out of fear has submitted his entire will to the divine com*mandments, will lack none of the blessings which are appropriate to beginners, even though he has not yet acquired stability in the practice of the virtues or come to share in the wisdom spoken among those who are perfect: (cf. 1 Cor. 2:6). And he who is ad*vancing will not lack any of the blessings, which belong to his de*gree, even though he has not yet acquired the transcendent know*ledge of divine realities possessed by the perfect. For the perfect have already been initiated mystically into contemplative theology: having purified their intellects of every material fantasy and bearing always the stamp of the image of divine beauty in all its fullness, they manifest the divine love present in their hearts.

 

[johnd]

1 Corinthians 13:

1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

2 If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

3 If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

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4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud.​

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5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs.​

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6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.​

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7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.​

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8 Love never fails.​

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But where there are prophecies, they will cease;​

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where there are tongues, they will be stilled;​

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where there is knowledge, it will pass away.​

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9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part,​

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10 but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears.​

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11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child.​

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When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.​

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12 Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror;​

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then we shall see face to face.​

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Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.​

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13 And now these three remain: faith, hope and love.​

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But the greatest of these is love.​

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Perfection = Love (God is Love)​

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1 John 3:

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

 

[johnd]

Undoubtedly, with the complete canonized Bible a lot of things have changed. Given the world situation and biblical misuse / lack of use, I'd say it has gotten people spiritually lazy.* But I do not believe that it did away with anything (tongues, prophesying, etc.).

* we have more translations in every language of the Bible today than in any other time in history, along with the highest literacy rates... of the complete Bible... yet it is used less and less and less... because people want to sin.

 

[Theophorus]

Yes it is the complete man. In this instance Paul is describing how "love" perfects or completes a person, notice how all other virtues and gifts listed before are "incomplete" without love. It is love that perfects all other virtues.

 

[FaithAlone]

The complete man theory sounds good, but wouldn't Paul be a lot closer to perfect than most and he still spoke in tongues. If that were the case wouldn't we all be speaking in tongues? I don't know many who I see living out the scriptures in a perfect way even by our standards. Just a thought. I do see where your coming from though. Someone said that the word "perfect" is gender neuter so it probably isn't Jesus, but I think it could be Heaven. I've never spoken in tongues so I'm not even sure if it does still exist, but if this is the only verse that is used for cessation I think that is a weak argument. Good comments though, you all have given me some stuff to think about.

 

[YahwehLove]

The complete man theory sounds good, but wouldn't Paul be a lot closer to perfect than most and he still spoke in tongues. If that were the case wouldn't we all be speaking in tongues? I don't know many who I see living out the scriptures in a perfect way even by our standards. Just a thought. I do see where your coming from though. Someone said that the word "perfect" is gender neuter so it probably isn't Jesus, but I think it could be Heaven. I've never spoken in tongues so I'm not even sure if it does still exist, but if this is the only verse that is used for cessation I think that is a weak argument. Good comments though, you all have given me some stuff to think about.

He'll be even closer when he sees ''face to face''

 

[Theophorus]

The complete man theory sounds good, but wouldn't Paul be a lot closer to perfect than most and he still spoke in tongues. If that were the case wouldn't we all be speaking in tongues? I don't know many who I see living out the scriptures in a perfect way even by our standards. Just a thought. I do see where your coming from though. Someone said that the word "perfect" is gender neuter so it probably isn't Jesus, but I think it could be Heaven. I've never spoken in tongues so I'm not even sure if it does still exist, but if this is the only verse that is used for cessation I think that is a weak argument. Good comments though, you all have given me some stuff to think about.

Yes it could be heaven, but the principal would still apply, being in the presence of love is what allows one to see himself, and others, and puts all things into perspective. I have always thought that it is good to contrast Eph 4:12-16 with 1 Cor 13. Eph speaks of us all coming into a unity of faith, a "Perfect" man the fulness and stature of Christ by speaking the truth in love for the purpose of edifying itself in love.

Yes it may be hard to imagine complete men in this world, they are few and far between, but reading the lives of some of the early martyrs, and monastics (and knowing a couple) both past and present, I can see how love perfects a man, if even for a moment.

 

[FaithAlone]

I see your point. I don't agree right now but I'm still looking into it.