The Passion and the Talmud

[Oblio]

Terry Mattingly

The ancient rabbinic text is clear about the punishment for those who twisted sacred law and misled the people of Israel.

Offenders would be stoned and then hung by their hands from two pieces of wood connected to form a "T." The Talmud once included this example from the Sanhedrin.

"On the eve of Passover they hung Jesus of Nazareth," said the passage, which was censored in the 16th century to evade the wrath of Christians. "The herald went out before him for 40 days saying, 'Jesus goes forth to be stoned, because he has practiced magic, enticed and led astray Israel. Anyone who knows anything in his favor, let him come and declare concerning him.' And they found nothing in his favor."

If armies of Jewish and Christian scholars insist on arguing about Mel Gibson's explosive movie "The Passion of the Christ," it would help if they were candid and started dealing with the hard passages in Jewish texts as well as the Christian scriptures.

At least, that's what David Klinghoffer thinks.

Read the entire article on the Terry Mattingly website.

 

[Hix]

Rubbish, David Klinghoffer enjoys taking out of context quotes and putting Jesus name to them to make it sound like hes mentioned in the Talmud. Yeshua (Jesus) is never mentioned ONCE in the Talmud nor is his death, nor his followers, his mother or anything.

Try these links:
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesus.html
http://www.angelfire.com/mt/talmud/jesusnarr.html

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[simchat_torah]

Hix is quite right...

Y'shua is never once mentioned in the Talmud. I'll come back later and provide some meat to my claim

shalom,
yafet

 

[OrthodoxTexan]

It appears that 12th century Jewish interpreters of the Talmud, such as Maimonides, clearly viewed the Talmudic reference as referring to Jesus of Nazareth. Maimonides has no problem recognizing that Jewish leaders were complicit in the crucifixion and "meted out fitting punishment". Is his interpretation flawed?

 

[Sephania]

If that is true why are the gospels all in agreement that the Roman crucified him? It just doesn't make sense. Is this saying that the Sanhedrin crucified him?


This type of article and the posting of it here says just one thing to me, if Mel Gibson can't be proved of anti-semitism let's find something by the Jews to incriminate them from their own mouths. Crucifixion is not Torah.

 

[Clann Donald]

Jesus does show up in various versions of and places in the Talmud. However, it is true that the Jewish people had to speak about Jesus and Christians in code language.

CORRECTION...

Yep, I'm not beyond error, and I made a mistake. It seems to me more honorable to confess our mistakes than to celebrate our triumphs. I was in too much of a hurry, and I did not take the time to read that link I posted. I only read the Talmud passages and did not read the commentary. What can I say... LOL... I am having a healthy laugh at myself right now!

Nonetheless, I used a Soncino Talmud program to search for Jesus and the critical notes are very useful.

As far as other websites, here's a radical one that has some problems, but still interesting: http://stormfront.org/jewish/talmud.html

And here is one from some Chabad gentiles who celebrate the Talmud's negative discussion of Jesus: http://www.noahide.com/yeshu.htm

Mistakes I do make, and I am happy to admit it when I make them.

 

[Hix]

em....CD you do know that is the exact same website as I posted up there right? And you do know its purpose is to prove that Jesus is not in the Talmud, right? I mean, you read it and all lol. The quotes is has are mostly out of context or changed attacks on the Talmud that can easily be found on the internet.

None of these people fit Yeshua, not by name, by date, by practises or ANYTHING. To say otherwise is blatant anti-semitism.

Shalom and G-d bless
~Hix~

 

[OrthodoxTexan]

None of these people fit Yeshua, not by name, by date, by practises or ANYTHING. To say otherwise is blatant anti-semitism.

Maimonides was an anti-semite?

 

[Sephania]

Why was this thread started anyway?

 

[simchat_torah]

http://talmud.faithweb.com/articles/jesus.html

Uhh... clan donald, Did you read the website you posted here? You do realize that the website you posted goes to great lengths to prove Y'shua is not in the talmud, right?

 

[Clann Donald]

Yep...

To Hix and simchat_torah, and everyone else...

I made a mistake and am happy to admit it. It seems to me more honorable to admit our mistakes than celebrate our triumphs. Please go back and read my edited post with corrections.

See especially the Chabad gentiles who celebrate the Talmud's insulting of the Christian Jesus: http://www.noahide.com/yeshu.htm

PAX

 

[Oblio]

Why was this thread started anyway?

The author of the article is an Orthodox Christian and this is the Orthodox forum at CF. Looking at the preamble to the article:

If armies of Jewish and Christian scholars insist on arguing about Mel Gibson's explosive movie "The Passion of the Christ," it would help if they were candid and started dealing with the hard passages in Jewish texts as well as the Christian scriptures.

We see that it is pertinent WRT to the Passion movie about to be released.

 

[ShirChadash]

Yes, let's stop [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-footing around, shall we? Let's get to it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by: OP

If armies of Jewish and Christian scholars insist on arguing about Mel Gibson's explosive movie "The Passion of the Christ," it would help if they were candid and started dealing with the hard passages in Jewish texts as well as the Christian scriptures.



IF -- IF there are indeed anti-christian and anti-Jesus statements and teachings in Judaism and in Talmud, what more could you expect from a group of people who have, over the years/ages/centuries since Yeshua died,
been targeted
hated
mistreated
abused
lied about
and even exterminated in Yeshua's name and by the very people who claim Yeshua is a loving God Whom the Jews must embrace?


I mean really. We set up stumbling blocks to Jews coming to faith in Yeshua, their own Messiah, by doing everything we can to take the Jewishness OUT of faith in Yeshua... and then we hate, abhor, lie, maltreat, condemn and seek to destroy a group of people with whom our GOD is in love, because they won't believe us when we say He loves them. And my, aren't we so right for taking the Jews to task for speaking up against the One in whose name we have done these things?

 

[Oblio]

Yes, let's stop [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]-footing around, shall we? Let's get to it...

You can get to it if you want, but not in the Orthodox forum.

Thanks,

Oblio
Christian Forums Moderator - The Ancient Way: Orthodox Christianity