• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,452
1,989
Washington
✟255,989.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married

Perhaps the problem is with your argument (or lack thereof), not that it's being lost. So far, your posts have been random and scattered, and some (most?) of which are not based on Christian doctrine, beliefs, or practices. For example, your above "what if" scenario of Adam not being responsible for the fall but his grandson instead is not a Christian doctrine, belief, or practice. It should be taken to a discussion forum, not an apologetics forum. It is not in line with this forum's SoP, which you continue to violate.
 
Upvote 0

withwonderingawe

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Sep 4, 2015
3,592
510
72
Salem Ut
✟184,049.00
Gender
Female
Faith
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican

Perhaps deep down you can see the flaw in your thinking and that's why you refuse to answer the question?
 
Upvote 0

BigDaddy4

It's a new season...
Sep 4, 2008
7,452
1,989
Washington
✟255,989.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Perhaps deep down you can see the flaw in your thinking and that's why you refuse to answer the question?

No, I refuse to answer the question for 2 reasons: 1) It's a non-sensical question that is not based on any Christian belief, only heresay based on another MORMON's incorrect assumption that it was and you ran with it; and 2) it is against this particular sub-forum's SoP to pose such questions.

Therefore, I suggest that you pose the question in another sub-forum like the "Debate Non-Christian Religions" or "Christianity and World Religions" forums and see what response you get.
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,815
1,923
✟990,406.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married

You have asked a lot of good questions and brought up some interesting alternatives.

When talking with nonbelievers about the Garden scenario: I do not press the concept of taking it literally, but go over the message.

The New Testament writers speak of Adam and Eve as being real people and not allegorically, so should we trust their insight?

Who parented (or programmed) Adam and Eve to adult maturity (knowing the meaning of words, knowing how to name the animals, knowing how to treat each other, knowing how to tend the garden)?

Was God a really good parent to Adam and Eve?

How could it be fair for Adam and Eve to negatively impact the rest of us, if they were not the very best representatives we could possibly have?

If I felt I could have done better than Adam and Eve, than has God treated me unfairly, by not putting me a Garden type scenario?

You make a big deal of the fact we have after they leave the Garden: “Gen 4: 1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain…”, but we do know it was not a virgin birth, so does the fact we do not have it expressly said earlier “they had sex”, mean they did not have sex earlier?

Christ’s crucifixion was foreordained, so does that mean everything was foreordained or could somethings just be foreknown by God but not made to happen that way by God (some limited free will acts by man)?

I with my limited knowledge of man could tell God before placing man in the Garden situation: “Man will eventually sin under his own power.” So does that mean God made Adam and Eve to sin?

Sin was inevitable, but was sin also necessary?

Is sin man’s big number one problem or is the problem; getting mature adults to humbly accept God’s charity (Love/mercy/grace/help) in the simple act of humbly accepting God’s forgiveness as pure charity?

Since Adam and Eve sinned with the “nature” they had would our nature have to change in order for us to sin?

Adam and Eve’s sin brought about some curses and hardships, but being disciplined hurts while going through it, but if done with Love and correctly accepted should it not benefit the child?

Is death in and of itself “bad”?

If we understand the objective, was the garden scenario a lousy (impossible) place for mature adults to fulfill their earthly objective?

Would you prefer to be in a place where your eternal close relationship with God was dependent on your personal ability to obey (the Garden) or be in a place where your eternal close relationship with God was dependent on your humbly accepting His charity (where you are now)?
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
Would the original sin be retroactive? Would everyone living suddenly be deemed sinful?

Do not imaging anything else, such as sex, which plays no role in this case. Only focus on the nature of punishment of sin:

In the OT time, the punishment of a sin could last for several generations. This is clearly stated in many commandments in the OT. So, the punishment of sin of father will be passed down to (innocent ?) offsprings.

Adam sinned and is punished. It is only reasonable that God would treat all his offsprings (born before and after his sinful act) as sinful people and be punished the same way all together. This action is not retroactive, but is proactive. Everyone got kicked out of the Garden is sinful because of Adam's sin.

The rest of imaginations are not relevant to this issue.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
There is an atheist website called losingmyreligion.com and they have an Essay called;
Why Christians must believe that babies should be killed, by Emery

.......Most Christians believe babies that die go to heaven.

This is wrong.
So, the rests are all wrong.

When a baby died, he goes back to what he was and to where he came from.
 
Upvote 0

juvenissun

... and God saw that it was good.
Apr 5, 2007
25,452
805
73
Chicago
✟138,626.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married

You are absolutely right. God creates man (Adam) as a perfect being.
You know the rest of the story.
 
Upvote 0

Qwertyui0p

Active Member
Dec 20, 2019
266
71
42
New South Wales
✟48,804.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Private
Regardless if most Christians believe babies who die automatically go to heaven, I am not aware of any verse in the Bible that says so.
 
Upvote 0

bling

Regular Member
Site Supporter
Feb 27, 2008
16,815
1,923
✟990,406.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
I would think it would depend on what they would have chosen if they'd grown up
Where they supposed to have grown up in some "original plan A"?
Why did God allow them to die?
Think about it: You are saying God can fairly/justly send to hell an unborn child who has never sinned or done anything wrong under your understanding of a God who is Love itself, do you really feel that way?
 
Upvote 0