The original replacement theology

n2thelight · May 21, 2014

Old Timer said:
That is why I don't believe what men say.. I believe what the Lord says.. in His word.

So if you can find me anything in the word of God which clearly teaches that the Israel of the bible is most Christian nations today, as you claim.. then that would obviously be welcome..

Otherwise it's obvious that your word is no match for His..

Jeremiah 31:31 "Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:"

Jeremiah 31:32 "Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:"

Now God divorced Israel,however He will take her back,my question to you is ,will God have two wives,because as we well know,the Church is the bride...

Jeremiah 3:8 "And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also."

And if the Church is the Bride,Israel has to without a doubt,be the Church......

And that's the best you can do,please!!!!!!

Interplanner · May 21, 2014

OT is right to object to Christian nations. But there are several lines of arguments (not "proof texts") that:
there is a new people as workers in God's vineyard,
that it is both Jew and Gentile,
that there never has been an identification of these workers with any nation including Israel,
that even Isaac's conception is a key exception to putting the race of Israel on a pedestal, etc.

Gal 3 and Rom 9 in particular simply crumble apart if these underlying principles are misunderstood. So, yes, I believe what God says. But I have concluded that what he says is not futurist D'ism.

Old Timer · May 21, 2014

n2thelight said:
And that's the best you can do,please!!!!!!

I know, the church is nothing new actually.. just the same ol same ol..

Interplanner · May 21, 2014

Futurist D'ism believes the church was a surprise, a plan B, out of nowhere, parenthesis.

The OT and NT together say it was the plan all along before and after Abraham was on the scene. Gal 3.

Judaism is with futurism and D'ism on this one.

Old Timer · May 21, 2014

Interplanner said:
Futurist D'ism believes the church was a surprise, a plan B, out of nowhere, parenthesis.

Oh how sweet.. you can't refute the simple truth so now you resort to lies..

Wouldn't expect anything more from you interplanner.

Interplanner · May 21, 2014

Ryrie, Walvoord, Scofield, Pentecost. I am not 'refuting' a simple truth, I'm listening closely to what these guys and their followers have said as they scramble to organize the Bible without Gal 3.

That's why they fumble the kingdom of God so badly. They think it was the free, independent state of Israel offered, as though the crucifixion might not even have happened. Just think about it; they are quite sure the nation of Israel would go on in perpetuity, and the worship system and sacrifices, and the Gospel would never have had to happen, to "fulfill" Judaism. Why does that sound so much like...Judaism!

But as far as the redeemed community being of all nations, that goes back to Eden after the screw up.

Old Timer · May 21, 2014

And yet after all that the Spirit had not yet been given, for Christ was not yet glorified..

Is that what you're trying to avoid now with the lies interplanner?

The simple truth that the Spirit had not yet been given.. and how that it's impossible that the church is nothing new.. just the same ol same ol..

n2thelight · May 21, 2014

Old Timer said:
I know, the church is nothing new actually.. just the same ol same ol..

You still did'nt answer the question

If Israel is not the Church,will God have two wives?

n2thelight · May 22, 2014

Interplanner said:
OT is right to object to Christian nations. But there are several lines of arguments (not "proof texts") that:
there is a new people as workers in God's vineyard,
that it is both Jew and Gentile,
that there never has been an identification of these workers with any nation including Israel,
that even Isaac's conception is a key exception to putting the race of Israel on a pedestal, etc.

Gal 3 and Rom 9 in particular simply crumble apart if these underlying principles are misunderstood. So, yes, I believe what God says. But I have concluded that what he says is not futurist D'ism.

How can the Christian nations not be the chosen of God,it is through these that the Gospel has been spread throughout the world...How can people not see this?

Old Timer · May 22, 2014

n2thelight said:
You still did'nt answer the question

If Israel is not the Church,will God have two wives?

Depends upon your view of the Godhead..

The Lord Jesus Christ is the KING of Israel and He is the HEAD of the church which is His body.. and yes, His future bride to be.

If we look at the example in scripture of Abraham sending His eldest servant to find a bride for his only begotten son Isaac.. we can clearly see Rebekah being the bride of Isaac which would be a type of the church and Isaac of course a type of Christ..

Abraham on the other hand was married to Sarah who was barren.. a wondrous picture of Israel no doubt..

ANYWAY...

What's that have to do with the simple biblical fact that the Holy Spirit had not yet been given as Christ had not yet been glorified?

Old Timer · May 22, 2014

The ancient OT story still speaks miraculously today as it reveals that the the church is still on its journey toward where Isaac is... and remember, Isaac was comforted by his wife after the death of his mother, Sarah.. Abraham's wife..

Then what happened afterward...

Abraham married again and had many offspring..

This is a picture of Israel's restoration in the time of the end when they actually do believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.. and are saved.

In that Day... the Day of the LORD, the Day of Jesus Christ..

Interplanner · May 22, 2014

But Keturah's children are never celebrated like Is 54:1+, which is used in Gal 4. The barren woman is Sarah with the miracle. The married woman is Hagar without a miracle.

You are ramming physical descendancy far in to the future, when the whole thrust of the NT is away from it. You are substituting a golden age on earth for Israel when all of this is about the mission of God to the ends of the earth with the Gospel. 53:12, 56:3, 8

Notice the proximity of the two woman imagery to the Gospel in its brightest OT form! The imagery is the excited cry immediately after it!

Douggg · May 22, 2014

Interplanner said:
But Keturah's children are never celebrated like Is 54:1+, which is used in Gal 4. The barren woman is Sarah with the miracle. The married woman is Hagar without a miracle.

You are ramming physical descendancy far in to the future, when the whole thrust of the NT is away from it. You are substituting a golden age on earth for Israel when all of this is about the mission of God to the ends of the earth with the Gospel. 53:12, 56:3, 8

Notice the proximity of the two woman imagery to the Gospel in its brightest OT form! The imagery is the excited cry immediately after it!

Inter, the stumbling stone for the preterists is that Israel the nation descended from Jacob is central to the end times universal prophecies.

Jesus's return to the Mt. of Olives in Jerusalem in Zechariah 14 is to rescue the Jews, who will have become Christians then.

In the first century, the mystery of God was how He brought the Gentiles to Jesus into the new humanity.

In the end times, the mystery of God is how He will bring Israel, the Jews, to Jesus into the new humanity.

You can't see that?

That's why Jesus is coming to rescue the Jews in Jerusalem.

Old Timer · May 22, 2014

Anything but that Douggg

Old Timer · May 22, 2014

Why is there such a problem with the LORD saving Israel in the end?

There's a few simple reasons which I can think of.. although I'd like to hear any reason why the Lord cannot or will not save Israel in the end..

n2thelight · May 22, 2014

Old Timer said:
Why is there such a problem with the LORD saving Israel in the end?

There's a few simple reasons which I can think of.. although I'd like to hear any reason why the Lord cannot or will not save Israel in the end..

From that prospective,why won't God just save everybody in the end?

Old Timer · May 22, 2014

n2thelight said:
From that prospective,why won't God just save everybody in the end?

Two things come to mind..

The Lord Jesus Christ alone has already saved every last man in Adam from the first death.. because every last man in Adam shall be raised from the dead bodily.. iow, both the righteous and the wicked are raised from the dead.. and if the wages of sin is death.. then Christ died not for our sins only, but for the sin of the world.

I understand that you have a problem with the bodily resurrection although that is what the scriptures teach.

Secondly.. Because Jerusalem is the city of the Great King and WHERE the Lord shall reign as King over ALL the earth in that DAY..

You know what DAY I'm talking about...

Old Timer · May 22, 2014

You also avoided the simple question..

Is there something wrong with the LORD delivering Israel in the end?

WHY is there a problem with that for so many people?

riverrat · May 22, 2014

Old Timer said:
You also avoided the simple question..

Is there something wrong with the LORD delivering Israel in the end?

WHY is there a problem with that for so many people?

Maybe the word that applies here is antisemitism.

Old Timer · May 22, 2014

riverrat said:
Maybe the word that applies here is antisemitism.

Certainly something to consider knowing that the Lord Himself told us plainly that they shall be hated of all nations for His name's sake..

Last time I checked, that was the real gospel.. not the make believe one.

The original replacement theology

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