The origin of....EVERYTHING

[pyro214]

*I'm looking for constructive feedback on how to better my thoughts...they are debatable"
(this is not another is God real or not, its my thoughts leading up to that conclusion we should discuss.

I apologize for the size of this conclusion, feel free to only analyze one of the three sections separated by large gaps.


"God isn't real" is a statement that cannot be factually said.

People have mentioned that i cant say space goats aren't real...its true. Humans don't know everything.

-Although i personally see logic in there being a God.
-Others may see there is logic in energy always existing.
-Lastly some may simply state there is no God, we just havn't solved this phenomenon yet.

I think these are the 3 most common answers people will come up with, non of which we can say are wrong.

The way "I" see it is it doesn't matter how complicated it is.
To me it seems more likely for a "God" to have always existence rather then
matter/ energy to have always existed. This is considering that God is superior to science, and would not need a creator.
Maybe, although it is unproven, energy can be transformed into matter (E=MC^2), but then one is to ask where energy came
from. I believe it most logical to say energy came from God, not as an excuse...but as the most sound answer anyone will ever come up with.

It doesn't matter how much research we do, anyone who has common sense knows that no matter how much "nothing" you have at any given length of time will still be nothing.
You cant create particles, let alone the laws of science from "nothing". Something that is superior to science is the only explanation for how the universe began
(unless it never had a beginning). My opinion is that, that something could only be God.






Now which religion is right?
Hinduism...if u think that multiple "Gods" are possible, all controlling different things go for it.
It seems most reasonable to me that there was, is, and always will be just one "God"...
he may have other powerful allies (angels) or oppositions (devil) but hes still the one that has complete control.
Consider the following facts:

The maker for the very first "cause" is what i would define god as. "god" is the Origin of "everything".
God is interpretable at your own desire.
I believe that if there is a heaven after Earth, it would be created by a God that obviously cared about us.
If he cared about us, he surely would send a message on how to get to this heaven. And if he wanted to present the message,
a GOD would ensure a huge, worldwide impact....resulting in a high percentage of believers taking part in that religion
(which is why i consider either Christianity or Muslims to be the most accurate religion).
If God does not care about us then one would ask why we were created.
The other explanation would be that we were created by "chance" resulting in there possibly not being heaven or hell after death....still no harm in picking a religion.

Were left with the two most strongly populated and closely related religions in the world.
Muslims and Christians, both follow a similar book, similar characters, similar stories, etc...
Which is the right one is for you to decide.


What i think is that the Bible was copied and edited by a person nammed Muhammad, then renammed the Quran (Book of Islamic people).
The editing took place in such a way that Jesus would be left looking like a prophet and not the son of God.
For example:
The Bible says Jesus died on the cross and rose again. This message is what most would consider the center of Christianity.
John 3:16 is thought to be one of the most important verses in the Bible. God sent his son, for us, as a sacrifice so we could ask for forgiveness for our sins.
Once we get rid of our sins, we can live with God. People with sin cannot live with God and therefore must live without God, without happiness (hell).
The Quran, once again, has a similar story but instead of "Jesus dieing on the cross" an IMPOSTOR is put in his place.
This provides Muslims with the ability to say that Jesus never died on the cross for our sins.
Editing the Bible in a way to turn people from Christianity would be done exatcly like this.
Does this make sense chronologically? Yes, the Bible was COMPLETED 400 years before the Quran was made.
This would enable "Muhammad" the possibility to get a copy of the Bible and edit it in a way that would hide the true meaning of the Bible.
The Bible warns of religions like this, religions that would try deceive it. Satan wants to be God, whats a better way then to mimic the Bible?


Thats my thoughts at least
(wish i knew more about Hinduism :S)





Proof (is proof supposed to be possible)?
For God, what would be more meaningful... he makes people love him (no free will), they believe he is real after he shows them he has the power to do anything in the world and gives
them anything they ask for, OR they CHOOSE to follow him based on faith NOT because he can do some "magic tricks". Because of this i believe that God will never prove to
humanity, until he comes to Earth, that he is real...he will give us things to lead us to believe in him through faith, a book on how to do it, but nothing more. Although i
also believe that after we TRULY accept God and desperately need something from him (need, not want), he will give it to us. Heres a real life example:

During the summer my mom likes to sleep on the deck underneath a overhang on the side
(sort of a rectangle area on the side of a deck large enough to fit 3/4 of a queen size mattress).



My mom was in a stressful mood one day, before she went to bed she prayed to God and said that she was feeling very stressed with life and wanted to know that he was there
for her. (she has been a very faithful Christian and hard-working mom her whole life).

Later that night she was woken up by a small storm, she looked over and there was a blanket held between the her and the deck where there was no overhang.
This blanket was blocking the rain from hitting her. Through the blanket was a bright glare of light shinning through.
The figure behind it appeared to be my dad standing on a chair holding the blanket with a lattern in his other hand.

She feel back asleep and the next morning thanked my dad for putting up the blanket.
He said he never did such a thing. It then hit her that this was Gods sign to her that he was there for her. He sent an angel to protect her from the storm.
(The main purpose of the blanket was not to serve as a barrier to the rain but rather a message/symbol from God to say "its ok, im here for you")

Up to this point she had ALWAYS thought that angels were the size of cupid (shorter then a human).
Later that month she read in the Bible that angles are between 12-15 feet tall. the distance between the deck and the roof is ruffly 15 feet high!
Why is this important? If it was a "hallucination" or dream of some sort, her mind would of created the image based on what it knows. She had no doubt in her mind, at the time, that angels were cupid size (3-4 feet tall?)...yet when she saw it...it was 3+ times as tall. This would also be the one and only "hallucination" in her life. Is this all just a series of coincidences? possibly, but maybe not. I believe it, thats as far as it will go for any factual statement though.

Take into consideration: my mom had neck pains, was under stress, and was taking mild pain medication at the time. Therefore it is possible that this was a "hallucination" or dream, she says she knows 100% it was real but then again hallucinations/ dreams can be very very realistic. Its also possible that at a time in her life she passed by a picture with a tall angel on it, although she cant remember this ever happening...maybe it came back to hear during the hallucination/ dream? I'm stating the possibilities because it would be unfair to only support one side of the argument. Although i do see this side of the argument, opposition, as unlikely...it is "possible" given a series of coincidences. Despite this being 100% fictional or not, i still consider it an interesting story.
Take note that this is the only appearance of any supernatural thing she has seen in her entire life, id imagine it to be more then once if it were a medical problem?

Is this story enough to "prove" Gods existence?
Of course not, God wants people to find him through faith...and therefore he will never give something that can be used as hard proof/ evidence that he exists.

 

[gluadys]

Not really an analysis, just some nitpicking where you may be wandering away from the facts.

Maybe, although it is unproven, energy can be transformed into matter (E=MC^2), but then one is to ask where energy came
from.

I don't think you can say this is unproven. Also, you only need to ask where energy came from if you assume the universe had a beginning. That the universe has always existed (and therefore energy has always existed) is always a theological option.

So you only need to ask where energy came from if you assume that it was not always there.

Whether it is God or energy/matter or both that is eternal is one of the basic theological questions. For Christians it is God and God alone, but not everyone makes the same assumptions as us.

What i think is that the Bible was copied and edited by a person nammed Muhammad, then renammed the Quran (Book of Islamic people).

Did you know that Muhammad was illiterate? So he could not have read or edited the bible even if he did have a copy.

 

[Scotishfury09]

Pyro, very interesting post. I had thought along the same lines when trying to formulate my own idea of a proof to God's existence, but, like you already noted in the post, I don't think there will ever be a clear cut way to "prove" to someone that God exists and that our God is the one and only true God. If this proof were to come into existence it would be way too easy to be a Christian and would cease to be much of a choice. If this leads someone to Christ then that's all that matters.

Still a good post. Good job. =D

 

[pyro214]

Did you know that Muhammad was illiterate? So he could not have read or edited the bible even if he did have a copy.

interesting.
i can think of ways he could of still got the job done but i rather ask what is the average Christians theory about how the Quran came to be. I know muslims speak of the Bible in there religion, do we do the same for there book?...or we have no explanation. (its so wierd how theres so many similarities)

 

[pyro214]

Pyro, very interesting post. I had thought along the same lines when trying to formulate my own idea of a proof to God's existence, but, like you already noted in the post, I don't think there will ever be a clear cut way to "prove" to someone that God exists and that our God is the one and only true God. If this proof were to come into existence it would be way too easy to be a Christian and would cease to be much of a choice. If this leads someone to Christ then that's all that matters.

Still a good post. Good job. =D

thanks
and yes i agree, proving God is impossible...and never will be. If we prove that our God is right, it would defeat the purpose of having "faith", without us having to choose God through faith...humanity would be next to pointless.

 

[gluadys]

interesting.
i can think of ways he could of still got the job done but i rather ask what is the average Christians theory about how the Quran came to be. I know muslims speak of the Bible in there religion, do we do the same for there book?...or we have no explanation. (its so wierd how theres so many similarities)

The average Christian knows so little about Islam than any theory is probably not correct.

Muslims refer to both Jews and Christians as People of the Book and believe both received a revelation from God. They honour the same prophets as the Jews, notably Adam, Noah, Moses and David, and, of course, they honour Jesus as one of the prophets, but not as the Son of God.

While they believe that the Torah and the Gospel were true revelations from God, they also believe that the texts of both became corrupted over time and so the Qur'an is the only (and last) pure word of God.

Generally speaking, few Christian writings mention the Qur'an or offer any explanation for how it came to be. Most Christians writing about Islam simply recount what Muslims believe about its origin, namely that it was told to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel. Muhammad did not receive the whole Qur'an at once, but in a series of revelations over a period of about 20 years. Each revelation was imprinted so powerfully on his mind that Muhammad was able to recite it word for word to his followers and those among them who could read and write wrote the words on whatever was handy at the time. Later these scraps of writing were gathered together and became the Qur'an.

 

[pyro214]

Thank you very much for all this information gluadys (+reps/blessings). You seem to know a fair bit about both religions, why have you chosen being a Christian over being a Muslim?

While they believe that the Torah and the Gospel were true revelations from God, they also believe that the texts of both became corrupted over time and so the Qur'an is the only (and last) pure word of God.

wouldn't the 60k+ copies as well as the recently found sea scrolls prove the Bible to be unchanged?

Generally speaking, few Christian writings mention the Qur'an... it was told to Muhammad by the angel Gabriel.

wonder why the Bible would be "written through the breath of God" yet the Qur'an would be told by Gabriel.

Muhammad did not receive the whole Qur'an at once, but in a series of revelations over a period of about 20 years.
Each revelation was imprinted so powerfully on his mind that Muhammad was able to recite it word for word

i was surprised by this at first but it also wasn't uncommon at the time for people to memorize large pieces of the Bible (times have changed). Still amazing to memorize the entire Quran.

Each revelation was imprinted so powerfully on his mind that Muhammad was able to recite it word for word to his followers and those among them who could read and write wrote the words on whatever was handy at the time. Later these scraps of writing were gathered together and became the Qur'an.

This could also refer back to my vague theory i originally wrote...he could of memorized the Bible and told it differently to his friends. (i have lots of respect for Muslim people and i hope this doesn't seem degrade there religion but im just trying to lay out the possibilities).

 

[shernren]

Did you know that Muhammad was illiterate? So he could not have read or edited the bible even if he did have a copy.

Or at least, it is claimed that he was illiterate. I don't know much to say anything either way, but the possibility of fabrication must be kept ajar (if not fully open) all the time.

 

[gluadys]

Thank you very much for all this information gluadys (+reps/blessings). You seem to know a fair bit about both religions, why have you chosen being a Christian over being a Muslim?

Being raised a Christian helps a lot. I would need a powerful conversion experience to change to Islam or any other religion. But I have studied a good deal about Islam in interfaith work.

wouldn't the 60k+ copies as well as the recently found sea scrolls prove the Bible to be unchanged?

No, they could still say those copies were corrupted from the original. It's an article of faith with them.

i was surprised by this at first but it also wasn't uncommon at the time for people to memorize large pieces of the Bible (times have changed). Still amazing to memorize the entire Quran.

The Qur'an isn't anywhere near as long as the whole Bible. Maybe about the same length as the New Testament. It is still common for devout Muslims to commit it to memory.

This could also refer back to my vague theory i originally wrote...he could of memorized the Bible and told it differently to his friends. (i have lots of respect for Muslim people and i hope this doesn't seem degrade there religion but im just trying to lay out the possibilities).

I don't think he could memorize it without reading it. But he does seem to have been familiar with the teachings, if not the scriptures, of Judaism and Christianity. Sometimes he seems to misunderstand the teachings though. From the Qur'an one could get the impression that Christians taught a Trinity consisting of God the Father, Jesus the Son and Mary the Mother. Since the Christians he would know best would be the Eastern Orthodox, Coptic or Syrian Christians, for whom Mary is an important figure for prayer and devotion, that would be a natural error to make.

To Muhammad, the Trinity was not compatible with belief in one and only one God. Muslims do not even give God a name, since names distinguish individuals of the same nature--as "Peter" and "Paul" distinguish one man from another--and there is no other deity from which to distinguish God. So Muslims simply call God, God (Allah in Arabic).

I find a lot to admire in Islamic faith, and a lot to deplore in Islamic practice. But one could say that about most religions, including Christianity. What we do is often not in keeping with what we profess.

 

[pyro214]

thanks for clearning that all up

I like the difference between protestants and catholics...they both are the same type of religion(same God), but with a different interpretation of the Bible. I like this because it leaves me a decision, I know that im reading the right book, i just have to interpit it myself and the right religion will come to me through that.

i dislike how Islams and Christians have a similar/ heavily populated religious status but a different book/ God to follow. It makes people consistently second guess there own religion...when dealing with salvation/ burning in hell this is not a comfortable feeling.

 

[gluadys]

thanks for clearning that all up

I like the difference between protestants and catholics...they both are the same type of religion(same God), but with a different interpretation of the Bible. I like this because it leaves me a decision, I know that im reading the right book, i just have to interpit it myself and the right religion will come to me through that.

i dislike how Islams and Christians have a similar/ heavily populated religious status but a different book/ God to follow. It makes people consistently second guess there own religion...when dealing with salvation/ burning in hell this is not a comfortable feeling.

Yes, walking by faith is not guaranteed to be comfortable. It is always a risk, but one we have no choice about taking.