THE OLD, THE NEW

[GodsGrace101]

What do you think of the letter by Bishop Vergano' ??

If you don't know what it is, no need to reply.

 

[Michie]

Do you mean Archbishop Vigano? Which letter are you referring to? He writes them all the time,

 

[GodsGrace101]

Do you mean Archbishop Vigano? Which letter are you referring to? He writes them all the time,

Yes. Archbishop could be correct.
It's the latest one he wrote regarding the fact that he feels the changes in the church, re Vatican II, have harmed the church. He's basically blasting Pope Francis.

I was interested in knowing what "true" Catholics believe.
I've said from about 2015 that the church has changed, and rather drastically.
Any opinion?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Do you mean Archbishop Vigano? Which letter are you referring to? He writes them all the time,

This is all I could find on it:

 

[Michie]

Yes. Archbishop could be correct.
It's the latest one he wrote regarding the fact that he feels the changes in the church, re Vatican II, have harmed the church. He's basically blasting Pope Francis.

I was interested in knowing what "true" Catholics believe.
I've said from about 2015 that the church has changed, and rather drastically.
Any opinion?

“True” Catholics? Do you mean practicing Catholics instead? Do you have a link to the letter?

 

[GodsGrace101]

“True” Catholics? Do you mean practicing Catholics instead? Do you have a link to the letter?

Yes. Maybe practicing Catholics.
I'm told I'm Catholic, but it depends which era one is referring to....

 

[Michie]

Yes. Maybe practicing Catholics.
I'm told I'm Catholic, but it depends which era one is referring to....

Let me look at the video after I feed my animals. I will say while I think Vigano has been spot on in many things, but it appears to me that he is sort of making a career out of his increasingly unhinged commentary. I’ll get back to you in a bit..

 

[Michie]

Here is something you may be interested in @GodsGrace101. Getting ready to look at the video now.

Abp. Viganò: The post-Vatican II church has almost entirely eclipsed the Church of Christ - LifeSite

 

[GodsGrace101]

Here is something you may be interested in @GodsGrace101. Getting ready to look at the video now.

Abp. Viganò: The post-Vatican II church has almost entirely eclipsed the Church of Christ - LifeSite

This is exactly what he stated.
Will check out the link.

What I'm thinking about is:
Is this good or not?

I would love to see the church go back to being how it was at the beginning.
But it has made a lot of changes.
In trying to go back, however, (if that's even what it's trying to do) I believe we're losing our way.

 

[Michie]

This is exactly what he stated.
Will check out the link.

What I'm thinking about is:
Is this good or not?

I would love to see the church go back to being how it was at the beginning.
But it has made a lot of changes.
In trying to go back, however, (if that's even what it's trying to do) I believe we're losing our way.

@GodsGrace101
There is a lot of truth to what he says here. The “grandma’s lace” comment was uncalled for imo. There are those within the Vatican that are absolutely trying to upend Church teaching as well as tradition. While I do not see the Norvus Ordo as invalid I do find it suspicious that they are outright banning the TLM in many areas. Why can’t we have both?

They are laying out the welcome mat for those that oppose life and Church teaching at the PAL. And this is by personal invitation of the pope. He turns his head at those that are endorsing heretical teaching and rally for blessing same sex unions, etc. those that promised to uphold the teachings of the Church upon their vows are willing abandoning them in favor of worldly approval. The Church seems more concerned with the causes of the day instead of saving souls and protecting the flock. So while I don’t always agree with everything Vigano says, I think he is right to sound the alarm and telling us to stay alert.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I would love to see the church go back to being how it was at the beginning.
But it has made a lot of changes.
In trying to go back, however, (if that's even what it's trying to do) I believe we're losing our way.

Well, first and foremost we desire that all souls come to the truth of extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. We want to see hearts converted more than we want to see the Church shrink, but we also don't want to see the Church compromised because there are too many wolves in the ranks as +Vigano's "deep church" theory suggests.

 

[GodsGrace101]

@GodsGrace101
There is a lot of truth to what he says here. The “grandma’s lace” comment was uncalled for imo. There are those within the Vatican that are absolutely trying to upend Church teaching as well as tradition. While I do not see the Norvus Ordo as invalid I do find it suspicious that they are outright banning the TLM in many areas. Why can’t we have both?

They are laying out the welcome mat for those that oppose life and Church teaching at the PAL. And this is by personal invitation of the pope. He turns his head at those that are endorsing heretical teaching and rally for blessing same sex unions, etc. those that promised to uphold the teachings of the Church upon their vows are willing abandoning them in favor of worldly approval. The Church seems more concerned with the causes of the day instead of saving souls and protecting the flock. So while I don’t always agree with everything Vigano says, I think he is right to sound the alarm and telling us to stay alert.

Yes. This is how I felt.
I also got the feeling that it's an effort to attract more persons to church.
(and I doubt it would even work).
I also agree with you about the new Mass.
As to the Latin, I think it's just problematic - at least it is over here.
The older priests that could do this are a dying breed, and, although the new ones study latin, I'm not too sure they'd be comfortable doing the Mass in Latin - and, as you know, that's not the only difference. Aside from the fact that there are not sufficient priests even for the normal Mass.
I won't even get into that Pacha Mama thing or whatever it's called.
It was shown live and in full over here. It was very disturbing.

Anyway, not that I want to go on about this.
It's just that some Catholics refuse to accept the fact that the church has changed.
Seems very clear to me...

 

[GodsGrace101]

Well, first and foremost we desire that all souls come to the truth of extra Ecclesiam nulla salus. We want to see hearts converted more than we want to see the Church shrink, but we also don't want to see the Church compromised because there are too many wolves in the ranks as +Vigano's "deep church" theory suggests.

EENS is no longer believed by the church.
The church IS being compromised.
You believe what Vigano says is just a theory?

 

[Gnarwhal]

EENS is no longer believed by the church.
The church IS being compromised.
You believe what Vigano says is just a theory?

Yes it is. Though there are modernists who try to make it a more elastic statement than it is by claiming "we know where the Church is, not where it isn't." But the statement itself is still very much in effect.

Yes, the Church is being compromised. There have been radical traitors in the College of Cardinals for decades and they should be eradicated. I still weigh what Vigano says with caution because I don't know him and have no reason to swallow everything he's spoon feeding us. Why aren't other bishops who are just as conservative and traditional as him like Cordileone, Strickland, Burke, or even priests like Fr. Altman aligning themselves with Vigano's message?

 

[GodsGrace101]

Yes it is.

Yes, the Church is being compromised. There have been radical traitors in the College of Cardinals for decades and they should be eradicated. I still weigh what Vigano says with caution because I don't know him and have no reason to swallow everything he's spoon feeding us. Why aren't other bishops who are just as conservative and traditional as him like Cordileone, Strickland, Burke, or even priests like Fr. Altman aligning themselves with Vigano's message?

Who can know for sure.
Maybe it's for political reasons.
Maybe they just dislike going against the church.

Regarding EENS, I do believe we go by the CCC now.