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Not always.Dodged. Answer the question. What is the greater purpose? Aren't you concerned that in your search for truth you could cause others to fall? You state "whatever the truth is" Do you know? You claim to have been a YEC, and now it would seem you are an OEC and moving close to theistic evolution. I didn't intend for you to believe that you were to base your faith on other Christians, though it would seem you are doing the same with scientists.aeroz19 said:The greater point is to figure out where I stand and then to convince others of whatever is the truth. It isn't our business to base the faith of other Christians on something that is incorrect and something which God never intended. Faith could be dashed into pieces in this manner.
They deserve to know that the Bible is a literal interpretation of God's word. Less than that the Bible is false or at least cannot be counted a fully truthful, which begs the question? Who can claim which parts of the Bible are true and reliable.Well, if it isn't, then they deserve to know the truth.
Wait one second...so now we can't understand the Bible? Where exactly did you learn about Jesus? Somehow I am to understand certain portions of the Bible are interpretable but others aren't...some are reliable, others aren't? Who decides this? Science? If science is deciding your faith decicions, I guess that would be proof that evolution does equal atheism.
The Bible can be trusted. Our feeble attempts at understanding it cannot.
You're right, and taken as a literal interpretation you have all you need not only to understand God's intention for you in this world but also how to attain salvation.The
Bible
does
not
leave
everything
to
blind
faith!
uhhhh yes.Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand lemme guess!
All humans are utterly wicked and flawed and helpless without God.
For all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.
So are you telling me that if you sin just before the rapture you aren't going to heaven? Or that you can't be used by God? ever heard of Aiken?This does not only apply to salvation. Even if we are saved, but not in the will of God, our lives are destined for utter failure and destruction, and cannot be used for good. Everthing we do will be in selfishness and therefore will be harmful to others and the world.
Amazing, you mean some people are real nice but they won't end up in heaven? Wow! Doesn't change their fate.This doctrine, however, does not match up with the real world. Look at all the people who contributed to the world and made it a better place to live in, and they were NOT in God's will (many being atheists, agnostics or other faiths).
Define good. Are you telling me that you would put faith in a sin ridden world because it's called science instead of the Bible when it's called God?Good things can come from those who are faithless. This is a lesson all should learn.
The Bible teaches that all things were created in 6 days...how much younger can you get?Right, so if the Bible doesn't teach YEC what business have we to say that it does? We will be causing many to fall if YEC is not true.
That's right; He allows humankind to figure out the truth eventually.
But not a lie that He tells Himself...w81minit said:Read Mark 4:12 and 1 Kings 22:20-23
Please do not respond again until you do. I have quoted them in this thread for easy reading. They both indicate that God is more than willing to let you believe a lie.
Indeed, first they make their God into a liar, then they get insulted by it!Arikay said:Anyone else notice that so far (still going through the thread) creationists can't scientifically backup claims that the earth is very young?
Lots of "god did it" and hand waving when its mentioned that not only is that not scientific, it turns god into a liar. And then off topic stuff.
From Doooowwwwnn Tooowwnn! Swish!!! Got my Basketball theme working t'nite.bevets said:It is apparent that Darwin lost his faith in the years 1836-39, much of it clearly prior to the reading of Malthus. In order not to hurt the feelings of his friends and of his wife, Darwin often used deistic language in his publications, but much in his Notebooks indicates that by this time he had become a materialist (more or less = atheist). ~ Ernst Mayr
(Darwins's notebooks) include many statements showing that he espoused but feared to expose something he perceived as far more heretical than evolution itself: philosophical materialism -- the postulate that matter is the stuff of all existence and that all mental and spiritual phenomena are its by-products. ~ Stephen Jay Gould
What does this mean?
Macro evolution is not observable.
Christians are fallible. I have already explained that theistic evolutionists prefer atheist mythology over sound biblical interpretation.
Please explain how well trained scientists reject evolution.
Nathan Poe said:Even I have more respect for God, and I don't even believe in Him...
The one has nothing to do with the other.aeroz19 said:That isn't reason enough to think that God would cause all the evolutionists and non-Godly scientists to be totally deceived. If you recall, a lot of the scientists who challenged and disproved the Church's fallicious doctrines were Christians. Remember when the Catholic Church thought that the Bible said the sun orbits the earth? Guess all those people were also being deceived too, eh?
Not to compare myself with him, but so was Martin Luther.Tachocline said:Well you are at odds with many theologians over the last 200 years where the 'God is a deceiver' excuse (er philosophy) is an anathema. Bad philosopy & bad theology.
bevets said:It is apparent that Darwin lost his faith in the years 1836-39, much of it clearly prior to the reading of Malthus. In order not to hurt the feelings of his friends and of his wife, Darwin often used deistic language in his publications, but much in his Notebooks indicates that by this time he had become a materialist (more or less = atheist). ~ Ernst Mayr
(Darwins's notebooks) include many statements showing that he espoused but feared to expose something he perceived as far more heretical than evolution itself: philosophical materialism -- the postulate that matter is the stuff of all existence and that all mental and spiritual phenomena are its by-products. ~ Stephen Jay Gould
bevets said:What does this mean?
bevets said:Macro evolution is not observable.
This in no way invalidates that God will let you believe a lie.Nathan Poe said:But not a lie that He tells Himself...
I read them, now it's your turn.
Read this:
Romans 1:20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
And this:
1 Corinthians 14:33For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
What does this tell us?
1: God created everything, and we can learn about Him from His creation.
2: God's not out to trick us.
This doesn't fit well with a universe that is young but looks old, now does it?
If you read the thread from the beginning you would read that God is not a liar just cause you would prefer evolution over creation.Arikay said:Anyone else notice that so far (still going through the thread) creationists can't scientifically backup claims that the earth is very young?
Lots of "god did it" and hand waving when its mentioned that not only is that not scientific, it turns god into a liar. And then off topic stuff.
Nathan,Nathan Poe said:Indeed, first they make their God into a liar, then they get insulted by it!
Even I have more respect for God, and I don't even believe in Him...
bevets said:Evolution is not the same as athesim. Evolution is mythology that has been based on atheistic assumptions. The primary assumption is that our Creator is irrelevant when studying creation.
Sopharos said:Not irrelevent, just neither excluded nor included.
bevets said:What does this mean?
Sopharos said:It means agnosticism
At that point you ask, was the Genesis account Creation meant to be taken literally or allegorically?nyjbarnes said:So tell me, if science invalidates creationism and the Bibles account of it, how then can it stand in the face of Christianity and say that's it's purpose (whether originally intended or not) is not to disprove God?
I am sorry, I don't buy the evolution does not equal atheism.
Are you saying that God put fossils there in the strata? God made fossils?nyjbarnes said:And what you don't take into account or don't want to accept is that God could have created light and strata with the appearance of age. He certainly did it for the organisms of the earth, why not the earth itself?
Lonnie said:Is God relevant or not irrelevant? included or excluded?
Lonnie said:My position is that our Creator is relevant to creation events. Would you say that my position is right or wrong? How do you know?
bevets said:Probably, so far as I know, there is no professor of Hebrew or Old Testament at any world-class university who does not believe that the writer(s) of Genesis 1-11 intended to convey to their readers the ideas that (a) creation took place in a series of six days which were the same as the days of 24 hours we now experience; . . . Or, to put it negatively, the apologetic arguments which suppose the "days" of creation to be long eras of time, the figures of years not to be chronological, and the flood to be a merely local Mesopotamian flood, are not taken seriously by any such professors, as far as I know. ~ James Barr Regius Professor of Hebrew at Oxford University in England
aeroz19 said:At that point you ask, was the Genesis account Creation meant to be taken literally or allegorically?
That's right; your interpretation of the Bible could be wrong, because you are fallible!bevets said:Orthodox Christian doctrine maintains that the Bible is Reality and man is fallible.
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