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Just wandering if people here think having a Bastard child is acceptable or marriage before the child's birth is essential?
In the Hebrew/Jewish scriptures "unclean" does not necessarily imply fault of any sort but refers to what is acceptable for ritual purposes mainly in the temple.
You can be unclean for having your period, you can also be unclean for touching a dead body. These are things that have to happen. Someone has to bury the dead and women have their period.Exactly. Unclean simply meant you weren’t supposed to come into God’s presence which is sacred space.
You can be unclean for having your period, you can also be unclean for touching a dead body. These are things that have to happen. Someone has to bury the dead and women have their period.
Ties That Bind --- the Jewish ritual of preparing the body for burial is a tradition of sacred fellowship --- by Michelle Friedman
It is early morning when the call I dread but expect comes. Hastily, I dress in somber, practical clothing and rearrange my work schedule for the day. I know the routine--as a member of my synagogue's chevra kadisha, burial society, I have been through this sad drill before. But this time a cloud of disbelief hangs over me. I am going to prepare a friend for her grave. As I hurry up Amsterdam Avenue to the funeral home, the roar of the street disorients me. I feel disconnected from such vitality, such an embrace from the day. The sight of the other five chevra members who gather at the side of the door of the chapel with their stricken faces comforts me. We all knew the woman whose cancer-ravaged body lies below. We lived in the same neighborhood, watched our children tumble together in the playground, shared countless conversations.
Bypassing the old-world lobby with its regal moldings and marble floor, we descend a narrow staircase into a morbid basement emporium where the grim purpose of this place is all too clear. I try not to look, but my eye is invariably drawn to the tiny coffins; the delicately adorned, ivory-toned ones that could be jewelry boxes but I know await the death of a baby. Just a few steps take us onto cement flooring and we enter a small room whose function seems janitorial. It is dominated by a white slab of a porcelain table. The mais, the body, is wheeled in on a gurney and positioned next to the table. Carefully and tenderly, the six of us lift the body of our friend onto the cold, hard surface and begin our work. The procedure is a supremely respectful one. The mais is kept covered at all times. We make a drape of sheets before cutting off the hospital gown. Next, we remove all stigmata of final illness, indignity or unnatural intervention. The body will be returned to nature, delivered to the ground, without bandages or catheters. We, in the women's chevra, frequently perform half-manicures, taking off chipped nail polish and swabbing grime from beneath stiffened fingernails. We do not pass materials over the mais--all necessary items are handed around the side of the table. This body once housed a living spirit and our ritual honors that sanctity.
Conversation is minimal. Each of us hovers on the brink of tears. We rely on the ceremonial practicality of our task and the group's complicity to maintain composure. We confine speech to the practical; requesting materials, shifting limb positions, agreeing that we can go on to the next step. We wash the mais in a cascade of water poured in a continuous stream from buckets held, for the first time, overhead. Now we must dry and dress her. We pat the body with cloth, change the drape, and shake out the package of coarse linen burial shrouds; the tachrichim are trimmed with lace. The job of dressing the mais is difficult. We struggle with the body's dead weight as we pull on each garment and then wind and tie the closing ribbons. Ironic how these shrouds fasten with the same bows as the miniature kimonos used to dress newborns in hospital nurseries.
I remember how I was recruited for this task. A dozen years before, at the end of a synagogue service, one of the women who works alongside me today tapped me on the shoulder. "Michelle," she said. "We need people for the women's chevra. You're a doctor--you can do it." True, I had seen death during my professional training but still I harbored countless terrors of the grave. This was a different opportunity to confront and explore my fears. I agreed to try it out.
Chevra kadisha. Literally translated, sacred fellowship. The ancient religious obligation of burial derives from spare biblical verses concerning the proper disposition of dead criminals. Some chevras can trace their histories back hundreds of years. Each involves its own rituals and customs. One of ours is the knotting style we use to fasten the drawstrings. The six of us who comprise today's chevra group form pairs on either end of the set of ribbons. We wind, counting in Hebrew, our prescribed number of turns and form a half-bow. All the closures are done except one.
The plain pine coffin is ready. Sprinkled inside is a handful of soil from the land of Israel. We lower the body of our friend into the wooden box that will cradle her into the earth. We make final adjustments--straightening a crease, passing a mittened hand. The coffin cover is placed but not fixed. The chevra is still. Tears spill over as we recite a brief prayer asking for forgiveness for any indiscreet word, thought, or gesture any of us may have committed during our task.
Pallbearers now, we wheel the coffin into the crowded entry where a shomer, a watcher, sits, reciting Psalms. The body has been attended this way since the moment of death. Two women from the family of the deceased await us. We move the pine cover over so they can perform a last tender gesture, a final intimate rite for their sister. Holding hands, they wind and tie the ribbons of the open bootie. Ties of love, ties that bind the anguish of broken hearts so that healing can begin.
Some people might complain about the word Bastard being used but I just want to say this is Gods language so it can never be unclean so please respect that. The problem is Christians have been influenced by the heathens of this world and been persuaded to abandon Gods clean sacred language. Here are some verses:
Deuteronomy 23 2
''A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.''
hebrews 12:7-8
''If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.''
So God clearly wants children to enter into the world in a certain manner. Just wandering if people here think having a Bastard child is acceptable or marriage before the child's birth is essential? The world keeps pushing for more and more of Gods will to be eliminated,please bear in mind this ultimately is an issue of how adults and potential parents conduct themselves,not an attack on children so curious how the forum felt on this issue. Thanks.
Well I think it's very reasonable to judge people based on their behaviour.
Here are some verses:
Deuteronomy 23 2
''A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the Lord; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the Lord.''
Well I think it's very reasonable to judge people based on their behaviour.
if some jerk told me that I was unclean because I was having my period , I’d have to leave the room before he got slapped . Women have periods because we don’t go into heat like a dog would . Our ability to have sex isn’t coupled to our fertilityYou can be unclean for having your period, you can also be unclean for touching a dead body. These are things that have to happen. Someone has to bury the dead and women have their period.
That is all obsolete bunk.You can be unclean for having your period, you can also be unclean for touching a dead body. These are things that have to happen. Someone has to bury the dead and women have their period.
Hi Miggles, the institution of marriage was established by God before our progenitors fell, and the Lord confirmed the institution of marriage for us again in the NT.i think i read someplace in the Bible that God frowns upon the institution of marriage but will allow it with certain rules attached. which makes me wonder if God prefers humans to have children out of wedlock. i'd hate to think that's it but i do wonder.
i think i read someplace in the Bible that God frowns upon the institution of marriage but will allow it with certain rules attached. which makes me wonder if God prefers humans to have children out of wedlock. i'd hate to think that's it but i do wonder.
Exactly. Unclean simply meant you weren’t supposed to come into God’s presence which is sacred space.
Paul gave lots of bad advice.That is taken out of context. You are referring to 1 Corinthians 7, I think, where Paul wishes they would remain unmarried, unless they burn with lust. But the only reason was because of the persecution, and one is more able to focus on spreading the gospel if not focused on their spouse. He also says that if you do marry you have not sinned. Anything God "frowns" upon would be sin.
Paul gave lots of bad advice.
Paul gave lots of bad advice.
If this is truly the case, shouldn't every word of St. Paul's be immediately stricken from the Holy Writ?Especially when it came to women.
Some people might complain about the word Bastard being used but I just want to say this is Gods language so it can never be unclean so please respect that. The problem is Christians have been influenced by the heathens of this world and been persuaded to abandon Gods clean sacred language.
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