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funyun said:I've noticed a new trend on these boards, one which I hope has not taken flight in the apologetics or Creationism vs. Evolution communities in general, which is that Creationists seem to be learning (gasp!). That's right. It seems that the old PRATT lists have died down (at least temporarily) and have been replaced mainly by ID propaganda (on these forums, led by Wellman-- much, I'm sure, to our collective chagrin).
The Creationists seem to be evolving.
I personally draw quite a parallel between this new Creationist trend and modern bacteria, who have grown to become resistant to antiobiotics, due to our over-infatuation with the latter (Not to get off track, but a phenomenon only possible if evolution is correct). Creationists, using their amazing skills of deductive logic, may have finally realized that the old way of relentless PRATT rambling in an attempt to ware down the enemy, is failing. Thus, they have decided to take another shape, under a different name, employing a different stratagem.
This feeling of mine was brought to a head when in Wellman's Hawking thread Gladiatrix posted a link in which part of the title read "The New Creationism", the subject obviously being Intelligent Design. Aha, I said; I smell a rat. I wouldn't be surprised if this reaches to the highest levels of Creationist organization. I have a feeling pretty soon most of the well-known YEC groups will jump on the bandwagon and adopt their new mantra.
So what's so different about ID anyway? Well, so far, instead of basing all its argumentation on outdated evidence and laughable pseudo-science, ID seems instead to rely on the highly popular Argument From Authority coupled with out-of-context quote-mining (the latter being a technique originally learned and put to good use under IDers' old Creationist guise), whether it be Flew, Hawking, or some "super super smart" Christian evangelist who has "never lost a debate in his life except once, on a semantic technicality". This species is tricky, because though easy to spot, it is convincing enough to sway the minds of, say, 90% of the general population.
Of course, I hope I'm wrong. I hope this is all just in my mind and I'm paranoid and Wellman is an isolated incident. Then again, I have been seeing more and more articles in the newspaper and spots on TV about school boards validating ID, or school boards putting stickers on books saying "evolution is only a theory". Every week, it seems, I hear a new story straight from Alabama about some self-proclaimed scientific expert who only moonlights as a school board member and who "just wants their child to know there's more than one choice". We may see some serious court battles soon in this country.
It's seems to be a growing trend, but I don't know. I'd like feedback to know that I'm not alone, or better yet, that I am. Am I wrong or right? In any case, I wish Hume was still around.
Paul did indeed eliminate some stumbling blocks, inconveniences like dietary restrictions and liturgical complexities, but he replaced them with stumbling blocks composed of faulty reasoning and absurdities.Vance said:Which means people like myself and other devout Christians will have to continue to follow behind you and tear down the stumbling blocks to the Cross you have erected, the barriers which prevent the Gospel from being effective. We will have to continue to do the work as Paul did in the face of the judaizers who also created stumbling blocks, even if in our own humble corner. May God bless our work and I pray that as few souls as possible are lost due to the teaching of YEC'ism.
Well, I might become a Jew. Even given a literal six day creation, Christianity still strikes me as far-fetched nonsense.mjiracek said:To all you evolutionists:
Does it matter? If i could find incontrovertible evidence that God exists and that he made the earth in 6 days would you become a christian? honestly.
Nothing you are likely to say is likely to sway me, I think. I don't think you have the knowledge, the education, the experience or the intellect to move me a millimeter. Which is not to say I am immovable.Im not asking to be rude but would it change your mind? Probably not. The only thing i care about "proving" is that does the Bible say what i think it says. Meaning, when it says "day" it means day. I think it does. Ive looked into it and i believe thats what it means. we can argue about that if you want. But otherwise, nothing i say or show you will change your mind. Right?
It is very likely that the world will little note nor long remember what we say here. But who knows? A properly formulated idea, may like the butterflies wing, have an unpredictable and profound effect on the course of history.Also, does it matter? If we are a bunch of backwards folk who cares? Its our belief let us to them. Dont get so emotional over it if it doesnt really matter.
mjiracek said:"Nothing you are likely to say is likely to sway me, I think. I don't think you have the knowledge, the education, the experience or the intellect to move me a millimeter. Which is not to say I am immovable."
Why because im not a scientist? Why do i have to be learned in the WORLD to sway you on my faith. You reject it any ways. IF i had PHD's up the wazoo would that be better? NO becasue im a christian.
I guess the point is that God works on the heart regardless of what science or the worlkd says. He gets the job done no matter what. I cant prove his existence, he's God. Since i cant prove it to you i have no way of being able to convince you by your standards. Its sad but oh well. Im just supposed to witness for God, not prove him.
mjiracek said:Also, does it matter? If we are a bunch of backwards folk who cares? Its our belief let us to them. Dont get so emotional over it if it doesnt really matter.
Sorry, but it's true. Creationism has changed, and it seems like a lot of Americans are buying the disguise.funyun said:I've noticed a new trend on these boards, one which I hope has not taken flight in the apologetics or Creationism vs. Evolution communities in general, which is that Creationists seem to be learning (gasp!). That's right. It seems that the old PRATT lists have died down (at least temporarily) and have been replaced mainly by ID propaganda (on these forums, led by Wellman-- much, I'm sure, to our collective chagrin).
It's seems to be a growing trend, but I don't know. I'd like feedback to know that I'm not alone, or better yet, that I am. Am I wrong or right? In any case, I wish Hume was still around.
Exactly. Christian evolutionists have a lot of work ahead of them. Good luck.Vance said:Which means people like myself and other devout Christians will have to continue to follow behind you and tear down the stumbling blocks to the Cross you have erected, the barriers which prevent the Gospel from being effective. We will have to continue to do the work as Paul did in the face of the judaizers who also created stumbling blocks, even if in our own humble corner. May God bless our work and I pray that as few souls as possible are lost due to the teaching of YEC'ism.
Pete Harcoff said:It matters because you backwards folk have voting power which can directly impact science education*. And given that evolution is one of the cornerstones of modern biology and therefore plays a big role in areas like medicine and agriculture, such efforts to thwart science education could very well be slowing down the progress of mankind.
So yeah, it matters.
* Case in point: My own province has slowly removed almost all references to "evolution" simply to avoid controversy. There was an article about it and how a lot of students that go on to study biology don't learn much, if anything about evolution in public school.
consideringlily said:and the ignorance of science to the evidence of God.
consideringlily said:You conveniently ignore that many of the great scientific achievements were by theists. So having a religious affiliation does not disqualify you as a scientist.
consideringlily said:Either you are condescending to Creationists by comparing them to bacteria.
In which case if you are an indication of evos than you guys gotta a major problem with hubris.
consideringlily said:or
You are really insecure in your position and don't want to be challenged.
consideringlily said:I have seen one thread after another belittling the intelligence of Creationists. You guys really need to let some of the air out of your shirts.
I dont understand the premise of the question. My one vote? yes i do. I think the vote is the best part of a democracy. The person i was replying to was upset that because i believe in something different than he does .He is afraid my vote will out law evolution i guess. I never said that but thats what he thinks.michabo said:You think that a vote can affect history?
.
mjiracek said:Does it matter? If i could find incontrovertible evidence that God exists and that he made the earth in 6 days would you become a christian? honestly. Im not asking to be rude but would it change your mind? Probably not. The only thing i care about "proving" is that does the Bible say what i think it says. Meaning, when it says "day" it means day. I think it does. Ive looked into it and i believe thats what it means. we can argue about that if you want. But otherwise, nothing i say or show you will change your mind. Right?
mjiracek said:Also, does it matter? If we are a bunch of backwards folk who cares? Its our belief let us to them. Dont get so emotional over it if it doesnt really matter.
mjiracek said:Oh and FUNYUN, try not to be so arrogant until you graduate high school. No offence intended, but i dont spout off how great i am at history like you do about everything else. This is a board for discussion, not self glorification.
mjiracek said:I know lily thats my point. I cant "prove anything according to their standards. But i dont have to. Its funny that God has to pass their tests before they allow him to save them. I wish i could say here is the proof you need but i cant. God came once to earth but only a few believed him then even so i cant think of anything more substantial than that but JEsus aint comin a gain for a while
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