The New Nature

[newnature]

Our Nature will Become Evident From our Actions

The difference between the two Adam’s in our history is the need to be sure we are identifying with the right one. Understanding and acting upon who we are in Yeshua is the basis for successful growth and maturity. Our daily performance is often marked by personal failure and disobedience, which disappoints us and disrupts the harmony of our relationship with Yahweh. In our attempts to understand the disobedience which so often disturbs our walk with Yahweh, are we unwitting victims of our old nature. Our old nature which we have inherited from the disobedience of the first Adam, is like a big black dog. But, through the redemptive work of the second Adam “Yeshua,” Yahweh put a new nature in us when we got born anew, and that new nature is like a big white dog. Whenever we involve ourselves in worldly thoughts or behavior, we are feeding the black dog. Whenever we focus our mind and activities on matters of the new nature, we are feeding the white dog. The dog we feed the most will eventually grow stronger and overpower the other.


Yahweh has not given us the power to imitate him, he has made us partakers of his nature, so that we can actually be like him. He did not say, “Here are my standards, now you measure up.” Yahweh knows we cannot solve the problem of the old nature by simply improving our behavior. He must change our old nature by infusing in us a new nature and makes us a partaker of his nature; we will be able to change our behavior. This is the experience of everyone who is the subject of the grace of Yahweh, and has received the gift of the new nature as the sign of Yahweh’s justification. Not the experience of one man in two successive stages, but the co-existence of the two experiences in the one man at the same time. When we choose to walk according to the old nature in which we were trained before becoming born anew, such behavior violates our new nature. When this happens, we feel convicted because our behavior is not in keeping with who we really are. In fact, if a person does something which they know is morally wrong, but feels no conviction, we should seriously doubt that that person is a child of Yahweh. Conviction is another evidence of the presence of the new nature.


We commit sin when we willfully allow ourselves to act independent of Yahweh, as our old nature did as a matter of course. When we function in this manner we are violating our new nature. So why do we still react as if our old nature is still in control of our behavior? Because, while we served under it, our old nature trained and conditioned our actions, reactions, emotional responses, thought patterns, memories and habits in our brain. During the years we spent separated from Yahweh, our worldly experiences thoroughly programmed our brain with thought patterns, memory traces, responses and habits which are alien to the nature of Yahweh. Our brain still generates humanistic thoughts and ideas, and our old nature is that part of us which was trained to live independent of Yahweh before we were born anew, ignorant of his ways and determined to succeed and survive by our own abilities. When we became born anew, Yahweh infused in us a new nature, but he did not press the “clear” button in our brain. So while our new nature desires to live dependent upon our Father, our old nature persists in suggesting ways to live independent of Yahweh.

 

[coons786c]

Our Nature will Become Evident From our Actions

The difference between the two Adam’s in our history is the need to be sure we are identifying with the right one. Understanding and acting upon who we are in Yeshua is the basis for successful growth and maturity. Our daily performance is often marked by personal failure and disobedience, which disappoints us and disrupts the harmony of our relationship with Yahweh. In our attempts to understand the disobedience which so often disturbs our walk with Yahweh, are we unwitting victims of our old nature. Our old nature which we have inherited from the disobedience of the first Adam, is like a big black dog. But, through the redemptive work of the second Adam “Yeshua,” Yahweh put a new nature in us when we got born anew, and that new nature is like a big white dog. Whenever we involve ourselves in worldly thoughts or behavior, we are feeding the black dog. Whenever we focus our mind and activities on matters of the new nature, we are feeding the white dog. The dog we feed the most will eventually grow stronger and overpower the other.


Yahweh has not given us the power to imitate him, he has made us partakers of his nature, so that we can actually be like him. He did not say, “Here are my standards, now you measure up.” Yahweh knows we cannot solve the problem of the old nature by simply improving our behavior. He must change our old nature by infusing in us a new nature and makes us a partaker of his nature; we will be able to change our behavior. This is the experience of everyone who is the subject of the grace of Yahweh, and has received the gift of the new nature as the sign of Yahweh’s justification. Not the experience of one man in two successive stages, but the co-existence of the two experiences in the one man at the same time. When we choose to walk according to the old nature in which we were trained before becoming born anew, such behavior violates our new nature. When this happens, we feel convicted because our behavior is not in keeping with who we really are. In fact, if a person does something which they know is morally wrong, but feels no conviction, we should seriously doubt that that person is a child of Yahweh. Conviction is another evidence of the presence of the new nature.


We commit sin when we willfully allow ourselves to act independent of Yahweh, as our old nature did as a matter of course. When we function in this manner we are violating our new nature. So why do we still react as if our old nature is still in control of our behavior? Because, while we served under it, our old nature trained and conditioned our actions, reactions, emotional responses, thought patterns, memories and habits in our brain. During the years we spent separated from Yahweh, our worldly experiences thoroughly programmed our brain with thought patterns, memory traces, responses and habits which are alien to the nature of Yahweh. Our brain still generates humanistic thoughts and ideas, and our old nature is that part of us which was trained to live independent of Yahweh before we were born anew, ignorant of his ways and determined to succeed and survive by our own abilities. When we became born anew, Yahweh infused in us a new nature, but he did not press the “clear” button in our brain. So while our new nature desires to live dependent upon our Father, our old nature persists in suggesting ways to live independent of Yahweh.

For a long time I was stuck in the Flesh, I would be up and down sinning with the same sin and repenting. Until Jesus gave me the revelation of what I must do. Now I set my mind on his word and faith and the things of God. Paul said we must transform from this world and have our minds renewed. He also said let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus. So I thank God for helping me thru this, now I have the mind of christ and am in total victory. Living and walking in the spirit.

 

[St_Worm2]

For a long time I was stuck in the Flesh, I would be up and down sinning with the same sin and repenting. Until Jesus gave me the revelation of what I must do. Now I set my mind on his word and faith and the things of God. Paul said we must transform from this world and have our minds renewed. He also said let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus. So I thank God for helping me thru this, now I have the mind of christ and am in total victory. Living and walking in the spirit.

What do you mean when you say that you are in "total victory" ..

Thanks!

--David

 

[coons786c]

What do you mean when you say that you are in "total victory" ..

Thanks!

--David

Well it means I overcame the sin that tormented me. It does not rule over me anymore. I am free from it. My mind is not bound by it, now it is free in Jesus Christ. The problem was me all along. We must set our minds on his word and have total faith in him. There are so many things in the world and distractions that can take us away from God. Sin does not rule over me anymore.

 

[InSpiritInTruth]

Our Nature will Become Evident From our Actions

The difference between the two Adam’s in our history is the need to be sure we are identifying with the right one. Understanding and acting upon who we are in Yeshua is the basis for successful growth and maturity. Our daily performance is often marked by personal failure and disobedience, which disappoints us and disrupts the harmony of our relationship with Yahweh. In our attempts to understand the disobedience which so often disturbs our walk with Yahweh, are we unwitting victims of our old nature. Our old nature which we have inherited from the disobedience of the first Adam, is like a big black dog. But, through the redemptive work of the second Adam “Yeshua,” Yahweh put a new nature in us when we got born anew, and that new nature is like a big white dog. Whenever we involve ourselves in worldly thoughts or behavior, we are feeding the black dog. Whenever we focus our mind and activities on matters of the new nature, we are feeding the white dog. The dog we feed the most will eventually grow stronger and overpower the other.


Yahweh has not given us the power to imitate him, he has made us partakers of his nature, so that we can actually be like him. He did not say, “Here are my standards, now you measure up.” Yahweh knows we cannot solve the problem of the old nature by simply improving our behavior. He must change our old nature by infusing in us a new nature and makes us a partaker of his nature; we will be able to change our behavior. This is the experience of everyone who is the subject of the grace of Yahweh, and has received the gift of the new nature as the sign of Yahweh’s justification. Not the experience of one man in two successive stages, but the co-existence of the two experiences in the one man at the same time. When we choose to walk according to the old nature in which we were trained before becoming born anew, such behavior violates our new nature. When this happens, we feel convicted because our behavior is not in keeping with who we really are. In fact, if a person does something which they know is morally wrong, but feels no conviction, we should seriously doubt that that person is a child of Yahweh. Conviction is another evidence of the presence of the new nature.


We commit sin when we willfully allow ourselves to act independent of Yahweh, as our old nature did as a matter of course. When we function in this manner we are violating our new nature. So why do we still react as if our old nature is still in control of our behavior? Because, while we served under it, our old nature trained and conditioned our actions, reactions, emotional responses, thought patterns, memories and habits in our brain. During the years we spent separated from Yahweh, our worldly experiences thoroughly programmed our brain with thought patterns, memory traces, responses and habits which are alien to the nature of Yahweh. Our brain still generates humanistic thoughts and ideas, and our old nature is that part of us which was trained to live independent of Yahweh before we were born anew, ignorant of his ways and determined to succeed and survive by our own abilities. When we became born anew, Yahweh infused in us a new nature, but he did not press the “clear” button in our brain. So while our new nature desires to live dependent upon our Father, our old nature persists in suggesting ways to live independent of Yahweh.

The old is flesh

The new is Spirit.

Romans 8:5
For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.

 

[St_Worm2]

Well it means I overcame the sin that tormented me. It does not rule over me anymore. I am free from it. My mind is not bound by it, now it is free in Jesus Christ. The problem was me all along. We must set our minds on his word and have total faith in him. There are so many things in the world and distractions that can take us away from God. Sin does not rule over me anymore.

I agree with your assessment of the new life in Christ (2 Cor 5:17), as long as you don't mean that you will never sin again. We finally have the power not to sin (a freedom we never had outside of Christ), and to always make that choice, but unfortunately we don't because of our fallen nature (that "newnature" mentioned in the OP) and the world and its distractions (that you mentioned above). But TBTG, if we do commit a sin, He is always there to forgive us (1 John 1:9) and restore us to full fellowship ..

Yours and His,
David

 

[Harry3142]

Our two natures involve much more than the performance of actions. They involve the motivations and desires which culminate in our actions. The motivations found in the sinful nature with culminate in the commission of sinful acts, and the motivations found in the new nature will culminate in the performance of righteous acts:

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

The old saying, "He did all the right things, but for all the wrong reasons," is important to us Christians. Do the motivations for what we say and do originate in the list included as 'the acts of the sinful nature', or do they originate in in the list included as 'the fruit of the Spirit'? Even as a poisoned tree cannot bear good fruit, a word or action which has as its source one of the motivations included in the acts of the sinful nature cannot be identified as righteous, even if superficially it might seem to be.

It is only when the origin of our words and actions is to be found in the motivations listed as 'the fruit of the Spirit' that those words and actions can truly be seen as righteous. And that is due to their impetus itself being righteous in nature. The soil that a tree's roots are in determines whether that tree's fruit will be safe or harmful. Likewise, in order for our words and actions to be righteous, the 'soil' which produces those words and actions must be the fruit of the Spirit.

 

[susanbb]

I like your post of "the co-existence of the two natures at the same time in one person". Most people don't understand the struggle between the old nature and the new creature in Christ will continue until death or the rapture.

 

[Foghorn]

I agree with your assessment of the new life in Christ (2 Cor 5:17), as long as you don't mean that you will never sin again. We finally have the power not to sin (a freedom we never had outside of Christ), and to always make that choice, but unfortunately we don't because of our fallen nature (that "newnature" mentioned in the OP) and the world and its distractions (that you mentioned above). But TBTG, if we do commit a sin, He is always there to forgive us (1 John 1:9) and restore us to full fellowship ..

Yours and His,
David

Amen bro!

 

[susanbb]

My sins were all forgiven on the cross. They were all future at that time. I don't have to ask forgiveness or be restored. It is a done deal.

 

[St_Worm2]

My sins were all forgiven on the cross. They were all future at that time. I don't have to ask forgiveness or be restored. It is a done deal.

Hi Susan, you make a good point and I should be careful about the words I choose when posting here (or at least do a better job explaining them). When I use the word "restore" in the case of a Christian, I do not mean from being "lost" again. The Scriptures are clear! We cannot lose our salvation (John 6:37-40; John 10:27-28) if we are truly saved. But the condition of our walk (our day by day relationship) with God changes because of (as you stated earlier in this thread) "the struggle between the old nature and the new creature in Christ". IOW, because we still choose to sin.

That said, I would like to hear a little bit more about why you believe Christians are no longer required to confess their sins and ask the Lord to forgive us of them, especially in light of passages such as 1 John 1:7-10, which was written to Christians.

Question, when you became a Christian, how (specifically) did that happen? Was confession of past sins and a willingness to repent of them any part of that process?

Thanks!

--David

 

[susanbb]

1 John is part of the doctrine to Jewish believers after the rapture.

Colossians 2:3 is doctrine to the body of Christ.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses. Col 3:13

When Jesus was raised by God the sins of all mankind were paid for and forgiven. If just one sin was left unforgiven, Jesus could not have risen. My sins were all in the future when Jesus died on the cross.

When I was saved, I knew that I was completely lost in my sins. The wages of sin is death. All my being sorry for them did not change anything. Nothing I could do could change my sinful state.

But then I heard the gospel. That Christ had already paid for my sins with his death. All I had to do was believe he had done this for me. It is a gift of God. Our only part is to receive it.

 

[St_Worm2]

1 John is part of the doctrine to Jewish believers after the rapture.

Hi Susan, there is much to discuss about what you've written, but let's start with your first sentence. Do you really believe this, that the Lord had the Apostle John write a letter in the 1st Century that was meant to be read and followed by no one except post-Rapture Jews thousands of years in the future, and if so, why?

Here is evidence to the contrary. Rather than post-Rapture Jews, here are just some of the many indications that 1 John was written to Gentile believers of the 1st Century.

1) Several of the early church fathers place the Apostle John at Ephesus during the time that 1 John is believed to have been written. There he is said to have had oversight of many of the Gentile churches in the surrounding region and it was to one or all of those churches that 1 John was no doubt addressed.

2) The primary purpose of the letter was aimed at exposing the false teachers of John's day and correcting their false doctrine (doctrine that led to the full-blown heresy of Gnosticism in the 2nd Century) .

3) Except for verse 3:2, there are no OT references or quotes in 1 John, something that other Epistles and Gospels written primarily to a Jewish audience are replete with.

4) The concluding sentence of the Epistle, "Little children, guard yourselves from idols", continues to suggest the same thing, that 1 John was written to Gentile, not Jewish believers.
​

Finally, how do you believe that post-Rapture Jews are saved? Is their salvation no longer based upon the same thing yours is, their sins no longer forgiven at the foot of the Cross? Why are they and they alone required to continue to confess and repent of their sins (after being judicially forgiven by God) if we are not?

Thanks!

--David

 

[Johnnz]

My sins were all forgiven on the cross. They were all future at that time. I don't have to ask forgiveness or be restored. It is a done deal.

Yeah!!! That is Good News.

Here is a quote from a Christian scholar and author, Mark Strom.

All sin, Paul believed, is an individual's choice to break faith with God by inverting the Creator-creature relationship (Rom 1:18-32). Paul uniquely located the problem within a person's pretension to autonomy and the subsequent rupture in relationship. … God justifies the sinner and cancels his identity in Adam for a new identity in Christ. So flesh and spirit do not indicate philosophical or moral categories for Paul, but alternate identities in relationship. According to Paul one who is in Christ is correspondingly in the Spirit and a slave of righteousness. This is a given. He or she is not in the flesh (Rom 8:9). The reverse holds for those in Adam - they are in the flesh and slaves to sin and death.

His footnote to 8:9 amplifies his argument.

"Throughout Romans 6-8, the NIV persistently renders sarx as "sinful nature" and frequently supplies the phrase "controlled by" for ‘en’ and ‘kala’. It thus gives the impression that Paul says believers have two natures: a fleshly nature and a spiritual nature. This is particularly irritating and misleading in 8:9, where Paul simply says, "However, you are not in the flesh but in the spirit, if the Spirit of God lives with you" (my translation). The NIV has "You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you."

"Once again, in Romans 6:20, the NIV unhelpfully supplies "the control of," thus tilting the meaning toward cohabiting moral natures and away from the contrast Paul is making between identities based on Adam or Christ.


[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Rom 5:10
For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life! NIV

We now belong to a new kingdom, God dwells with us by His Spirit, our bodies are His temple. We have the nature of our new parent, ‘Abba’ ‘Father’. That is our status. We are not some spiritually leaky, patched up, internally compromised being, always on the brink of offending a holy God. We are ‘born anew’, a ‘new creation’ transformed and energised by God’s Spirit. God has not abandoned His original template for humanity. Jesus as the Last Adam confirms our restoration as human beings, not as someone of a completely different order.

John
NZ

 

[mog144]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7665537-9/#post60880955

Read this concerning the two natures. I hope this better explains the nature of humankind. This should also explain how we have evolved into the creatures that we are today! We have become like gods.

 

[susanbb]

Yes, John was an apostle to Jews who believed Jesus was the Messiah.

And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Gal 2:9

After the rapture, where will believers find their doctrine? The body of Christ will be complete. The age of grace will be closed. The doctrine to the body of Christ will no longer apply.

Those who go through the tribulation will find their doctrine in Hebrews through Revelation.

 

[Foghorn]

Yes, John was an apostle to Jews who believed Jesus was the Messiah.

And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Gal 2:9

After the rapture, where will believers find their doctrine? The body of Christ will be complete. The age of grace will be closed. The doctrine to the body of Christ will no longer apply.

Those who go through the tribulation will find their doctrine in Hebrews through Revelation.

That's dispensationalism.

The bible teaches there is no way for anyone to get to heaven but through faith in Christ alone. This never changes.

 

[St_Worm2]

After the rapture, where will believers find their doctrine? The body of Christ will be complete. The age of grace will be closed. The doctrine to the body of Christ will no longer apply.

Those who go through the tribulation will find their doctrine in Hebrews through Revelation.

You said, "After the Rapture":

1) "The body of Christ will be complete".

But that's not true, it increases during the Great Tribulation (see Revelation 7:9-17 ... particularly v9, 13-14).
​

2) "The age of grace will be closed".

a) Where does the Bible teach this??
b) And if this is true, how are people saved during this period of time if not by faith?
​

Finally you wrote: "Those who go through the tribulation will find their doctrine in Hebrews through Revelation".

So now you're saying that it's not just 1 John that was written to post-Rapture believers only, its all of Hebrews - Revelation that we pre-Rapture believers should take scissors to?

I'm interested, who is teaching you all of this?

Thanks!

--David

 

[susanbb]

And the Lord commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear the Lord our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. Deut 6:24-25

And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the Lord our God, as he hath commanded us.

Righteousness for Israel was obtained by believing God and doing his commandments.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Rom 4:5

Righteouness for the body of Christ is by trusting completely in Jesus work on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins.

 

[St_Worm2]

Righteousness for Israel was obtained by believing God and doing his commandments.

But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Rom 4:5

Righteouness for the body of Christ is by trusting completely in Jesus work on the cross for the forgiveness of our sins.

So for the folks in the OT, do you believe that their salvation was obtained by faith or by works (by "believing" or by "doing")? It is one or the other.

"Abraham believed in the Lord; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness" Genesis 15:6
​

Susan, I also agree with Foghorn: "The bible teaches there is no way for anyone to get to heaven but through faith in Christ alone. This never changes". We look back in faith to the Cross to be saved, the believers of the OT looked ahead to it.

Yours and His,
David

"Abraham rejoiced to see My day,
and he saw it and was glad."
John 8:56​