The New covenant

[Jerrysch]

What Is The Relationship Of The Church To The New Covenant?

 

[Dispy]

The "new covenant (testament)" is not in force at this time. The Chruch, the Body of Christ, has no place in the new covenant that will be made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Jer.31:31-34) upon the 2nd coming of Christ.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[Tractor1]

The "new covenant (testament)" is not in force at this time. The Chruch, the Body of Christ, has no place in the new covenant that will be made with the house of Israel and the house of Judah (Jer.31:31-34) upon the 2nd coming of Christ.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

I agree.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[Dispy]

I agree.

In Christ,
Tracey

THANK YOU Tracey.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[Hedgehog]

I have always believed it is not in place also, but it is something I am studying and looking at and wondering about now.
Here are some of the reasons why:
I wonder what are we in right now then? We're not under the old covenant- dispensationalists would say we're under grace right now, but I no longer see Paul's mystery to be that there was a "new dispensation of grace"- I see his mystery to be about the revealing of what the Messiah was to do.

Also Jesus says at the table " this is the blood of the new testemant". Blood is what confirms an oath it says in Galations, chapter 3 is it? where it talks about how Moses confirmed the old covenant with blood also. Or is that in Hebrews?

Also I just saw in John yesterday : Jhn 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

I think he is refering to the new covenant.

I wonder if having the law written in hearts is the indwelling of the spirit.

I dont have the answer about " the house of Israel and the house of Judah part"
Aside from knowing that God is no respector of persons- and never was, He says the same thing several times in the OT. And that I believe why (ethnic) Israel was called arrogant by God several times in the OT is because they assumed it was their blood that made them "chosen".
The promise(eternal life- which was foreshadowed by the "land" promise)was made to Abraham and his Seed.(which is Jesus Galatians says)
Abraham would respresent the Israel part ( if Israel is really the people of faith-NOT ethnic Israel) and Jesus would represent the Judah part.

I really strongly feel like God has been trying to show people with " the light" that all these earthly things- rituals, tribes,etc.. have NOTHING to do with how you relate to/worship God- its ALL about your heart/spirit.

 

[Hedgehog]

Dispy, how does one see and believe God is no respecter of persons if he divides and seperates out groups?
I do not mean that in an arguemenative debating tone- I really honestly wonder what one sees " no respecter of persons" as meaning then.

 

[FreeinChrist]

What Is The Relationship Of The Church To The New Covenant?

Sorry, but I disagree witht hose that think we are not in the New Covenant.
Christ mediated a New Covenant at the cross - making a better sacrifice, and offered in a better sanctuary with better blood , and it is based on better promises. See Hebrews 8-10.


We are children of Abraham through faith in Jesus Christ.

Yes, I am dispensationist (if you are wondering) and I believe that Israel will turn to God just before the Second Coming, and I am premillennial. God will keep His promises. But we, the church, are in the New Covenant.

 

[Dispy]

Hedgehog:
A graceous God has always provided a means in which man could be saved/justified. That means was by believing/doing (BY FAITH what God required at that point in time of human history.

We know that prior to Noah that mankind did not retain God lin their heart, and God destroyed the inhabitants thereof; with the exception of Noah and his family.

In Genesis 9:1 we find that God blessed Noah and his sons and told them to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth.

When we get to Genesis 11 we find that mankind is still sinful and started to build a tower and stay in one place. The disobeyed God and God confounded their tongue in order to get them to scatter and replenish the earth. Also, God set those Gentiles aside and raised up Abram to take out a people of His own - Israel. Therefore God set the Gentiles aside, and if one that was a Gentile wanted to serve the true and living God, that one had to become a Jew (proselyte), and place themselves under the Laws of Moses. (This is a very brief history account.)

The Gentiles were considered by the children of Israel to be "unclean," "heathen," and referred to as "dogs."Even though there was a "middle wall of partition" between the Jew and Gentile, all mankind still had the same opportunity for salvation/justification. The proselyted Jew (Gentile) could receive all that same blessing that were promised to the children of Israel.

The nation of Israel was promised an everlasting kingdom and that there would be One who would sit upon David's Throne forever. However, Israel, as a nation, rejected their King and His Kingdom. This resulted in the delay in the establishement of the promised earthly kingdom.

We find that the Jews, as a nation, rejected God the Father when they refused to to be baptized of John, and tried to establish their own righteousness (Romans 10:3). The rejected God the Son when that demanded that Jesus be crucified. We find in Acts 7 that the leaders of Israel rejected God the Holy Ghost when they murdered (stoned) Stephen who was filled with the Holy Ghost.

With the rejection of the, Trinity by the nation of Israel, God set them aside (Romans 11:7-12), interrupted the kingdom program, and raised up Saul/Paul (Acts 9) to usher in the dispensation of grace, "which was kept secret since the world began."

In Acts 10 we see that God informed Peter that NOW the Gentile is no longer to be considered "unclean." This put the Jew and Gentile on equal footing and without distinction. The did not raise the Gentile up to the position of God's chosen people (Isreal), but brought the Jew down to the Gentile position of Genesis 11. Paul says in Romans 7:32 "For God hath concluded them all (Jew and Gentile) in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."

In Romans 3 we find the following: 1 "What advantage then hat the Jew? or what profit is ther of circumcision?
2. Much every way; chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God."

The oracles of God were the Civil, Moral and Ceremonial Laws of Moses. The deeds/works of the Law had to be done by FAITH

The Law was never given to the Gentiles and only applied to the Jews. However, as I stated earlier, for one that was a Gentile that wanted to serve the true and living God; that one had to become a Jew (proselyte) and place themselves under the Law.

With the setting aside of Israel, the Law is no longer in effect. The Jew and Gentile are not on equal footing and have equal access to God/Jesus based upon the Cross work (death, burial and resurrection) of Christ.

With the vision of Peter, in Acts 10, he is shown that the Gentile is now on equal ground with the Gentile (no longer to be considered unclean [vs 15]). He was shown that by God, and Peter confirmed it in verse 34, and it was demonstrated in vs 44 when the Gentiles received the Holy Ghost.

The attributes of God are the same today as they were yesterday, and will still be the same tomarrow. However, God has dealt differently with mankind throughout the course of human history. Salvation was ALWAYS based upon FAITH in believing/doing what God required at that point in time of human history.

Hope this is helpful.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!.

 

[Dispy]

Sorry, but I disagree witht hose that think we are not in the New Covenant.
Christ mediated a New Covenant at the cross - making a better sacrifice, and offered in a better sanctuary with better blood , and it is based on better promises. See Hebrews 8-10.

Matthew 26:28. "For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant), which is shed for many FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS."
29. "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, UNTIL that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."

According to prophesy, when Jesus was born in Bethlehem; it was the time for the promised kingdom to be established. Jesus said in Matthew 15:24 "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Paul says in Romans 18:8 "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers."

The Chruch, the Body of Christ, cannot be found in any OT prophesies or in the Gospels, or in the first 8 chapters of the book of the Acts. It is still future revelation to the Apostle Paul, and therefore it cannot be read into Matthew 26. (You wouldn't read the Laws of Moses into the Garden of Eden, or the battles of WWI into the battles of WWII, so done read future revelations to Paul into the Gospels or the first part of the Acts.

My "Fathers's kingdom" spoken of in Matt.26:29 will be here upon the earth. The Body of Christ has no part in the earthly kingdom. We have a heaven hope and calling.

In Matthew 26, Jesus is speaking to His 12 disciples in the upper room.

Luke 22:28: "Ye are they which have continued with me in my tempatations.
29. And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appoonted unto me;
30 That ye may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

The "new testament" (covenant) of Matthew 26 is also referenced in Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND THE HOUSE OF JUDAH:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness,
AND THEIR SINS AND THERI INIQUITIES WILL I REMEMBER NO MORE.
13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The above will fulfill the OT prophesy of Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make A NEW COVENANT WITH THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL AND WITH THE HOUSE OF JUDAH:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: FOR I WILL FORGIVE THEIR INIQUITY, AND I WILL REMEMBER THEIR SIN NO MORE.

We are children of Abraham through faith in Jesus Christ.

The "roots" of ALL believers go back to Abram/Abraham.Read Romans 4:12, 13. "And the father of circumcision to them who are not of the circumcsion only, but who also walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham, WHILE HE HAD BEING YET UNCIRCUMICSED. For the promise, that he should be heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or his seed, through the Law, but through the righteousness of FAITH.

Those verses just tell us that justification/salvation is apart from the Law, even while Abram was still a Gentile and before his name was changed to Abraham and he became a Jew in the flesh.

The covenant to Abram was when he was still a Gentile and was unconditional. After his name was changed to Abraham and required to become a "Jew in the flesh" by being circumcised, the unconditional promise to Abram wasn't changed, but new conditions were added to receive the promise. Any Jew that refused to be circumcised, was "cut off from his people; he hath broken the covenant" (Genesis 17:14).

After Abram's name was changed to Abraham, he is no longer referred to as Abram, even when they are talking about the times in which he lived before his name was changed.

Romans 4:1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh (when he was still called Abram and prior to his name change and his circumcision), hath found?
2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.

Paul is speaking of the time in Genesis 15:5,6. Verse 2 identifies to who God is speaking is Abram. Abram was call a friend of the Lord and was declared righteous (justified/saved). Abram was justified/saved just as members of the Body of Christ are today. By FAITH ALONE and not by any deeds/works of the Law.

In contrast to this, James tells us in his Letter 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

James is talking about the time in Genesis 22 when circumcised Abraham, a Jew in the flesh, at he was justified by doing a work to demonstrate his faith.

So the roots of ALL BELIEVERS go back to Abram/Abraham and are called the children of God. Those that are the seed of Abram are saved by FAITH alone, just as members of the Body of Christ are today, and those that were required to perform deed/works of the Law were saved/justified by doing the deed/works of the law BY FAITH. Salvation/justification has always been on the basis of FAITH. Now read Galations in that light.

As a Gentile, I am a child of God, saved by GRACE, THROUGH FAITH ALONE, and my roots go all the way back to Abram. All believers that were saved during the dispensation of the Law, are children of God, and saved by FAITH ALONE which was demonstrated by dong the deed/works of the Law by FAITH. Isn't Jesus the root in which the promise of salvation/justification is based for ALL mankind?

I, as a member of "the Body of Chirst" am not a Jew or "spiritual" Jew. My salvation/justifiction comes from Chirst through my FAITH ALONE in His Cross work, Just like Abram was saved/justified by just believing God.

All those that were saved/justified during the "dispensation of the Law" are saved by FAITH ALONE by demonstrating that faith by doing what the deed/works of the Law required.

The Cross work of Christ is the root of ALL those that believe.

Prior to the setting aside of Israel, and the formation of "the Body of Christ", There were different instructions addressed to Israel then to the Gentiles. If a Gentile wanted to serve the God of Israel, then the Gentile had to become a Jew (proselyte) and place themselves under the Civil, Moral and Ceremonial Laws of Moses.

I will follow the instructions that God gave to Paul for members of the Body of Christ. I will not mix them with the instructions that God gave to Moses for the children of Israel.

FiC: You may be a dispensationalist, but not all dispensationalists agree with eachother as we have just demonstrated.

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often, Love Much and Praise the Lord!

 

[FreeinChrist]

Matthew 26:28. "For this is my blood of the new testament (covenant), which is shed for many FOR THE REMISSION OF SINS."
29. "But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, UNTIL that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom."

According to prophesy, when Jesus was born in Bethlehem; it was the time for the promised kingdom to be established. Jesus said in Matthew 15:24 "I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

Yet the sacrifice of Christ provided the way of salvation to all - Jew and Gentile, and not just Jews. It was always meant to bring salvation to the Gentiles too, as seen:
Gen 22:18 "In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice."

Gal 3:7 Therefore, be sure that it is those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham.

Gal 3:8 The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, {saying,} "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."

Gal 3:9 So then those who are of faith are blessed with Abraham, the believer.

And Paul, 'apostle to the Gentiles", tells the church to celibrate communion, which is referred to in in Matthew 26:28.
1Cr 11:26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until He comes.



I don't see that the arguement that the church is not seen in the OT has any meaning in regards to whether or not the church is part of the New Covenant.
With that reasoning, we have no need to take communion.


And in your post, I see nothing that excludes us from receiving salvation because of the blood of Christ, which would be needed for us not to be a part of the New Covenant.



We are children of Abraham thorugh faith in Jesus Christ. period.
We are saved because of the blood of Jesus Christ that was shed for the world, which provided the way of salvation to the world.

I don't see that you prove the church is not part of the New Covenant at all.

 

[Tractor1]

Christ mediated a New Covenant at the cross

I believe that to be true, but not Israel's new covenant. Consider an alternative.

"Now the God of peace, who brought up from the dead the great Shepherd of the sheep through the blood of the eternal covenant, even Jesus our Lord, equip you in every good thing to do His will, working in us that which is pleasing in His sight, through Jesus Christ, to whom be the glory forever and ever. Amen" (Heb. 13:20-21).

Scripture makes clear what is entailed in Israel's new covenant (Jer. 31:31-34; Ezek. 36:26-28), and the Church isn't found within it. Its establishment will not take place in this dispensation, but is yet future (Rom. 11:25-27) and provides forgiveness of sin and the indwelling of the Spirit, Who will write the kingdom law upon their hearts, enabling them to walk in His statutes and ordinances. If the Church was under the new covenant we'd be kingdom Jews, but we've already attained much more through our position in Christ (Eph. 1:3) than Israel ever will.

In Christ,
Tracey

 

[Jerrysch]

And in your post, I see nothing that excludes us from receiving salvation because of the blood of Christ, which would be needed for us not to be a part of the New Covenant.



We are children of Abraham thorugh faith in Jesus Christ. period.
We are saved because of the blood of Jesus Christ that was shed for the world, which provided the way of salvation to the world.

I don't see that you prove the church is not part of the New Covenant at all.

Do you recall when the New Covenant is referred to in the Prophets? (That is the New Covenant is not a "New Testament" idea, it was described in the OT). Do you recall where it was spoken of?

 

[Dispy]

FiC:
The Body of Christ, the Chruch for today, is made up of believing "set aside Gentiles" of Genesis 11, and "set aside" Jews of Romans 11:7-2. They are on equal footing, without distinction and NOT UNDER THE LAW.

If you can SHOW ME, from Scripture, where these conditions existed PRIOR to the raising up of Saul/Paul, then I will believe what you have said.

Further, we don't learn the purpose of the Cross until AFTER it was revealed to Paul (1Cor.2:7,8).

As members of the Body of Christ, we partake of the Lord's Table (communion) in accordance with 1Cor.11:26.

It is quite apparent that you do not understand the difference between "prophesy," which Jesus came to fulfill, and "the mystery," which "was kept secret since the world began," and later revealed to the Apostle Paul.

In his book "Things That Differ" Pastor Stam list 14 basic things between PROPHECY (P) AND THE MYSTERY (M).

1. (P) Concerns a kingdom; a political organization (Dan. 2:44, Matt. 6:10).

(M) Concerns a body; a living organism (I Cor. 12:12,27, Eph. 4:12-16).

2. (P) The kingdom to be established on earth (Jer. 23:5, Matt. 6:10).

(M) The body given a position in heaven (Eph. 1:3, 2:5-6, Col 3:1-3).

3. (P) Christ to be its King (Jer. 23:5, Isa.9:6,7).

(M) Christ its living Head (Eph. 1:19-23,Col. 1:18).

4. (P) The kingdom prophesied "since the world began" (Luke 1:68-70, Acts3:21).

(M) The body chosen in Christ before the world began, but "kept secret since the world began" (Rom. 16:25, Eph. 1:4-11, 3:5-9).

5. (P) Israel to be given supremacy over the nations (Isa. 60:10-12, 61:6).

(M) Jew and Gentile placed on the same level before God (Rom. 10:12, 11:32,Eph. 2:16,17).

6. (P) The Gentiles to be blessed through Israel’s instrumentality (Gen.22:17,18, Zech. 8:13).

(M) The Gentiles blessed through Israel’s obstinacy (Acts 13:44-46, Rom. 11:28-32).

7. (P) The Gentiles to be blessed through Israel’s rise (Isa. 60:1-3, Zech. 8:22,23).

(M) The Gentiles blessed through Israel’s fall (Acts 28:27,28, Rom.11:11, 12, 15).

8. (P) Prophecy mainly concerns nations as such (Isa. 2:4, Ezek. 37:21, 22).

(M) The mystery concerns individuals (Rom. 10:12, 13, II Cor. 5:14-17).

9. (P) Prophecy concerns blessings, both material and spiritual, on earth (Isa.2:3, 4, 11:1-9, etc.).

(M)The mystery concerns "all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies" (Eph.1:3, Col. 3:1-3).

10. (P) Prophecy concerns Christ’s coming to the earth (Isa. 59:20, Zech. 14:4).

(M)The mystery explains Christ’s present absence from the earth (Eph. 1:20-23, Col. 3:1-3).

11. (P) In prophecy salvation by grace through faith alone is not contemplated.

(M) Salvation by faith alone lies at the very heart of the mystery (Rom. 3:21-26, 4:5, Eph.2:8,9).

12, (P)The proclamation of the prophetic program committed particularly to the twelve (Matt. 10:5-7, Acts 1:6-8, 3:19-26).

(M) The proclamation of the mystery committed particularly to Paul (Eph.3:1-3, 8-9, Col. 1:24-27).

13 (P) The prophetic program revealed through many of God’s servants (Luke 1:70, II Pet. 1:21).

(M) The mystery revealed through one man; Paul (Gal. 1:1, 11, 12, 2:2, 7, 9,Eph. 3:2,3).

14. (P) Old testament writers frequently did not understand the prophecies made known through them (Dan. 12:8-10, IPeter 1:10-12).

(M) Paul both understood and longed that others might understand the mystery revealed through him. (Eph.1:15-23, 3:14-21, Col. 1:9 -10, 2:1-3).

God Bless.
Live Well, Laugh Often and Love the Lord!

 

[Hedgehog]

Dispy,
certain things were worded a certain way (in the OT and up until Paul "spoke plainly" as opposed to Moses, who spoke with a "veil")because Israel asked not to hear the voice of God at Mount Sinai.
I believe because of all the reading Ive done, though I cant point out scripture right now without going to find it, that things would have been alot different if they hadnt asked not to hear the voice of God again.
I believe the whole reason the "veil" was put on, was because of their asking not to hear God again.

Where I believe Dispensationalists are going wrong is where they fail to see that Jesus( and the disciples and Paul) shed "light" on a message that was already there.
It was there,but Israel was in darkness.They couldnt "see" the light.
It was "night time" and now its "day", they were "sleeping" and now they have no excuse because its "daytime" and they should be " awake".

Isa 51:17 Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the LORD the cup of his fury;

Joe 1:5 Awake, ye drunkards, and weep; and howl, all ye drinkers of wine, because of the new wine;

then Paul says:

Rom 13:11 And that, knowing the time, that now [it is] high time to awake out of sleep: for now [is] our salvation nearer than when we believed.

1Cr 15:34 Awake to righteousness, and sin not; for some have not the knowledge of God: I speak [this] to your shame.

Eph 5:14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

there are a zillion scriptures about them(ethnic Israel) being blind, in darkness, asleep etc..

Also, the message was not spoken plainly like it is for us now.
It was spoken thru the law.
Even when Jesus walked the earth He did not speak plainly like Paul was given the right too.
That plainness of speech could ONLY happen after Jesus died.
He told the apostles that he ONLY spoke to them in parables.
Remember that one time, right before he goes to be betrayed when he speaks plainly and they see that and mention it even to him, and say " now you speak plainly, and we believe, because you've told us straight out".

Ok, my point is, that dispensationalists are failing to fully seperate the "darkness" from the "light.
Dont get caught up in the message that Israel "seen", because we know better now. The message has been spoken to us "plainly"

Let me go over some of your points from Stam ( and by the way, Ive read Things That Differ, several times)

1. (P) Concerns a kingdom; a political organization (Dan. 2:44, Matt. 6:10).

(M) Concerns a body; a living organism (I Cor. 12:12,27, Eph. 4:12-16).

Same things!!
OK, everything God has done spiritually, He did earthly/physically too.
He is not a liar, so whatever he says, is true- he did it earthly, and then spiritually.
Remember Israel asked not to hear the voice of God again, but he didnt leave them and abandon them, he SHOWED them instead, thru the law. Only they never did/or even COULD see what it foreshadowed.

Ok, so everything that was going to take place He showed them, and a certain people had to live that earthly existance of it out- that was Israel.
Israel was a "servant" then, doing this earthly job for God. Being under bondage to the law, the ministration of death.
Wow. What a job for a servant to do.
By the way- no one, including Israel is a servant anymore. They/we are a son. No more a servant, but a son it says in Romans I think it is.
That servants job is done. We're onto the spiritual now.
Never again will this servants job need to be done. Its already done. The arthly law has been lived out, why would it ever need to be lived out again? We SEE what it prophesied/foreshadowed now.

2. (P) The kingdom to be established on earth (Jer. 23:5, Matt. 6:10).

(M) The body given a position in heaven (Eph. 1:3, 2:5-6, Col 3:1-3).

I dont know the full answer to this, aside from the possibility of Christs earthly kingdom being spiritual? Made up of people of faith?
I dont know though.
But- I know you say gentiles have a heavenly hope, and Israel a earthly.

Phl 3:20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Col 1:5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel;

But apparently whoever Peter is speaking to here, is expecting a heavenly hope also.

1Pe 1:4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

Most dispensationalists would say Peters letters are not for the church.

4. (P) The kingdom prophesied "since the world began" (Luke 1:68-70, Acts3:21).

(M) The body chosen in Christ before the world began, but "kept secret since the world began" (Rom. 16:25, Eph. 1:4-11, 3:5-9).

Same thing!!
Dispy, please, open your eyes. I say that with love.
God is no respecter of persons. He doesnt have a divided family.ALL things were to be brought into ONE for Him. The jews were ARROGANT for thinking it was all about them. Dont be fooled by their arrogance. Your grafted in, your a partaker, your an heir.
Of the SAME promise. Abrahams promise of land, was a foreshadow of eternal life.
Abraham sought a "country" whos builder and maker was God.THATS the land you wanna be an heir too, a better promise, with a better inheritance.
That land promise is done and over with.
God showed mankind thru Israel, the servant, that they were promised a "land". Its been shown. Its done.Earthly things will pass away, but our heavenly "land" will not.

6. (P) The Gentiles to be blessed through Israel’s instrumentality (Gen.22:17,18, Zech. 8:13).

(M) The Gentiles blessed through Israel’s obstinacy (Acts 13:44-46, Rom. 11:28-32).

We know that there is no jew and gentile. So Israels blessing of the nations must have come already. It did. They were the earthly servant and had to live with that ministration of death, they did. They served the purpose.
Those two statements you said are opposites. God is not a liar, and he didnt change plans.

14. (P) Old testament writers frequently did not understand the prophecies made known through them (Dan. 12:8-10, IPeter 1:10-12).

(M) Paul both understood and longed that others might understand the mystery revealed through him. (Eph.1:15-23, 3:14-21, Col. 1:9 -10, 2:1-3).

This is right. The prophets could not understand. The message was there, but they could not understand the spiritualness of it. They thought it was all earthly.
The jews were zealous of the works of the law, instead of seeing what it foreshadowed.

I dont by any means claim to know it all Dispy.
I am still learning and reading every day.
Let me leave you with this though:

1Pe 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that ***not unto themselves***, but unto *us* they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven;

please open up your Bible and read this in its context.
It was all spoken to the prophets.But they didnt understand it, it wasnt "ministed" unto them,only thru the Holy Ghost can we SEE THE LIGHT(let it minister unto us). (Read all of John)
We couldnt have the Holy Ghost until after Jesus went away.
There fore we ( ANYONE) could not see the light until He came and Died and sent the Comforter.
Its the Comforter/Holy Ghost who reveals truth unto us.
No one had the choice even to see the truth until Jesus had came and Died, because the Comforter could not come until then, and its He who reveals truth.

I hope I made some sense, and I hope I dont come off as offensive.Thank you for the conversation Dispy.

 

[Jerrysch]

The New Covanaent is to be found in the book of Jeremiah 31: 31"Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- 32not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, though I was a husband to them,[a] says the LORD. 33But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, "Know the LORD,' for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."
35Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The LORD of hosts is His name):
36"If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the LORD,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever."





37Thus says the LORD:
"If heaven above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
For all that they have done, says the LORD.

38"Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39The surveyor's line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever."

Notice with whom He makes this covenant? (It is in red).

When Jesus spoke to his disciples it was this covenant He spoke of, and his disciples, they were all of ethnic Israel , they would have understood it in relation to the prophets, they had heard Jesus speak twice about the church, but nothing in detail, When they heard Him speak of the New Covenant it is to Jeremiah 31 they turned.

 

[Ebb]

When Jesus spoke to his disciples it was this covenant He spoke of, and his disciples, they were all of ethnic Israel , they would have understood it in relation to the prophets, they had heard Jesus speak twice about the church, but nothing in detail, When they heard Him speak of the New Covenant it is to Jeremiah 31 they turned.

In this parable spoken by Jesus in Luke 16, what happened to the “promises made” to this rich man whose father is Abraham and who has Moses and the prophets? Isn’t the rich man of ethnic Israel? At death, is this his promised land? In contrast, what about the beggar named Lazarus?

Luke 16

19There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

​

 

[Ebb]

The New Covanaent is to be found in the book of Jeremiah 31: 31

Which is quoted and applied in Hebrews:

Hebrews 8

…8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: 9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:…

Hebrews 9

…24For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us: 25Nor yet that he should offer himself often, as the high priest entereth into the holy place every year with blood of others; 26For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself. 27And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: 28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

​

 

[FreeinChrist]

Do you recall when the New Covenant is referred to in the Prophets? (That is the New Covenant is not a "New Testament" idea, it was described in the OT). Do you recall where it was spoken of?

Yep!
Have you read Hebrews?

 

[Jerrysch]

In this parable spoken by Jesus in Luke 16, what happened to the “promises made” to this rich man whose father is Abraham and who has Moses and the prophets? Isn’t the rich man of ethnic Israel? At death, is this his promised land? In contrast, what about the beggar named Lazarus?

Yes, this rick man was of ethnic Israel and Lazarus was as well. The covenant was given to ethnic Israel, it was not nor will it be "enjoyed" by every single person of this nation, but a point of interest is that at the time of this covenant's "activity" all of those who are involved in this covenant will be redeemed and filled with the Holy Spirit and will have their sins forgiven. There will come a time, Eb, when every member of ethnic Israel (who are alive) will be redeemed, that is "saved". Do you remember reading about this?

 

[Jerrysch]

Yep!
Have you read Hebrews?

Yes, but I was speaking of the Old(er) Testament. And I gave the answer away already