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Exploring Christianity
The mythology surrounding Lucifer/Satan/The Devil
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<blockquote data-quote="ElijahW" data-source="post: 59784341" data-attributes="member: 275668"><p>The ideas around the nature of the spiritual intermediary between man and God changed from the OT to the NT, along with the perceived causes of evil in the world because of the influx of Greek thought. Ive never read a church father on Isaiah, so Im just going off what was said about other OT texts. </p><p></p><p>Originally the spiritual element next to God could be seen as someone to argue with about if Job was an ok guy but later on the spiritual entity is seen as what Jesus is personifying. This causes some early Christian writers to interpret passages that, were before God speaking, as now the Christ speaking because the Lord being spoke of wasnt thought to be the true God but instead Logos because God had become unknowable. Marcion doesnt interpret the Jewish texts this way and instead takes them for what they say and claims the Jews held to a faulty understanding of God.</p><p></p><p> The other big change was the idea of fallen and unclean spirits was also incorporated from the Greeks an idea they were already familiar with in the form of opposing idolatry. The belief was that the ideas we have are real created things but the ideas we have come in two varieties. We have ideas that are true that comes from reason/logos, which is also real and is produced by God, or we get the ideas from the world and what we see. Those ideas are fallen or unclean and are seen as the source of all the worlds problems.</p><p></p><p> An example would be trying to depict spiritual elements in art or poetry, which then leads to irrational understandings of spiritual elements, because we apply concepts we picked up from the material presentation. Also for example, the Law could be seen as having a spiritual truth that was being distorted by worldly presentation of putting it into writing.</p><p></p><p> The devil is seen as an unclean or fallen spirit as well, though I am not exactly sure what the spirit is that is fallen or the relationship between it and the other unclean spirits. Im not sure if it should be understood as a particularly harmful unclean spirit, such as the memeplex a tyrannical king would posses, or another idea that is the base of the tyrant meme. I lean towards the former.<p style="margin-left: 20px"> The true Pharoah, that is the devil. Origen Exodus homily</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p><p><span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">The problem for early Christianity was with this kind of thinking, anything that comes into play with matter becomes unclean, which makes Jesus manifesting the spirit in the flesh, unclean, so Jesus couldnt have a body</span>[FONT=&quot], <span style="font-family: 'Verdana'">which leads to creating the Docetism heresy. </span></p><p>[/FONT]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ElijahW, post: 59784341, member: 275668"] The ideas around the nature of the spiritual intermediary between man and God changed from the OT to the NT, along with the perceived causes of evil in the world because of the influx of Greek thought. Ive never read a church father on Isaiah, so Im just going off what was said about other OT texts. Originally the spiritual element next to God could be seen as someone to argue with about if Job was an ok guy but later on the spiritual entity is seen as what Jesus is personifying. This causes some early Christian writers to interpret passages that, were before God speaking, as now the Christ speaking because the Lord being spoke of wasnt thought to be the true God but instead Logos because God had become unknowable. Marcion doesnt interpret the Jewish texts this way and instead takes them for what they say and claims the Jews held to a faulty understanding of God. The other big change was the idea of fallen and unclean spirits was also incorporated from the Greeks an idea they were already familiar with in the form of opposing idolatry. The belief was that the ideas we have are real created things but the ideas we have come in two varieties. We have ideas that are true that comes from reason/logos, which is also real and is produced by God, or we get the ideas from the world and what we see. Those ideas are fallen or unclean and are seen as the source of all the worlds problems. An example would be trying to depict spiritual elements in art or poetry, which then leads to irrational understandings of spiritual elements, because we apply concepts we picked up from the material presentation. Also for example, the Law could be seen as having a spiritual truth that was being distorted by worldly presentation of putting it into writing. The devil is seen as an unclean or fallen spirit as well, though I am not exactly sure what the spirit is that is fallen or the relationship between it and the other unclean spirits. Im not sure if it should be understood as a particularly harmful unclean spirit, such as the memeplex a tyrannical king would posses, or another idea that is the base of the tyrant meme. I lean towards the former.[INDENT] The true Pharoah, that is the devil. Origen Exodus homily [/INDENT][FONT=Verdana]The problem for early Christianity was with this kind of thinking, anything that comes into play with matter becomes unclean, which makes Jesus manifesting the spirit in the flesh, unclean, so Jesus couldnt have a body[/FONT][FONT="], [FONT=Verdana]which leads to creating the Docetism heresy. [/FONT] [/FONT] [/QUOTE]
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