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Exploring Christianity
The mythology surrounding Lucifer/Satan/The Devil
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<blockquote data-quote="GrayAngel" data-source="post: 59784233" data-attributes="member: 162431"><p>The Bible is a single unit written by one God. Prophecies in the OT were often not understood until Jesus and His disciples came along. For example:</p><p></p><p><u><strong>Isaiah 9:6</strong></u> - <em>For to us a child is born,</em></p><p><em>to us a son is given,</em></p><p><em>and the government will be on his shoulders.</em></p><p><em>And he will be called</em></p><p><em>Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,</em></p><p><em>Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.</em></p><p></p><p>Do you think the Jews of Isaiah's time knew what this meant? A son who would be called God? It's sound heretical, to say that a child could be given these titles which belong to Yahweh only. They didn't understand that God would take on human form. They didn't know that He would suffer and die because of the very people He came to save, despite the prophecies that said He would.</p><p></p><p>I'm familiar enough with the OT to know it's style. What it says and what it means does not always match up, such as with the book of Hosea.</p><p></p><p>In addition to the reference to Satan in Isaiah, there's a slightly more obvious reference in Ezekiel:</p><p></p><p><u><strong>Ezekiel 28:11-19</strong></u> - <em>The word of the LORD came to me: &#8220;Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: &#8216;This is what the Sovereign LORD says:</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>&#8220;&#8216;You were the seal of perfection,</em><em>full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.</em></p><p><em>You were in Eden,</em></p><p><em>the garden of God;</em></p><p><em>every precious stone adorned you:</em></p><p><em>carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,</em></p><p><em>topaz, onyx and jasper,</em></p><p><em>lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.</em></p><p><em></em></p><p><em>Your settings and mountings were made of gold;</em></p><p><em>on the day you were created they were prepared.</em></p><p><em>You were anointed as a guardian cherub,</em></p><p><em>for so I ordained you.</em></p><p><em>You were on the holy mount of God;</em></p><p><em>you walked among the fiery stones.</em></p><p><em>You were blameless in your ways</em></p><p><em>from the day you were created</em></p><p><em>till wickedness was found in you.</em></p><p><em>Through your widespread trade</em></p><p><em>you were filled with violence,</em></p><p><em>and you sinned.</em></p><p><em>So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,</em></p><p><em>and I expelled you, guardian cherub,</em></p><p><em>from among the fiery stones.</em></p><p><em>Your heart became proud</em></p><p><em>on account of your beauty,</em></p><p><em>and you corrupted your wisdom</em></p><p><em>because of your splendor.</em></p><p><em>So I threw you to the earth;</em></p><p><em>I made a spectacle of you before kings.</em></p><p><em>By your many sins and dishonest trade</em></p><p><em>you have desecrated your sanctuaries.</em></p><p><em>So I made a fire come out from you,</em></p><p><em>and it consumed you,</em></p><p><em>and I reduced you to ashes on the ground</em></p><p><em>in the sight of all who were watching.</em></p><p><em>All the nations who knew you</em></p><p><em>are appalled at you;</em></p><p><em>you have come to a horrible end</em></p><p><em>and will be no more.&#8217;&#8221;</em></p><p></p><p>Like the Isaiah passage, this is addressed to an earthly king, but many of the things it says about this king are not true of him.</p><p></p><p>For example: "You were in Eden." Did the kingdom of Tyre exist in the garden of Eden? Of course not. There were only four the Bible tells us were in Eden: God, Adam, Eve, and the "Serpent" (ie the Devil).</p><p></p><p>The king is called an anointed Cherub. A Cherub is a class of angel. There were Cherub on the Ark of the Covenant. The king of Tyre was obviously not an angel.</p><p></p><p>It also says that he was perfect and blameless. No human is perfect. The Bible makes that very clear. The angels, however, were created perfect. Still, some of them managed to fall, as this passage, Isaiah, and Revelation tell us.</p><p></p><p>Also an interesting note: Do you remember how God punished the Serpent after he tempted Adam and Eve?</p><p></p><p><u><strong>Genesis 3:14-15</strong></u> - <em>So the LORD God said to the serpent, &#8220;Because you have done this,</em></p><p></p><p><em>&#8220;Cursed are you above all livestock</em></p><p><em>and all wild animals!</em></p><p><em>You will crawl on your belly</em></p><p><em>and you will eat dust</em></p><p><em>all the days of your life.</em></p><p><em>And I will put enmity</em></p><p><em>between you and the woman,</em></p><p><em>and between your offspring and hers;</em></p><p><em>he will crush your head,</em></p><p><em>and you will strike his heel.&#8221;</em></p><p></p><p>Wait. Don't snakes crawl on their bellies anyway? How is this a punishment? Well, if you take these verses literally, it sounds like the serpent had legs and that God punished him by taking them away. Interestingly enough, it is believed that snakes did once have legs, but that they lost them through evolution.</p><p></p><p>But on a figurative level, this sounds a lot like the angel who fell from Heaven. The serpent was forced down to the earth. I don't think it was a coincidence that the author of Revelation connected these OT passages together.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GrayAngel, post: 59784233, member: 162431"] The Bible is a single unit written by one God. Prophecies in the OT were often not understood until Jesus and His disciples came along. For example: [U][B]Isaiah 9:6[/B][/U] - [I]For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.[/I] Do you think the Jews of Isaiah's time knew what this meant? A son who would be called God? It's sound heretical, to say that a child could be given these titles which belong to Yahweh only. They didn't understand that God would take on human form. They didn't know that He would suffer and die because of the very people He came to save, despite the prophecies that said He would. I'm familiar enough with the OT to know it's style. What it says and what it means does not always match up, such as with the book of Hosea. In addition to the reference to Satan in Isaiah, there's a slightly more obvious reference in Ezekiel: [U][B]Ezekiel 28:11-19[/B][/U] - [I]The word of the LORD came to me: “Son of man, take up a lament concerning the king of Tyre and say to him: ‘This is what the Sovereign LORD says: “‘You were the seal of perfection,[/I][I]full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.[/I] [I]You were in Eden,[/I] [I]the garden of God;[/I] [I]every precious stone adorned you:[/I] [I]carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,[/I] [I]topaz, onyx and jasper,[/I] [I]lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl. [/I] [I]Your settings and mountings were made of gold;[/I] [I]on the day you were created they were prepared.[/I] [I]You were anointed as a guardian cherub,[/I] [I]for so I ordained you.[/I] [I]You were on the holy mount of God;[/I] [I]you walked among the fiery stones.[/I] [I]You were blameless in your ways[/I] [I]from the day you were created[/I] [I]till wickedness was found in you.[/I] [I]Through your widespread trade[/I] [I]you were filled with violence,[/I] [I]and you sinned.[/I] [I]So I drove you in disgrace from the mount of God,[/I] [I]and I expelled you, guardian cherub,[/I] [I]from among the fiery stones.[/I] [I]Your heart became proud[/I] [I]on account of your beauty,[/I] [I]and you corrupted your wisdom[/I] [I]because of your splendor.[/I] [I]So I threw you to the earth;[/I] [I]I made a spectacle of you before kings.[/I] [I]By your many sins and dishonest trade[/I] [I]you have desecrated your sanctuaries.[/I] [I]So I made a fire come out from you,[/I] [I]and it consumed you,[/I] [I]and I reduced you to ashes on the ground[/I] [I]in the sight of all who were watching.[/I] [I]All the nations who knew you[/I] [I]are appalled at you;[/I] [I]you have come to a horrible end[/I] [I]and will be no more.’”[/I] Like the Isaiah passage, this is addressed to an earthly king, but many of the things it says about this king are not true of him. For example: "You were in Eden." Did the kingdom of Tyre exist in the garden of Eden? Of course not. There were only four the Bible tells us were in Eden: God, Adam, Eve, and the "Serpent" (ie the Devil). The king is called an anointed Cherub. A Cherub is a class of angel. There were Cherub on the Ark of the Covenant. The king of Tyre was obviously not an angel. It also says that he was perfect and blameless. No human is perfect. The Bible makes that very clear. The angels, however, were created perfect. Still, some of them managed to fall, as this passage, Isaiah, and Revelation tell us. Also an interesting note: Do you remember how God punished the Serpent after he tempted Adam and Eve? [U][B]Genesis 3:14-15[/B][/U] - [I]So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this,[/I] [I]“Cursed are you above all livestock[/I] [I]and all wild animals![/I] [I]You will crawl on your belly[/I] [I]and you will eat dust[/I] [I]all the days of your life.[/I] [I]And I will put enmity[/I] [I]between you and the woman,[/I] [I]and between your offspring and hers;[/I] [I]he will crush your head,[/I] [I]and you will strike his heel.”[/I] Wait. Don't snakes crawl on their bellies anyway? How is this a punishment? Well, if you take these verses literally, it sounds like the serpent had legs and that God punished him by taking them away. Interestingly enough, it is believed that snakes did once have legs, but that they lost them through evolution. But on a figurative level, this sounds a lot like the angel who fell from Heaven. The serpent was forced down to the earth. I don't think it was a coincidence that the author of Revelation connected these OT passages together. [/QUOTE]
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