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The Mother of All Pretexts

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Micah68

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As Christians should we not care equally about the Palestinian people and Jewish Israelis? As Christians should we not care for and promote peace for all peoples? Who still believes the only obsticale to peace is Palestinian terrorism? As a Christian do you think it is important to know and learn about what is going on in other parts of the world as well has in your homeland?
If responding, As Christians, please apply Christ's criteria to your answer.


October 17, 2007
The Mother of All Pretexts
by Uri Avnery
When I hear mention of the "Clash of Civilizations," I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.
To laugh, because it is such a silly notion.
To cry, because it is liable to cause untold disasters.
To cry even more, because our leaders are exploiting this slogan as a pretext for sabotaging any possibility of an Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation. It is just one more in a long line of pretexts.
Why was the Zionist movement in need of excuses to justify the way it treated the Palestinian people? (read more)
 

Tanakh

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As Christians should we not care equally about the Palestinian people and Jewish Israelis? As Christians should we not care for and promote peace for all peoples? Who still believes the only obsticale to peace is Palestinian terrorism? As a Christian do you think it is important to know and learn about what is going on in other parts of the world as well has in your homeland?
If responding, As Christians, please apply Christ's criteria to your answer.


October 17, 2007
The Mother of All Pretexts
by Uri Avnery
When I hear mention of the "Clash of Civilizations," I don't know whether to laugh or to cry.
To laugh, because it is such a silly notion.
To cry, because it is liable to cause untold disasters.
To cry even more, because our leaders are exploiting this slogan as a pretext for sabotaging any possibility of an Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation. It is just one more in a long line of pretexts.
Why was the Zionist movement in need of excuses to justify the way it treated the Palestinian people? (read more)
Zionism is not in need of excuses to justify the way it treats the "Palestinians" as they justify the way we treat them by their actions. And yes you are truly applying Christ to your thread as he would have done exactly what you are doing and no that is not sarcasm as I am serious. You and Jesus would have gotten along great as he tried to destroy Israel with his actions as well.
 
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Micah68

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Zionism is not in need of excuses to justify the way it treats the "Palestinians" as they justify the way we treat them by their actions. And yes you are truly applying Christ to your thread as he would have done exactly what you are doing and no that is not sarcasm as I am serious. You and Jesus would have gotten along great as he tried to destroy Israel with his actions as well.


Tanakh just know people are praying for you, whether you like it or not. Curious why you like hanging out here?
 
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Tanakh

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Tanakh just know people are praying for you, whether you like it or not. Curious why you like hanging out here?

I don't particulary like "hanging out" here as the only reason I am here is to stop the lies that are being spread about Israel and the Torah which you Christians and Muslims seem to love to hold dear to. If I had not responded to several of the threads on this forum no one would have fought against the blasphemy that has been running rampant throughout the threads discussing the "Palestinians" and their so-called good intentions that everyone seems to praise with blind submission as their is no reason to hold Zionism as the sole reason that their is conflict throughout the world as their are many country's that do far worse then anything Israel does. But then again it does not take much to see right through a Jew-hater, which you clearly are wether you will admit it or not.
 
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Micah68

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I don't particulary like "hanging out" here as the only reason I am here is to stop the lies that are being spread about Israel and the Torah which you Christians and Muslims seem to love to hold dear to. If I had not responded to several of the threads on this forum no one would have fought against the blasphemy that has been running rampant throughout the threads discussing the "Palestinians" and their so-called good intentions that everyone seems to praise with blind submission as their is no reason to hold Zionism as the sole reason that their is conflict throughout the world as their are many country's that do far worse then anything Israel does. But then again it does not take much to see right through a Jew-hater, which you clearly are wether you will admit it or not.


Curious how many peoples minds you have changed. Jew hater? I'll line up my Jewish friends and you can verify that.
 
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Tanakh

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Curious how many peoples minds you have changed. Jew hater? I'll line up my Jewish friends and you can verify that.
Any Jew who befriends you is not a true Jew at all but nothing more than a traitor. I will line them up but it will not be to verify that you are not a Jew-hater.
 
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Rion

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Any Jew who befriends you is not a true Jew at all but nothing more than a traitor. I will line them up but it will not be to verify that you are not a Jew-hater.

No offense, but you're starting to come off rather xenophobic. I *like* Jews, and I'm very grateful towards them, but you know... the Lord says love your neighbor. I can't say that she does or doesn't hate Jews, but she does seem to be extremely sympathetic to the Palestinians, which I guess one could take it that way. Regardless, spewing venom back and forth isn't going to do a thing for anyone.
 
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Micah68

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No offense, but you're starting to come off rather xenophobic. I *like* Jews, and I'm very grateful towards them, but you know... the Lord says love your neighbor. I can't say that she does or doesn't hate Jews, but she does seem to be extremely sympathetic to the Palestinians, which I guess one could take it that way. Regardless, spewing venom back and forth isn't going to do a thing for anyone.


Who created the concept if one sympathizes with the Palestinians one was anti-Jewish? This is so ridiculous. I want Peace, I want people to just get along with one another. Now what the Israeli Government is doing to the Palestinians is just wrong and the hate and heart ache it causes does no one any favors, certainly doesn't promote a peaceful environment with which to live. I am a Christian and Jesus command us to love our neighbor, my neighbor is Jewish, Palestinian Christian, Palestinian Muslim, Arab, Indian, Spanish, etc. etc. Peace and justice must be applied fairly to all sides. Respect for one another as human beings is a must. NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY FOR ISRAEL TO TAKE THE LAND BY FORCE AND VIOLENCE, NO WHERE DO IT SAY THIS.

An Excellent lecture presented at Rice University on Palestinian Christians and Christian Zionists
http://webcast.rice.edu/index.php?action=details&event=715
 
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Tanakh

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Who created the concept if one sympathizes with the Palestinians one was anti-Jewish? This is so ridiculous. I want Peace, I want people to just get along with one another. Now what the Israeli Government is doing to the Palestinians is just wrong and the hate and heart ache it causes does no one any favors, certainly doesn't promote a peaceful environment with which to live. I am a Christian and Jesus command us to love our neighbor, my neighbor is Jewish, Palestinian Christian, Palestinian Muslim, Arab, Indian, Spanish, etc. etc. Peace and justice must be applied fairly to all sides. Respect for one another as human beings is a must. NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY FOR ISRAEL TO TAKE THE LAND BY FORCE AND VIOLENCE, NO WHERE DO IT SAY THIS.

An Excellent lecture presented at Rice University on Palestinian Christians and Christian Zionists
http://webcast.rice.edu/index.php?action=details&event=715
If you support the "Palestinian cause" then by default you support the destruction of Israel as the main goal of the "Palestinians" is our annihilation. Thus anyone who sympathizes with them is a Jew-hater.
 
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Rion

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NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE DOES IT SAY FOR ISRAEL TO TAKE THE LAND BY FORCE AND VIOLENCE, NO WHERE DO IT SAY THIS.

...um... Joshua?

Realize that Orthodox Jews do not have the Holy Spirit, so they do not understand the concepts of the NT any better than Palestinians. I want love to be applied fairly on all sides, but you seem to see the Palestinians as more innocent, while you see the Jews as being darn near evil.

Remember, living surrounded by nutsofacto leaders who want to wipe out every Jew that lives probably doesn't endear a non-believer to their enemies. Pity them, don't attack them.
 
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Micah68

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...um... Joshua?

Realize that Orthodox Jews do not have the Holy Spirit, so they do not understand the concepts of the NT any better than Palestinians. I want love to be applied fairly on all sides, but you seem to see the Palestinians as more innocent, while you see the Jews as being darn near evil.

Remember, living surrounded by nutsofacto leaders who want to wipe out every Jew that lives probably doesn't endear a non-believer to their enemies. Pity them, don't attack them.

"The Jerusalem Declaration on Christian Zionism"

"Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God." (Matthew 5:9)

Christian Zionism is a modern theological and political movement that embraces the most extreme ideological positions of Zionism, thereby becoming detrimental to a just peace within Palestine and Israel.

The Christian Zionist program provides a worldview where the Gospel is identified with the ideology of empire, colonialism and militarism. In its extreme form, it laces an emphasis on apocalyptic events leading to the end of history rather than living Christ's love and justice today.

We categorically reject Christian Zionist doctrines as false teaching that corrupts the biblical message of love, justice and reconciliation.

We further reject the contemporary alliance of Christian Zionist leaders and organizations with elements in the governments of Israel and the United States that are presently imposing their unilateral preemptive borders and domination over Palestine.

This inevitably leads to unending cycles of violence that undermine the security of all peoples of the Middle East and the rest of the world.

We reject the teachings of Christian Zionism that facilitate and support these policies as they advance racial exclusivity and perpetual war rather than the gospel of universal love, redemption and reconciliation taught by Jesus Christ.

Rather than condemn the world to the doom of Armageddon we call upon everyone to liberate themselves from the ideologies of militarism and occupation. Instead, let them pursue the healing of the nations!

We call upon Christians in Churches on every continent to pray for the Palestinian and Israeli people, both of whom are suffering as victims of occupation and militarism. These discriminative actions are turning Palestine into impoverished ghettos surrounded by exclusive Israeli settlements.

The establishment of the illegal settlements and the construction of the Separation Wall on confiscated Palestinian land undermine the viability of a Palestinian state as well as peace and security in the entire region.

We call upon all Churches that remain silent, to break their silence and speak for reconciliation with justice in the Holy Land.

Therefore, we commit ourselves to the following principles as an alternative way:

We affirm that all people are created in the image of God. In turn they are called to honor the dignity of every human being and to respect their inalienable rights.

We affirm that Israelis and Palestinians are capable of living together within peace, justice and security.

We affirm that Palestinians are one people, both Muslim and Christian. We reject all attempts to subvert and fragment their unity.

We call upon all people to reject the narrow world view of Christian Zionism and other ideologies that privilege one people at the expense of others.

We are committed to non-violent resistance as the most effective means to end the illegal occupation in order to attain a just and lasting peace.

With urgency we warn that Christian Zionism and its alliances are justifying colonization, apartheid and empire-building.

God demands that justice be done. No enduring peace, security or reconciliation is possible without the foundation of justice. The demands of justice will not disappear. The struggle for justice must be pursued diligently and persistently but without violence.

"What does the Lord require of you: To act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God." (Micah 6:8)

This is where we take our stand. We stand for justice. We can do no other. Justice alone guarantees a peace that will lead to reconciliation with a life of security and prosperity for all the peoples of our land. By standing on the side of justice, we open ourselves to the work of peace -- and working for peace makes us children of God.

"God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation." (2 Corinthians 5:19)

Patriarch Michel Sabbah
Latin Patriarchate, Jerusalem

Archbishop Swerios Malki Mourad,
Syrian Orthodox Patriarchate, Jerusalem

Bishop Riah Abu El-Assal,
Episcopal Church of Jerusalem and the Middle East

Bishop Munib Younan,
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Jordan and the Holy Land
 
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Micah68

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Good for them.

I am trying to explain the mentality that the Jews in Israel have. It's actually a bit different than the "SLAUGHTER THEM ALL" junk that the Palestinian leaders follow.


And what do you call the displacement, slaughter and occupation of the indigenous population? I grant you one wrong does not make another right but really whose side is God going to be on the oppressed or the oppresser?

For a long time, Zionists have been propagating fear based propaganda to their followers, probably this picture can tell you a bit of the real story, click here for more details. It's misleading and unfair to focus on what Palestinians might allegedly do in the future, while the past and present of Palestinians are filled with Israeli war crimes. These types of accusations are meant to deflect and confuse the core issues of the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. The core issues of the conflict are the collective DISPOSSESSION and ETHNIC CLEANSING (compulsory population transfer) of the Palestinian people for the past five decades. It should be emphasized that the conflict would have been at the same level of intensity, even if both warring parties had been Muslims, Christians, or even Jewish.
http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Palestine-Remembered/Story417.html
 
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Tanakh

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And what do you call the displacement, slaughter and occupation of the indigenous population? I grant you one wrong does not make another right but really whose side is God going to be on the oppressed or the oppresser?
G-d is going to be on the side of those you call the "oppressor" or more commonly known as His chosen people.
 
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Micah68

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G-d is going to be on the side of those you call the "oppressor" or more commonly known as His chosen people.

Classic example of Biblical text munipulated to suit man's selfish purpose:(

This covenant was made with Abram/Abraham before any Children.
17:3 Abram bowed down with his face to the ground, 9 and God said to him, 10 17:4 “As for me, 11 this 12 is my covenant with you: You will be the father of a multitude of nations.( NOT an exclusive nation) 17:5 No longer will your name be 13 Abram. Instead, your name will be Abraham 14 because I will make you 15 the father of a multitude of nations. 17:6 I will make you 16 extremely 17 fruitful. I will make nations of you, and kings will descend from you. 18 17:7 I will confirm 19 my covenant as a perpetual 20 covenant between me and you. It will extend to your descendants after you throughout their generations. I will be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 21 17:8 I will give the whole land of Canaan – the land where you are now residing 22 – to you and your descendants after you as a permanent 23 possession. I will be their God.”
17:9 Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep 24 the covenantal requirement 25 I am imposing on you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. 17:10 This is my requirement that you and your descendants after you must keep: 26 Every male among you must be circumcised. 27 17:11 You must circumcise the flesh of your foreskins. This will be a reminder 28 of the covenant between me and you. 17:12 Throughout your generations every male among you who is eight days old 29 must be circumcised, whether born in your house or bought with money from any foreigner who is not one of your descendants. 17:13 They must indeed be circumcised, 30 whether born in your house or bought with money. The sign of my covenant 31 will be visible in your flesh as a permanent 32 reminder. 17:14 Any uncircumcised male 33 who has not been circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin will be cut off 34 from his people – he has failed to carry out my requirement.” 35


Covenant based on FAITHFULNESS to GOD!!

Num 5:6“Tell the Israelites, ‘When 1 a man or a woman commits any sin that people commit, 2 thereby breaking faith 3 with the Lord, and that person is found guilty, 4



I know you do not recognize the NT
Rom 4:13For the promise p ', STICKY, MOUSEOFF, VAUTO);" onmouseout=nd(); href="javascript:void(0);">1 to Abraham or to his descendants that he would inherit the world was not fulfilled through the law, but through the righteousness that comes by faith.
 
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Psalms 119 v 105

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Yes, we should care for both Israelis and Palestinians. However….True peace will not come until the Prince of Peace comes back. Man’s peace always causes wars by compromises and manipulations and at times at a price, someone always loses out. As a follower of Jesus Christ, our mandate is to love both Palestinians and Israelis, however, the bible does state clearly whom that land belongs to. But it doesn’t have to stop us from blessing Israel and caring for the poor and needy of the Palestinians.
We must keep a balance. What is happening in the Middle East is very complicated and deals with centuries of tribal war between two fractions of Islam (Sunnis and Shias) add Israel to the mix and you have a tinderbox. From the 14th century, Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Empire until Gen Allenby (from the British Army) drove them out in 1917. The British had mandate to rule Palestine from the League of Nations. The Balfour declaration promised by the British to support plans for a National Home for the Jewish people. This was October 1917. They were promised more land then what they have now. Add into the mix, Lawrence of Arabia, who promised the Arabs they would be favoured far more land if they help British fight the Turks during the First World War. In which, they did help fight the Turks. The promise was very ambiguous however; it didn’t stop the Arabs claim that the British would give them the land. Two promises made to both the Jews and Arabs AND that is where the problem lies. It is a mess the West has created and now we are trying to divide the land for the sake of Peace, at any cost. I don’t approve of this so-called Peace Process especially the meeting coming up in November. However, it is written in our bibles that this Peace Process has to happen for the man of sin shows up thus will put forth into motion for the Prince of Peace to come…but remember what Paul said:

“For you, yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say “ Peace and safety! Then sudden destruction comes upon them as labour pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.” 1 Thess 4 v 3

At the end of the day, man’s own devices are what brought the crisis to the Middle East as we see to today. Only God’s way knows how to bring true peace to that region area. The best I can do for both…is to pray for God’s peace to come into that region.
 
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Micah68

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Yes, we should care for both Israelis and Palestinians. However….True peace will not come until the Prince of Peace comes back. Man’s peace always causes wars by compromises and manipulations and at times at a price, someone always loses out. As a follower of Jesus Christ, our mandate is to love both Palestinians and Israelis, however, the bible does state clearly whom that land belongs to. But it doesn’t have to stop us from blessing Israel and caring for the poor and needy of the Palestinians.
We must keep a balance. What is happening in the Middle East is very complicated and deals with centuries of tribal war between two fractions of Islam (Sunnis and Shias) add Israel to the mix and you have a tinderbox. From the 14th century, Palestine was ruled by the Ottoman Empire until Gen Allenby (from the British Army) drove them out in 1917. The British had mandate to rule Palestine from the League of Nations. The Balfour declaration promised by the British to support plans for a National Home for the Jewish people. This was October 1917. They were promised more land then what they have now. Add into the mix, Lawrence of Arabia, who promised the Arabs they would be favoured far more land if they help British fight the Turks during the First World War. In which, they did help fight the Turks. The promise was very ambiguous however; it didn’t stop the Arabs claim that the British would give them the land. Two promises made to both the Jews and Arabs AND that is where the problem lies. It is a mess the West has created and now we are trying to divide the land for the sake of Peace, at any cost. I don’t approve of this so-called Peace Process especially the meeting coming up in November. However, it is written in our bibles that this Peace Process has to happen for the man of sin shows up thus will put forth into motion for the Prince of Peace to come…but remember what Paul said:

“For you, yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say “ Peace and safety! Then sudden destruction comes upon them as labour pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape.” 1 Thess 4 v 3

At the end of the day, man’s own devices are what brought the crisis to the Middle East as we see to today. Only God’s way knows how to bring true peace to that region area. The best I can do for both…is to pray for God’s peace to come into that region.


I find it so disturbing that God is not recognized as the true owner of the land and we being only its tenets. The Yes, the Covenant made with Abraham (pre-Children) was and everlasting covenant BASED on Abraham's FAITHFULNESS. FAITHFULNESS ALWAYS being the key to retaining or settling on the land. AS CHRISTIANS we believe in the NEW Covenant which is greater than and superceeds all old covenat as it was SEALED with Our Christ's own spilled BLOOD. The old is now obsolete. God does not bless to those who support injustice..... There has never been a period in history that Israel was EVER above the law. Even in the OT times when Israel possessed the land they were commanded to live in peace with their neighbors being God's messengers. There is NOTHING Biblical about the Secular Modern day State of Israel. AS CHRISTIANS WE HAVE ALREADY RECIEVED OUR BLESSINGTHROUGH ISRAEL IN JESUS CHRIST, as Christians this should be all we need.


Heb 8:13When he speaks of a new covenant, 1 he makes the first obsolete. Now what is growing obsolete and aging is about to disappear. 2
Heb 9:15And so he is the mediator 1 of a new covenant, so that those who are called may receive the eternal inheritance he has promised, 2 since he died 3 to set them free from the violations committed under the first covenant.
Heb 12:24and to Jesus, the mediator 1 of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks of something better than Abel’s does. 2

Rom 4:12And he is also the father of the circumcised, 1 who are not only circumcised, but who also walk in the footsteps of the faith that our father Abraham possessed when he was still uncircumcised. 2
Rom 4:16For this reason it is by faith so that it may be by grace, 1 with the result that the promise may be certain to all the descendants – not only to those who are under the law, but also to those who have the faith of Abraham, 2 who is the father of us all
Gal 3:8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, proclaimed the gospel to Abraham ahead of time, 1 saying, “All the nations 2 will be blessed in you.” 3
Gal 3:14in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, 1 so that we could receive the promise of the Spirit by faith.
 
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Psalms 119 v 105

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I know that God is the true owner of the land but he can also give that land to anyone he pleases whether our human fairness and sensibilities agree with it or not. God has never replaced Israel.

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets, I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will be no means pass away from the laws till all be fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven” Matthew 5 verses 17-20 (NKJV)

I don't believe in the replacement theology that has been taught to me. From what I know, us, Gentiles are grafted into the olive branch and the vines not the other way around. As far as I am concerned, God's word never became obsolete and discarded. Before you point out to me regarding the Grace vs the law...yes, Jesus is the way, the truth and light. Nothing I do can save myself... but through his blood that he shed for me. However...."In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." John 1 v 1-3...Jesus came to expound on the word because he was there when it was written...He fulfilled the sacrificial laws, he became our compassionate high priest...our mediator between God and Man like the Levi priests used to do. He fulfilled our Passover (becoming our Passover Lamb), our Shavuot or Pentecost (the release of the Holy Spirit promised)...however, what has not been fulfilled is the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles. He fulfilled the prophecies of the prophets of his coming. The whole entire OT is about his coming. I used to believe the OT was done away with and that Jesus made two new commandments to replace the old one. After praying about it, this is what God spoke to me in my heart regarding this statement that many have used to say the OT Law was dead.

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it “You shall love your neighbour as yourself. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it “You shall love your neighbour as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and prophets. " Matthew 22 verses 36-40

Jesus EXPOUNDED ON GOD’S WORD, he never added or taken away…he basically put it in simple terms. This is what Holy Spirit said to my heart.

Love the father, our God, with all heart, soul and mind. This is the first and great commandment.

If you love God then…
o You will have no other gods before me (idolatry)
o Make a unto yourself any grave image
o Take the name of the Lord your God in vain
o Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. (for he created it)

o Honour your mother and father (for he is our father)

Love your neighbour as your self.
If you love your neighbour…
o You will not kill
o You will not commit adultery
o You will not steal
o You will not bare false witness (or lie)
o You will not covet

Jesus states if you break one of these commandments you are guilty of breaking them all. Think about it. If a person covets their neighbours house because they live a lavishly lifestyle, most likely the person who is envious are willing to steal, lie or kill to get it that similar lifestyle.


There are so many scriptures that point that the OT and its laws are not dead. Some have been fulfilled but not all yet...

"And becauselawlessness will abound the love of many will grow cold but he who endures to the end shall be saved" Matthew 24 verses 12-13

What was Jesus talking about lawlessness? Breaking man's law like a traffic ticket or perhaps breaking God's law? If the law is done away with...and we are born sinners then how do we know if were sinners in the first place? By getting a traffic ticket (mankind’s laws)? Or breaking God’s laws?

“Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the followed, which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” Revelation 12 verses 13-17.

Why did the angel tell John that those saints kept both commandments of God and have the testimony of JesusChrist?

But as far as your thread is concerned whether or not there is new or old this or that doesn't matter...the fact is this conflict in a nutshell is based on promises made by the west to both Arabs and Jews...and now both sides suffer....not just one side. For they both do not know peace. My original statement was not to justify any side...but to tell people to put their trust in God and his will. For most men, think they know the answer to create true peace when we are all by nature sinful.
 
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Micah68

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I know that God is the true owner of the land but he can also give that land to anyone he pleases whether our human fairness and sensibilities agree with it or not. God has never replaced Israel.

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets, I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will be no means pass away from the laws till all be fulfilled. Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means enter the kingdom of heaven” Matthew 5 verses 17-20 (NKJV)

I don't believe in the replacement theology that has been taught to me. From what I know, us, Gentiles are grafted into the olive branch and the vines not the other way around. As far as I am concerned, God's word never became obsolete and discarded. Before you point out to me regarding the Grace vs the law...yes, Jesus is the way, the truth and light. Nothing I do can save myself... but through his blood that he shed for me. However...."In the Beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made." John 1 v 1-3...Jesus came to expound on the word because he was there when it was written...He fulfilled the sacrificial laws, he became our compassionate high priest...our mediator between God and Man like the Levi priests used to do. He fulfilled our Passover (becoming our Passover Lamb), our Shavuot or Pentecost (the release of the Holy Spirit promised)...however, what has not been fulfilled is the Day of Atonement and the Feast of Tabernacles. He fulfilled the prophecies of the prophets of his coming. The whole entire OT is about his coming. I used to believe the OT was done away with and that Jesus made two new commandments to replace the old one. After praying about it, this is what God spoke to me in my heart regarding this statement that many have used to say the OT Law was dead.

“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it “You shall love your neighbour as yourself. “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?” Jesus said to him “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and all your mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it “You shall love your neighbour as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and prophets. " Matthew 22 verses 36-40

Jesus EXPOUNDED ON GOD’S WORD, he never added or taken away…he basically put it in simple terms. This is what Holy Spirit said to my heart.

Love the father, our God, with all heart, soul and mind. This is the first and great commandment.
If you love God then…
o You will have no other gods before me (idolatry)
o Make a unto yourself any grave image
o Take the name of the Lord your God in vain
o Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. (for he created it)

o Honour your mother and father (for he is our father)

Love your neighbour as your self.
If you love your neighbour…
o You will not kill
o You will not commit adultery
o You will not steal
o You will not bare false witness (or lie)
o You will not covet

Jesus states if you break one of these commandments you are guilty of breaking them all. Think about it. If a person covets their neighbours house because they live a lavishly lifestyle, most likely the person who is envious are willing to steal, lie or kill to get it that similar lifestyle.

There are so many scriptures that point that the OT and its laws are not dead. Some have been fulfilled but not all yet...

"And becauselawlessness will abound the love of many will grow cold but he who endures to the end shall be saved" Matthew 24 verses 12-13

What was Jesus talking about lawlessness? Breaking man's law like a traffic ticket or perhaps breaking God's law? If the law is done away with...and we are born sinners then how do we know if were sinners in the first place? By getting a traffic ticket (mankind’s laws)? Or breaking God’s laws?

“Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. But the earth helped the woman and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the followed, which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” Revelation 12 verses 13-17.

Why did the angel tell John that those saints kept both commandments of God and have the testimony of JesusChrist?

But as far as your thread is concerned whether or not there is new or old this or that doesn't matter...the fact is this conflict in a nutshell is based on promises made by the west to both Arabs and Jews...and now both sides suffer....not just one side. For they both do not know peace. My original statement was not to justify any side...but to tell people to put their trust in God and his will. For most men, think they know the answer to create true peace when we are all by nature sinful.

I find great harm in the teaching that the New Covenant sealed by Christ's blood is 'replacement theology':scratch: which is a lexicon used a lot by dispensationalist. Christ repeatedly said unless one had the faith (not religion) of Abraham then they were children of Satan and not God. Those who rejected Christ are no longer included in the promise.

Matt. 3:7 But when he saw many Pharisees 10 and Sadducees 11 coming to his baptism, he said to them, “You offspring of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 3:8 Therefore produce fruit 12 that proves your 13 repentance, 3:9 and don’t think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ For I tell you that God can raise up children for Abraham from these stones! 3:10 Even now the ax is laid at 14 the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

The NT repudiates the nother that the Jewish people continue to enjoy a special status or relationship with God, apart from faith in Jesus Christ. 'Choosenness' is the gift of God's grace in Jesus Christ to all who trust in him, regardless of their of racial origins.

Eph. 1:11 In Christ 28 we too have been claimed as God’s own possession, 29 since we were predestined according to the one purpose of him who accomplishes all things according to the counsel of his will 1:12 so that we, who were the first to set our hope 30 on Christ, 31 would be to the praise of his glory. 1:13 And when 32 you heard the word of truth (the gospel of your salvation) – when you believed in Christ 33 – you were marked with the seal 34 of the promised Holy Spirit, 35 1:14 who is the down payment 36 of our inheritance, until the redemption of God’s own possession, 37 to the praise of his glory.

Col. 3:11 Here there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave 8 or free, but Christ is all and in all.
3:12 Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with a heart of mercy, 9 kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience, 3:13 bearing with one another and forgiving 10 one another, if someone happens to have 11 a complaint against anyone else. Just as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also forgive others. 12 3:14 And to all these 13 virtues 14 add 15 love, which is the perfect bond. 16 3:15 Let the peace of Christ be in control in your heart (for you were in fact called as one body 17 to this peace), and be thankful. 3:16 Let the word of Christ 18 dwell in you richly, teaching and exhorting one another with all wisdom, singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, all with grace 19 in your hearts to God. 3:17 And whatever you do in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.


The term 'choosen' is never used in the New Testement exclusively of the Jewish people.
 
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